I have a battle I'd like some advice on.

Year=160. We've downgraded the Selt PH-1's to PH'2's to reflect appropriate Middle Years era capabilities. They do NOT have Tbombs or Suicide Shuttles but we've given them Wild Weasals. No other changes.
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My forces:
x1 Fed Base Station
x1 Fed DHD Deckhouse Destroyer
x2 Hydran Grenadier Carrier (each with x10 ST-1)
x1 Hydran SAR Frigate Leader (already taken damage)

My opponent's forces:
x1 Selt BT Battle Tug (PH-2's replace PH-1's)
x1 Selt CA Heavy Cruiser (PH-2's replace PH-1's)
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His two ships are about 70 hexes from my base and the two Training Carriers w/Stinger-1's

My DHD and SAR are near his two ships but are separated from each other by about 28 hexes or so. His selt's are between the two (closer to & facing the SAR).
My Saracen FFL is about 14 hexes in front of his two ships and already has a downed #4 shield and taken about 12 or so internals. It is the end of the turn and I was running under Erratic Maneuvers til the last pulse.
My DHD has lost most of it's #6 shield. It will have it's Photons rearmed this next turn and is facing the Selt's

Assuming that my SAR survives the expected alpha strike they are sure to dish out. it MIGHT have enough Warp to disengage by acceleration but will undoubtedly be too gutted to bother leaving it in the battle. It has lost two Warp already thereby preventing me from performing Erratic Maneuvers next turn if I also wish to Disengage by Acceleration. Seeing as it is too far from my base to benefit from loaned EW or any other support. I expect that it won't have a chance to get back to the base before being destroyed. (unless there is some miracle).

Overall considerations...
My two Training Carriers are next to useless as ships. Their 20 Stingers are standard Stinger-1's meaning they ONLY have two PH-3's and two Fusions each and are speed-12. It's Y-160 so I have no Augmentation Modules on the base. For those of you who don't know the DHD. It's a built up Fed DD and is basically about the same as an NCL (but with less warp).

Since this is an ongoing campaign game, losing ships is a choice I want to avoid if at all possible.

Anyone have suggestions for me?

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 02:41 am: Edit

Rus, can you get your ships to the BS? Even with no augmentation modules, the BS offers a considerable amount of repair, weapons, and EW capability. Considering the forces involved, I'd think you would want to circle the wagons near the base and make him deal with attacking you on the defense.

By Robert Russell Lender-Lundak (Rusman) on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Jeremy,
Thanks for replying and nice to see you.

Yes. I agree that "Circling the Wagons" might be best at this time and that the BS does offer considerable Rapair/Weapons/EW support although it offers not much of any of them in any combination. Without Power Modules ot does not have the power to do much other than one of those at a time.
My DHD could easily make it to the base if I high tail it now. But of course the SAR Frigate will doubtfully make it there. It might not even get away by acceleration. I am sort of wondering if I should announce before we begin the next turn if I am continuing EM or not. I almost wonder if it might make a difference at all.

In any case, with the available forces I have, hose two Selt ships are absolute brutes to deal with (even with PH-1's downgraded to PH-2's).
Especially that Battle Tug. Basically the Selt's have very rugged and fast ships with plenty of excess power that can fend me off while they slowly pick off my Hydran units (and even the DHD). Once that is done, the base is easy meat.

By Larry Lawhon (Larrylawhon) on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 09:50 pm: Edit

I have a Federation G rack question. I understand how to figure drone reloads/costs well enough, but when ADDs are included in the intitial rack loading to start a scenario, does that mean the first and second set of reloads for those rack spaces are also ADDs? For example, if the initial load has six ADDs, would there be six more in reload 1 plus six more in reload two, plus the eight in reload 3? This would leave a mere three total space for normal drones, all type-1. Am I reading this right or what? Not sure if this question belongs in the tactics section, but loading the G rack with ADDs is a Federation tactic I guess.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Larry,

Yes, that is exactly correct.

The third reload is always 8 ADDs no matter what.
The first and second reloads exactly replicate the starting load.

So, if your starting load is 1xtype-IF and 6xADDs, then the first and second reloads are also 1xtype-IF and 6xADDs.

Getting back to tactics, this is an incredibly reasonable Fed loadout when doing against drone heavy forces. Make that type IF drone into an ECM drone, and you are actually using a fairly standard option.

The biggest drawback to using a drone loadout (or lack of drone loadout) is that you lose the ability to use a scatter pack. But, considering your opponent likely has one or two ADD-12s anyway, this isn't a huge drawback.

On the plus side, in late war scenarios, using a 1xECM, 6xADD loadout saves points that can start to add up.

By Larry Lawhon (Larrylawhon) on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Thanks Mike.
If one was to use the 6 ADD loadout, could he also use Comm Options to buy 12 extra type-Is to use in a couple of SPs. Your drone loadout doesn't limit your ability to purchase extra drones does it?

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 12:04 am: Edit

I thought it did unless you had something like a MRS which has its own drone stores, or a similiar exception.

By Robert Russell Lender-Lundak (Rusman) on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 03:11 am: Edit

Larry,
While the second reload is normally and almost always the same as the first loadout. I am pretty sure that the reloads CAN be different so long as they are not more costly than the original loadout in the racks and so long as there is no exceeding the limits on special drones etc.

Anyone else have comments on my battle query?

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 03:28 am: Edit

Curious how you got that Saracen stuck out there as target practice. Not familiar with flying against Seltorian ships so I don't have that intuitive grasp.

The only thing I really have to add is possibly considering the chance of dropping the warp engines and going into Sublight Evasion. Comes down to luck, mostly. But it can be a way to save the hull for your campaign purposes. Course that is something that only really works if you catch it near the end of the turn, and it sounds like you just completed your turn and are starting back at the top again.

That said... I think you have the power to win the straight up fight under the shadow of the base. You have phaser-1s, a ton of Ph-3s (Don't Stinger 1s only have one, not two?) to discourage any attempts for him to get close and clobber, as well as a significant electronic warfare advantage.

By Robert Russell Lender-Lundak (Rusman) on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Jonathon,
That Sublight Evasion might just work. I hadn't even considered it. Of course with his two ships there if I fail to evade the ship is almost certain to be captured. But That is a route I believe might be my best chance of getting that ship out alive.

As to how it got out that far from the base... Well it was my fault for running out to meat him in the hopes that I got in a few shield hits and then return to the base. I completely underestimated how fast he would/could be going for the length of the turn that we engaged and I got caught too close to him.

The DHD should be able to get back to base before they pound on it too badly, but I was hoping to have both ships as they are the only things I have that can physically keep up with and take the fight TO his ships.

The x20 St-1's are Speed-12, Damage-8 and each have 2 PH-3 and 2 Fusion (each w/2 charges).

Thank you for your advice. We pick up where we left off in two days time.

By Robert Russell Lender-Lundak (Rusman) on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Well in case anyone was wondering, I got my Hydran SAR boarded by the two Selt's and was forced to self destruct to prevent its capture.

The DHD made it back to base safely and he then moved his ships to range 30 for the long term siege operation. After about ten turns of pounding, he downed the bases shield-1 and most of the shield-4.

Since he has so much power on those ships for reinforcement, my prox loads from the DHD and combined phaser fire from the two GRV's, BS and the DHD have only succeeded in bringing about half of his CA's #1 and #2 shields down and about a third of his Battle Tug's shield. That is where we left off and we should be finishing the game next monday.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 02:38 pm: Edit

You have the EW upper hand, right? You should. he should be firing against a 1 or 2 shift.

dock a ship to the base for extra power if you need it. they're just clay pigeons hanging around the base anyway.

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 08:24 pm: Edit

That's what I was thinking. At range 30, he shouldn't be hitting you. Unless you're not playing with EW or he has some very supernatural dice.

Also my Master Fighter Chart says Stingers have only one Ph-3... did they errata that somewhere? Mine just says 1x P3 FA, speed 12, damage 8, and two FA Fusions.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Agreed.

Both P-2s and PCs do 1 pt on a 1-2 at range-30. A highly doable ECM shift of 2 against (6 generated ECM + self-loaning 4 more should do it) will make it impossible for him to hit from that range. The Selt will HAVE to come to range-15 for any kind of shot.

If not playing with EW, still dock every ship that will fit and use them to power shield reinforcement

By Robert Russell Lender-Lundak (Rusman) on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Thank you all,
We are using EW and I have been powering 6 ECM (except on some turns to entice hm into firing on something else). Since I only have two channels, I can only loan to two of my 4 units. He has been running with 6 ECCM the whole time enabling his 1-2 to hit on whatever is not being loaned. The main reason he downed the Bases shield-1 is that he got lucky on a turn that he had no shift on the BS and rolled snake eyes with a Narrow Salvo for the phasers of both ships. That alone did 20 points to my shield.

With only 22 power on a BS, it cannot use both it's channels and do much else at the same time (at least not to full affect). I wish I had Power Modules. LOL

I've reluctantly held back on moving my ST-1's out to meet him due to the likleyhood that they will be shredded before they get to range. I am waiting to use them for when he eventually closes the range (which I suspect will be soon).

Well thanks again and we should be finishing the battle next Monday. I highly doubt that I can destroy one of his ships, but driving him off will allow me time to bring in more reinforcements to better defend the base for the next time he attacks. ;-)

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 05:49 am: Edit

Robert,

First off, you cannot combine two ships onto the same narrow salvo roll. You have to roll for each ship separately. [see: (E1.61)]

[If you want to get your fighters close to shoot and remain intact doing it try following this procedure]

(I'm assuming his ships are parked at speed 0 and your fighters are starting at range 31)

1) Next turn move your fighters their full movement (speed 12) this will put them close to or at range 20 by the end of the turn. (Do not cross this boundry because you will get the +4 small target bonus modifier [E1.7]. Have your fighters declare erractic manuvers on the last impulse of the turn

2) Have both of your carriers move out slowly (speed 2 or 3) to follow, staying 9-10 hexes behind their fighters. Each carrier to loan 4 ECM to their respective squadrons. This will give all your fighters 10 ECM, a guarenteed +2 shift for him to hit you, (2x ECM built-in, 4x ECM from carrier and 4x ECM(natural) from small target bonus) making his ph-2s and particle cannons useless against them.

3) If the carriers have power left (they should) make sure to give themselves 6 ECM plus up to 4 ECM from the base station, making them immune to be hit as well (continue this into next turn if possible).

4) Next turn. if he maintains speed 0, move your fighters their full movement with erratic manuvers (speed 11) moving to within range 9 or 10 by the end of the turn.

Your carriers should be matching speed with your fighters 9-10 hexes behind them. Only give 4 ECM in the beginning to each squadron, but allocate another 2 as ECCM for the end of the turn.

You cannot reach the +3 shift threshold at this point so don't bother trying (+2 ECM built-in, +4 ECM(natural) from EM and +4 ECM lent from carrier = +10 ECM). So, he has a chance to hit your fighters by only rolling "1"s. You cannot benifit by combining EM with small target modifier [See: (C10.48)]

5) Near the end of the turn when your about to reach range 10 you will have to decide on what to do from here. (The situation may be different in several ways and you will have to decide on how to adjust to it)

One example:

If he still hasn't moved and hasn't allocated at least 3 ECM to his ships, DO NOT (emphisizing, not shouting) have the fighters drop EM but add the ECCM from your carriers to negate the EM bonus (Use reserve power bringing it up to 4 ECCM if necessary if he has 2 ECM already on the target ship, you'll have to drop 2 ECM to do this). Then have half the fighters (1/2 from each squadron) fire their fusion beams at range 10 and all the fighters fire their ph-3s. Average rolling should be able to give enough damage to collapse a shield.

Next turn, have these fighters turn around and land back onto their carriers to reload while the remainder continue to pursue. The carriers should continue to follow the pursuing fighters lending EW all the way. (Keep in mind that they will soon fall outside the Base's ability to lend them ECM (range 15 max.)

[You can have the remaining fighters also fire one of their fusions beams as well insuring at doing internals to one ship, but I would rather continue on with both beams ready on each fighter]

More than likely he will be going in reverse next turn, not allowing to get the fighters close enough to hit with their fusions at close range.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 10:49 am: Edit

George,
if you read carefully what Russman said,

"The main reason he downed the Bases shield-1 is that he got lucky on a turn that he had no shift on the BS and rolled snake eyes with a Narrow Salvo for the phasers of both ships. That alone did 20 points to my shield."

Each ship narrow salvoed its phasers, so the opponant rolled two dice, one for each ship, and the result was snake eyes (which requires two dice).

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 02:16 pm: Edit

Yup. divided the defenders fall. United they stand.

By Robert Russell Lender-Lundak (Rusman) on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 08:27 pm: Edit

George,
Thank you very much for your excellent advice on getting the Fighters to close with the enemy. Although I suspect that he would begin his retrograde as soon as he see's my 20 Stinger-1's approaching. Additionally, he has the 16 shuttles from his two ships out in front of his ships by a few hexes to screen against my fighters approach. Not that they can alone be much of a deterrent to my fighters, but I can't simply wade through them unmolested and using my fighters weapons on the shuttles will mean less of a sting to the ships.

As far as them being able to down a shield at range 10ish... That is debatable with only 20 PH-3's and 40 Fusions (he has enough power to put up at least 12-16 reinfocement per ship in addition to EW and weapons). Perhaps with the weapons of my BS and Destroyer in addition I can penetrate a shield. And of course if he begins a retrograde his reinforcement will lower.
All in all, I really like your advice and will consider how and when to best employ it.

John,
You are right about being divided. While George's advice is quite sound, I must be careful not to stray too far from the base lest the unfortunate units join my Saracen in the afterlife.

Oh and BTW, The St-1's indeed have only one PH-3 each. In fact I knew that but for some reason I kept writing it as two each. ;-)