Yes, Benoit. It's legal. Command Rating isn't used.

Understand that you're also running three fleets, not just one...and the only one that matters is the one doing the Move order.

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 10:43 pm: Edit

Can Support orders move a fleet to a new zone, or only to a zone that already has a fleet in it, or attack it?

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 10:52 pm: Edit

See following post.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 11:13 pm: Edit

OK. I tried to make the Support order do something nice. It is clear that it's not working, and people are trying to loophole it into things that I never intended.

Half of you have wildly different interpretations of it. The other half haven't said anything, so I suspect they haven't read it yet.

We're closing loopholes.

You may not transfer units between fleets. Ever.

You may not split fleets. Ever.

You may only make new fleets during ship construction phases (post phase 3/6/9 etc.) All new fleets appear in a zone with a base that you control.

Scrapping still comes before construction.

You may still add ships to an existing fleet by the mechanisms in the rules: No more than 200 BPV on any construction phase, -25 BPV per zone between you and the nearest friendly base.

If you want to 'move' a ship between two fleets, here's how you do it:

1) Scrap unit X of type Y from Fleet A. This will also scrap its ATUs, COs, drone speed upgrades, and anything else on the same row in the spreadsheet I haven't named here. If I didn't specifically mention something, it's scrapped with it unless you convince me otherwise.
2) Build unit X of type Y in fleet B with the cap you freed up, limited by all the other restrictions.

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 04:14 pm: Edit

I am not sure it was a matter of trying to find 'loopholes' as much a matter of honestly missunderstanding the intent of the rules. I had a completly diffrent understanding, backed by several conversations with you, and was certain that existing fleets could be split using build orders.

Please note, I am not objecting to any of the changes, I am just asking questions to clarify, and noteing effects.

However, in the interest of getting this game rolling, and having a fun and interesting game, lets iron out the last bits, and fire it up!

The link to the Rules pdf seems to be down, or I would be cutting and pasting, I will instead be listing rule numbers.

I do not see anywhere the ability to create a new fleet out of thin air, only the ability to add to existing fleets. If we are adding that ability, is can the new fleet be at max BPV, or is there a limit? This will pretty much make rule UTF 4.132 oboslete, as it will be better to scrap a small fleet, and rebuild it anew, then to slowly add ships to it.


UTF 5.4 is gone. No transfering units.

Ship Building

UTF 4.13 - On any turn you have more CAP then fielded BPV, you can spend cap on additional units. (Any turn? Rule UTF 4.132 suggest adding ships only happens every 3rd turn. One of these two rules should be edited for clarity.)

UTF 4.131 - you may add (up to) 200 BPV to any fleet sitting in same zone as base. Deduct 25 BPV for each zone away.

UTF 4.132 - You can never add more BPV to an existing fleet than it already possesses. ... After the next Evaluation Phase, it could grow by x more BPV.

UTF 4.15 (Worth noting that repairs, (other than a # of boxes equal to the DC rating of the ship, UTF 4.153) can only be permently repaired at a base.)

Loop hole in repairs.
If you have a damaged ship/fleet at a base, repairs will cost 10% of its BPV. Scrap in instead, and build a new ship/fleet. No 10% cost. Same with a ship with empty fighter bays/drone racks.
Scrapping ships not at bases loses their postion, but 'rebuilding' fleets at bases costs nothing.

Proposal- a cap of ~200-300 BPV on new fleets, unlimited at Home Zone.
Thus, repairs at a b


That all for me for now!

By Benoit Rheaume (Bneus) on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 08:51 am: Edit

Well I understand like this.
ONLY on turns divided by 3 is it possible to add to fleets or build new ones.

Before you build, you make sure existing fleets BPV isnt over your Navy cap. IF it is you must scrap ships.

IF you did occupy order on a turn PREVIOUS to turns divided by 3, you should have more NAVY cap hence no need to scrap ships, in most cases.

WHEN you build you can only add to existing fleets or build new ones.but only at bases or close to them, -25bpv per hex away from said base.

MAX build/add is 200 bpv per base.

SO NEW fleets cant have more than 200 bpv, unless lets say you have a BATS close to your SB then its possible to make new fleet at BATS having 375 bpv?? right.

in BETWEEN turns, any NAVY cap increase is only used for repairs or resupply.

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Rule updates concerning builds and fleets are on their way. Stand by.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 06:58 pm: Edit

I'm going to let them sit another day and give them a fresh read through. Robert has been doing yeoman work for being a first reader.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Friday, February 26, 2010 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Rules file updated.

Fleet inventories are still due on March 5th.

By Benoit Rheaume (Bneus) on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 09:05 am: Edit

OK so i was wrong, construction happens at the end of turns divided by 3.
So its really important to keep or occupy on 3's.
And you can build new or add up to 700 worth of BPV in the home zone.
And you can add up to 200 to an existing fleet -25 per range with other bases.
Fleets close to many bases dont add together.

OK UTF3.171 says home zone is the only place you can build new fleets.
but
UTF4.12 ...or build new fleets in a "zone with a base"...
UTF4.13 ...If they’re going to appear in a new fleet, that new fleet must be in a "zone with a base"...

Maybe you should change "zone with a base" to "Home zone".

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 11:08 am: Edit

Both have been changed to "In a home zone". Note that controlling someone else's home zone means that you can build fleets in two locations.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Because Robert selected ISC before the rule was in place:

(UTF4.3222) ISC and NeoTholian ships never get the discount.

is suspended for this instance of the campaign.

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Two more days to get fleets in!
Mine are almost done!
Can't wait to get this thing rolling...

By Benoit Rheaume (Bneus) on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Sent last last last draft of my starting fleets...
also sent moves for T1.

Id like to say "goodluck to you all" but NAH

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Ken Apel sent in a fleet draft that I need to look over for formatting issues.

Mike Baima is going to have to withdraw from the campaign due to health reasons. I will build a Federation/Baduvai fleet.

If nobody takes it over before the first orders are due, I'll be running the FB fleet until one of our Alts frees up.

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 02:55 pm: Edit

So, we have heard from

Tugger - ISC/Kzin
Ken Apel - Romulan/Tholians(?)
Bneus - Hydran/Pelladines

Mike/Ken B - Federation/Baduvai (NEW ADMIRAL WANTED)

Which leaves

Sky_Captain - Klingon/Tholian
Krellex - Gorn/Federation

Chime in guys! Let us know your still care!

By Fred J. Kreller (Kreller1) on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 05:41 pm: Edit

I am deep in thought about my fleet make up. :-) Actually, I am really stinking busy with work stuff, but I *will* have my builds ready by deadline! Anyone who wishes to surrender to me now, may do so. :-P

By Ken Apel (Kengulnar) on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 04:00 pm: Edit

I am using open office on my pc, the spreadsheet seemed to open up and save just fine on my end I can use another pc if its going to be an issue, but I'd rather not, hehe

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 04:34 pm: Edit

Ken, everything should work in OO Calc. While I commit atrocities in Excel on a regular basis, I'm trying hard to make sure that said atrocities in this instance remain compatible with Excel's slow open source cousin.

By Fred J. Kreller (Kreller1) on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 05:26 pm: Edit

One minor note on the Starbase BPV on the spreadsheet. Mine kept showing up as 540 bpv until I put a year AFTER 164 in there. If you leave it blank for YIS it will discount the base, which is nice but still naughty :-)
Just an FYI

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Thanks. There's also a glitch on the user input page where it disagrees with the requirements for SC4 and SC3 units. I will fix that for all sheets before sending them back out this weekend.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 09:26 pm: Edit

Robert found a rules discrepancy - a carrier in an adjacent zone or in the same zone as a base gets two turns of fighter replenishment, not 'full replenishment' - just like a drone ship does.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:34 am: Edit

When entering your ship's BPV in column K, put the price of the ship with NO REFITs there, and put the Refits in the upgrade section.

Yes, this undercuts the discount a bit. Whine me a river.

I have made a FedBad fleet. I haven't heard from Roger.

By Peter Thoenen (Eol) on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 02:27 am: Edit

- OO3 can open xlsx but not save them.

- Ken could always save the xlsx in OO3 format in Office 2007 just for Ken ;) (http://www.sun.com/software/star/odf_plugin/get.jsp) (OO3 plugin for Office 2K7)

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 11:33 am: Edit

I distribute the sheet in *.xls format which is readable by both.