Archive through June 01, 2010
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
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Y3 Proposal: The Tellarites:
Archive through June 01, 2010
4 damage for 9 energy is OK if you're sure of hitting, but I imagine that's not what you mean.
I tried making a consolidated table for all 3 sizes but it doesn't really work, so you end up with 3 damage tables to accommodate the arming levels. It could be that a downfired heavy has the same range as a full heavy but does less damage, which may simplify the tables a bit.
Where's the CA SSD?
Sorry, meant to do this last night. Here is my attempt at a Tellarite WCA.
BTW, I know it will look bigger than you expect. However, much of that "bulk" is because of the armor. Ignore the armor, and it is close to other WCAs. Also, I left the photon weapon chart on the SSD because I was too lazy to build a new weapon chart that is just gonna change. I will update it later.
Nice. I'd put the warp engines on the sides, to stop it looking like an Andro (an effect made more apparent by the thin shields).
50 armour ammo boxes is a lot. Even at 8 per turn (which is a lot in itself) that'll keep it going for more than 6 turns.
Comparing the armour repair (2xDC per turn for no power) to normal shield repair (DC/2 per turn for 2 power per box) gives the Tellarite a big advantage, especially if he can keep the range open. It's not quite another 50 internals, but close. A W-era ship has no power to spare, so his opponent won't be repairing shields at anything like that rate, if at all.
So I'd reduce the armour repair rate to DC/2 (same as shields) for no power, with something like 10 ammo (that'll last until turn 6 or later).
Any particular reason for the twin probes?
I agree with the reduced repair schedule. That will work for me.
The twin probes was just cause it had open space there. I can always cut it back to just one.
I didn't put the engines on the side, as it is already almost too wide. Besides, it is more meant to "presage" the Federation saucers (even though it is technically a sphere, not a saucer).
Yeah, if the Tellarites ever really do get published (in Y3, or, more likely, a CapLog), it's almost certain they will use the (bleh) photon. So there isn't much point in detailing the 'Blast Cannon'.
If you Google 'Daedelus-class starship' on almost any trek site, you should find out what the ship should look like.
Instead of 2 probes, you could make them RF+R/LF+L photons, delete the HBC's, and stick a probe launcher in there somewhere....
Agreed that if it gets 'free' (ie, no power cost) armor repairs, the repair capacity should be limited. Alot.
Otherwise...cool SSD, Mike. Thanks!
www.starfleet-museum.org.
Right there on the front page.
Plus, awesome site.
OK, I changed it.
It now just uses photons with LF+L and RF+R.
I knocked it down to a single probe.
It only has 12 boxes of armor repair. I did 12 instead of 10, so that it can work with either repairing half of damage control, or all of damage control.
I do suppose I could reduce the #4 (and maybe the #1) armor banks down to 8, instead of 10 ...
Just a thought (to necro-post this thread)...
...why not plasma? The original F-torp (that you had to hold) wasn't that great a weapon. The Federation later bought an updated version from the Gorn...but if at least one Fed race had experimented with the idea in the past, that might have made the decision easier. (And perhaps the Tellarites had nagged all along to pick up plasma technology again, as it was an old favorite of theirs...and they love their tradition...which is why the Fed plasma ships happened at ALL instead of just doing the drone refits to all overly-photoned ships).
...or as a B plan...why not atomic missiles (of the type the Gorn used for so very long)? Again with their tradition of being slow to change, it would make sense that they would have kept using this weapon well past its prime.
No plasma, as they would have been able to develop it as the Gorns and Romulans did. I will leave it to the reader to decide if photons + Pl-F on all of their ships would be a good idea. The fact that it didn't happen shows the Feds never had plasma prior to the Gorns giving it to them.
They already had atomic missiles and moved past them. The missiles the Gorns had were crap compared to the Andorian drones. If more Fed races were going to be drone chuckers, they would have at least used Andorian drones, not atomic missiles. (And let's not forget that Andorian drones suck, too.)
It would seem that the Federation national races all had sucky weapons that were superseded by the photon. (The Andorian drones were superseded, too. It is just that the Andorians were more stubborn than the others.) I really don't see that changing, unfortunately.
Quite frankly, if I was going to use a different weapon, I would just use the proton torpedo from P6. It fits in the progression that would lead to photons, and is an obviously inferior weapon. (Same bad to-hit; no crunch.) If we get to do the Tellarites, I hope protons would be used. I still expect it to be photons, however.
Quote:I still expect it to be photons, however
I'm with you that this would be disappointing. While I'm not a fan of adding new weapons for new weapons sake, more variety in the Early Years period is MOST welcome.
(I don't suppose we could make a "parallel development" case for any of the other EY weapons - Nova Cannon, maybe?)
Quote:No plasma, as they would have been able to develop it as the Gorns and Romulans did.
Well, Gorn, Romulans, and ISC developed it - the "Eastern" races. Maybe the Tellarites were in the 'Eastern' region of the Federation? As an alternative - we know (from the Romulan history) that "bolted plasma" preceded launched plasma. Perhaps the Tellarites got no farther in plasma development than the pay-to-hold, bolted-F-torp, and gave up on the technology as a 'dead end'?
Hey, if you can convince Petrick, go for it. I am just saying that in previous efforts like this, I really don't expect it to go far. Even the F-torp bolt is useful, and you will need to explain why they didn't continue research on it, especially in Y88 when they see what the Romulans can finally do with it.
Look at the drones. They dropped drones because speed 8 (and 12) drones are fairly pointless, especially when the photons work well. However, the moment speed 20 drones appeared, they pulled all of the back on line and were up to speed in no time.
So, if they had the nascent range 5 Pl-F bolts, you are gonna have to come up with a reason that they don't immediately pull the technology off the shelf and quickly catch up when they see the Romulans use it. Y-era ships with both photons and Pl-F could be extremely powerful.
And why wouldn't they make Pl-G, too? Apparently, Pl-F and Pl-G are linked at the hips, and if you get one you get both. (Having only Pl-F instead of both makes sense if it is purchased tech. If it is developed tech, it no longer makes as much sense.)
Also, you need to explain why they lost the tech so badly that they had to buy it from the Gorns. Sure, they would likely have been dependent on the Gorns for the Carronnade, but that doesn't explain why they would buy the whole technology.
Really, I am not trying to be a killjoy (though I appear to be doing a good job 
). I am just saying that there are tremendous background problems with having the Federation have access to range 5 plasma bolts, then suddenly losing it completely. If it is going to happen, those problems have to be addressed such that they pass the "Petrick test". That will be a very difficult thing. (I think my my proton torpedo windmill is much more attainable. And I don't expect that to happen, either.)
Quote:So, if they had the nascent range 5 Pl-F bolts, you are gonna have to come up with a reason that they don't immediately pull the technology off the shelf and quickly catch up when they see the Romulans use it. Y-era ships with both photons and Pl-F could be extremely powerful.
Well, based on the description Module Y1, the Romulans had range-5 bolting Warbirds by Y66, and did not have the weapon launchable until Y88 (which appeared to be a surprise to the Gorn) - 22 years. Remembering that the first Federation-Romulan War was in Y40 (using nukes and lasers by the SFU timeline), so the Federation won't get to actually see launchable plasma until either Y154 (second Federation-Romulan War...and I think we all recall how big a surprise it was to a certain cruiser crew that you could launch the thing) or Y157 (Gorn contact)...see timeline for references.
Assuming that the Tellarites finally realized at that point what they had, but lost, and started development on it RIGHT THEN...22 years from Y154 puts the final product at Y176. Why bother, when they had been equipping purchased plasma weapons from the Gorn for 10 years at that point? (IE., maybe they DID resume research at that point - but the Gorn offered to sell the technology outright to the Federation a decade before the research was projected to return any results) And it's not like the photon torpedo wasn't completely ubiquitous in Federation service, ANYWAY, by then - research into overloads of that weapon, proximity fuse modes, etc - would surely have consumed most weapon development in the intervening years.
Given how late in the SFU history the Federation actually encountered seeking plasma to "know" it was possible, and how early the photon torpedo was being implemented fleet-wide...I think the timeline would actually work.
Like I said, sell Petrick on it, not me.
Of course, that even begs the question of whether there would ever be any Tellarite national ships in the first place ...
I can think of 2 reasons that a bolt only plas-F didn't get pulled out for more research.
First is space. Perhaps the Y pre-Fed version took more 'spaces' compared to the Romulan version.
Second (and more documentable) is firing arc. The Fed F PlasTorps come pretty late, only after the Gorns supply the tech. Maybe the pre-Feds and Feds couldn't crack the tech of non fixed launchers (or firing chambers as they were bolt weapons).
Put both of those together and add in that the development of the type IV drone gave the Fed a cheap, albeit not as fast, but longer range and duration weapon that was more versatile and had a superior warhead's punch, and I can see why they never bothered developing PlasTorp tech.
RH
If your going to say the Tellarites had a crappy plasma-based weapon that got dropped in favor of photon tech, just give them the ISC Plasma Cannon from Y2.
It has the same arming cost as a photon, and pretty much sucks (unless you get REALLY CLOSE).
Tellarites dropped it when the Unified Fleet went over to all-photon, all-the-time.
Be an easier sell to Petrick, I would think.
Still hoping the Tellarites make it into Y4, since they are (obviously) not in Y3.
One word on the SSD layout - the 'big sphere' (AKA, 'the starfleetmuseum.org designs') is probably not the best way to go. First off, the SSD makes it look far too much like the GW-era Feds (also: the 'Unified Starfleet' Feds).
Might be more worthwhile to take a look at some of the Iron Crown minis for inspiration, since there is already a LOT of crossover form their line and the W-era SFB models. (For example, this design appears to be currently unused, and would make an okay Tellarite. Or, if looking for something more blocky, this might work well).
Mr.Fulton.
The reason I wanted the ship to look like this (http://www.shapeways.com/model/92849/earth_icarus_early_cruiser.html) is because in Trek mythology the Tellarites were famous engineers and naval architects and supposedly designed the Constitution-class, starting the whole 'primary-secondary' hull idea.
So yes, Tellarite ships ARE supposed to look abit like Star Fleet ships.
Tellarite ship names?
Bacon Sammich is my nomination for the first one...
Hmmm. And, here, all this time, I thought they were just good at arguing!
Do you recall the source for that idea? (That the Tellarites designed the primary/secondary hull idea)
I seem to vaguely recall reading something like that at one point, but can't recall where, now...
In case anyone's wondering, Hahrnohk-7 (Tellar Prime) is the minor planet in hex 3706 on the Federation and Empire map - not far from Skoleos (hex 3704) or the Fed-Gorn NZ.
It's worth noting that the Federation, if the maps in Y1 and GPD4e are anything to go by, took a while to get up that way. Until the Border Declaration, that north-east area was relatively poorly settled - and even then it would have taken time for Star Fleet to secure such a swath of territory.
Plus, GPD4e indicates that the Tellarites are an associate member only - not a full member the way, say, the Andorians are. While there would be a number of Tellarites in Star Fleet service, the government itself seems to be at something of a remove from the federal institutions.
Unless any of this is superseded by info in PD Federation, the Tellarites may not even have made contact with the Federation early enough to have had an impact on the unified fleet's hull designs, even if their ships end up looking spherical or not.
Hmmm. That positioning would certainly back up my earlier argument for giving them a plasma-like weapon...they are in the right part of the galaxy for it.
'Plus, GPD4e indicates that the Tellarites are an associate member only - not a full member the way, say, the Andorians are. While there would be a number of Tellarites in Star Fleet service, the government itself seems to be at something of a remove from the federal institutions.'