Currently, the Federation has some plasma variants of their ships. I believe they are: DNP, BCP, NCP, DDL, FFL. These ships, except for the BCP, had long been afterthoughts in the game. Until the carronade was introduced. Now they are very popular ships, especially in Federation Commander. To the point that there are people begging for more.

The main "missing" ships are ones based on the CA, NCL, and DW. Since the NCP, DDL, and FFL all simply swap out two photons for two Pl-F, I assume these three would follow the same model. (Though, just to be different, perhaps the DW would replace all three photons with Pl-F.) These are all ridiculously obvious designs.

Anyway, since these three ships are frequently being requested for Federation Commander, I wanted to make the request here: Can we please have Pl-F variants of the CA, NCL, and DW? Oh, heck, I know it will eventually be asked for, too, so how about a BB with Pl-F, too?

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 04:21 pm: Edit

A Fed BB that replaces all 10 photons with 10 Pl-F, sounds workable to me. ;)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Ten type R plasma torpedos might be even more fun!

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 04:40 pm: Edit

A 3F DW has possibilities but IMO a 2F 1Photon is the superior ship. In a duel situation I would be a bit more inclined to give it to the F. But once squadron level is reached then I would much rather deploy Photons since they are infinitely more useful at r16 than a F torp that runs out of gas at 15. Not to mention EVERY Photon from a lowly POL to the BB can reach the same range (or greater if an X ship) something no Disr/Plasma fleet can claim.

Thats why I would never deploy F based NCL/CA's. I do agree that the the NCL needs a F version since there is a NCA so it would fill in a hole but thats it.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Do note that I am not saying whether these ships would be useful. Simply that there are people asking for them. Ergo, I make this request in order to either 1) help get them done or 2) be able to say they won't ever get done.

Jokes aside, I assume that any BBP variant would replace 2-4 drones with Pl-F, them move them to the front of the rear hull. Pretty much inline with the DNP and BCP.

At the very least the NCL and DW variants should be done.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 05:21 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

DNP, BCP, NCP, DDL, FFL

---

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 06:48 pm: Edit

OK, you are correct. My bad. However, the request is still clear.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 08:27 pm: Edit

The BBF would most logically follow the pattern of the BCF relative to the BCJ, converting the two rear hull FA photons into FP plasma-Fs. (I might go so far as to suggest you could fit 3 FP plasma-Fs on that rear hull). Biggest question is what you'd do with the RA-firing photons.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 09:17 pm: Edit

Make them F-torps for both power and tactical reasons. Nothing says "don't get behind me" like plasma and Powering 6 photons down from 10 would give the ship a bot more pep.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 12:10 am: Edit

AP plasma doesn't say "don't get behind me", it says "don't chase me". Which the BB(F)'s nine drone racks can say pretty effectively, too. A photon, though, can smack somebody not chasing you who happens to slip into arc.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 12:26 am: Edit

I would expect the rear firing photon torpedoes would remain rear firing photon torpedoes on the BBF. It doesn't really make sense to replace them. As for whether it replaces two photons or three drone racks to get the FP Pl-F, I don't really care.

Again, this isn't really meant to go and design any of them. Quite frankly, I expect SPP could hammer these out in his sleep and doesn't really need any input. The point is to 1) ask for them in the first place, and 2) see if there is any reason they could not exist.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 02:13 am: Edit

The NCL and CA variants seem obvious enough. 2 Photons replaced with 2 Pl-Fs. The existance of the NCA variant pretty much defines what the NCL variant would look like.

I have always wondered what would be done in the case of Fed ships with three heavy weapons like the FFB and DW. There are really three possibilies:

- 3 Pl-F, no Photon: Basically a big brother, both in design and tactics, to the FFL. The only problem I see there is we've never see a Fed with more than 2 Pl-Fs.
- 2 Pl-Fs, 1 Photon: I wouldn't mind seeing an FFB variant like this. Other FFB variants (the FBE) retain a single photon, so it does follow something of a design trend, and the FFB is a tad lower on power than the DD or DW, so the extra low-power weapon would be of more benefit.
- 1 Pl-F, 2 Photons: The armament I'd prefer to see on a DW. The DW certainly has the power to handle two photons, and there is at least one variant of the DW that has two photons while dropping the third for other systems (the DWV). The resulting ship would have 2xPhot,1xPl-F,1xDrnG, sort of a hybrid between the older DDL and DDG.

Any of the above patterns would work for either a DWL or FBL, but I prefer the second two, with each ship getting a different arrangement, should to create different tactical opportunities.

By James Hallmark (Jhallmark) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 11:50 am: Edit

I think a 3 PL-F version should get 4 PL-F. PL-F are 2/3 space weapons while photons are one space weapons.

Although I think the Federation has some inefficiency due to using ships designed for Photons. This is why its 2 PL-F ships have 2 and not 3. My above proposal still has some inefficiency 4 PL-F = 2 2/3 weapons spaces not 3.

James

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 12:35 pm: Edit

James,

The "box size" of plasmas is very "fuzzy". When doing foreign technology, you do not necessarily get "box for box" replacement, but rather must abide by the restrictions of balance and other fudges. So, even if the DW could theoretically fit in 4xPl-F, the all-plasma version is almost guaranteed to only have 3xPl-F.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Do we really need these? I mean really? We already have F-101's and F-111's that don't even have a photon bay option, several ships without photons, and drone variants. The federation weapon is the photon and the phaser, its what defines the race. I can think of 5 to 10 federation ships that should be published before these. The foreign weapon creep needs to stop at some point.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 08:50 pm: Edit

Asking if we "really need these" is kinda pointless. Seriously. Did we really need any of the plasma variants? Did we need the HDW? NCA variants? (Or the NCA?) Heavy War Cruisers? Heavy Command Cruisers? Or any of the the half-step variants? Probably not.

However, there are people who, for whatever reason, really, really like the Federation Pl-F variants. I am asking on their behalf. To be honest, if the only variant was the BCF and DNF, I wouldn't have mentioned this. But, the NAL, DDL, and FFL all set a precident that heavily implies that there should, at least, be an NCL and DW variant, too.

In other words, the cat is already out of the bag. I am just asking for the rest. (Namely the NCL version and the DW version.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 09:08 pm: Edit

If any empire would have some veriety in weapons it would be the Federation. It seems to me that if it is in any empires nature to use foreign technology where it is practical it would be the capitolist Federation.

So the above post has me wondering, would there have been any experimenting with Pl-F pods mounted in F101 and F111 bays with help from the Gorns... who, by conincidence, already developed the technology for their versions of those fighters.

I think it would be kind of fun to allow Feds to buy a limited number of Pl-F pods for those fighters (OK, force a turn/deck crew action to change the control program in the bay while it is loading and one to change it back to standard control.)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Might have gotten some plasma D launch tubes from the Gorns for evaluation purposes... not sure that if the Feds had the ability to use plasma D, they wouldnt have stopped using type VI drones altogether...

By John Pepper (Akula) on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 11:53 pm: Edit

Mike: Why the DW? The DDL is on the DD platform.

Loren: I sure hope we get bay launched Photons before we get bay launched Pl-F.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 09:36 am: Edit

---

Quote:

Mike: Why the DW? The DDL is on the DD platform.

---

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 11:48 am: Edit

I don't know. But then maybe what is more possible is Pl-Ds since they opperate most like drones.

Anyway, just musing.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Pl-Ds are a total non-starter. For three huge reasons.

1) Pl-Ds are not that common and not used that way. Even the empires that can use them as much as they want don't use them that way. Remember, there is no Gorn "D" refit; only the "F" refit. They are pretty much only used on escorts or super-huge ships that "need" more weapons, but can't justify yet another pair of Pl-F. (The sole exceptions being the KRC and KDR, which are fairly unique designs.)

2) Feds don't appear to have Pl-D technology. Just like they don't have Pl-G or Pl-S technology. The only plasma technology they have available for use on warships is the Pl-F.

3) People want these ships for one reason and one reason only: carronade. You don't get carronade with Pl-D. You only get it with Pl-F.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 01:51 pm: Edit

I was saying Pl-Ds for F111.

Anyway, that's a side track. Sorry. Just someone said somehing above and it got me thinking.

Carry on.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Ah. I see. My totally unsolicited opinion on Federation plasma fighters: Why?

It is a generally accepted fact that plasma fighters suck and drone fighters rock. Why would you ever make the switch? It makes no sense.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Well, because the F111/F101 would have both. The plasma would only be in the bay. F-torps are nasty weapons vs other fighters and are pretty effective against PFs, a common opponant.

Plasma-Ds are warp seekers, IIRC. Could be effective against cloak.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 07:53 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

Plasma-Ds are warp seekers, IIRC

---

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 09:11 pm: Edit

Yeah, that's right. My goof.