A few notes on ships not used in R9

Kzinti armored cruiser
Lyran flying tiger, ACS, NCV
Romulan SUU
Crawford Condor-3R
Klingon DV7 (Orsini)
Fed DN (New Jersey)
Klingon B10H

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 02:03 pm: Edit

From R11:

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Quote:

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 09:29 am: Edit


The Ships of SFT-34
BATTLE EAGLE MEDIUM CARRIER (BEV)
BATTLEHAWK-B DESTROYER LEADER (BHB)
KING FALCON HEAVY MAULER (HFA)
SCREECH OWL HEAVY SCOUT (HSC)
SNIPE-C BATTLE FRIGATE LEADER (SNC)

Race: Romulan
Time period: Varies (Y169-Y174)
Base hull: KE, BH, SN
Mission: THE ANCIENT WINGS ADVANCED ROMULAN EAGLE-CLASS DESIGNS OF THE GENERAL WAR

The shipyard (and great houses) that built the original Romulan ships were outraged when production of new Hawk-class ships was assigned to entirely new shipyards owned by other great houses. Over the next decades, they frantically sought contracts for continued production of their designs.

*** I've always liked the ships of this particular SFT issue and felt they were deserving of being added as "real" ships. I've seen some of these used in campaign battles and they seem well balanced and I think they would be an interesting, if minor, addition to the game. Some, like the SNC and BHB, might fit better in R12 or another future module.

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By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 02:27 pm: Edit

From R11 Topic:

Tholian DW to fill the large gap in available Tholian ships (approximately 100 BPV). Possible examples:
CDW, DWVP and Jeremy's DW

The first two borrow on the HDW theme but can't quite pull it off. The 2x9-box warp engines I think of as 3x6-box warp engines (see Jeremy's design) with a little artistic license thrown in. I don't know if the engineering is possible, I just want a 100 BPV Tholian option. Some of the same design concepts made their way into the DDX.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Kzinti SRH and its evental conversion the SRP (SR based on a CV sized hull to try to equal the fed GSC and then eventually modified ot also support a PF squadron)

Great ship (better than a CVS or BCH IMHO and just plain cool. SVC and SPP already have the SSD (on graph paper)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 11:18 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: Fed NDD
Time period: Late-GW
base hull: DDX
mission: DD Replacement
basic modifications concept: Drop X-tech off a DDX
implications for F&E: Dunno

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 12:15 am: Edit

Fed NDD - There was a long discussion over the NDD here:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/12031/12736.html?1138755870

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Race: Gorn
Time Period: Late-GW
Base Hull: BDD
Mission: Heavy BDD/BDL replacement (superceeded by HDW design)
Basic Modifications: A BDD w/ an enlarged bubbles similiar to what happend to the CC->BCH. Slap on another P-1 on each, some additional Power possibly.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I suggested an SCS variant called the Area Domination Carrier (ADV). This ship has the firepower of a DNG. The space for 12 fighters is taken up by other systems.

Typs: carrier
Race: Federation
Base hull: DN
Mission: Heavy strike carrier
F&E implications: Alternate build to an SCS

http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/x1/joecarlson/FED-ADV_v4.GIF

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 07:57 pm: Edit

Romulan "Super Sparrowhawk". Swap 2xF 1xS for 2xS (LP/RP) 1xF (FP). Seeing the success of the KDR conversion, the Romulans produced one Sparrowhawk cruiser with heavy torpedoes in the wings and a single light torpedo in the center. The resulting ship was not a successful design in its intended heavy-assault role, as it lacked the power to consistently operate two heavy torpedoes. It had some success as an escort, shotgunning the heavy torpedoes or fast-loading them as lighter types, but the Romulans already had plenty of escorts.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 12:38 am: Edit

Back in 2004 I proposed the Federation GVS. Simply put it is a GSC saucer on a CVS rear hull. I have an SSD.

I think this ship would be interesting as an X-ship too.

RTN hunter. Upgraded to and X-ship it's a super RTN hunter.

By Jay K Gustafson (Jay) on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Idea Romulan Skyhawk with Wareagle body

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 06:17 pm: Edit

I seem to recall a suggestion for something like that: glue a Skyhawk boom onto a WE. But then it's even slower than a WE and the boom blocks the R-plasma.

So I'm guessing that's not what you mean. Care to elucidate?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:05 pm: Edit

Various proposals
By Trent Telenko (Ttelenko) on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 10:50 pm: Edit
Race/Empire - Kzinti
Type - CVF
Time period - Y180
base hull - CVS
mission - Fast Raiding CV
basic modifications concept -
This was mentioned in the CL 26 Kzinti CVS class article as a conjectural alternative to CVH KNS Foil. Presumably there is a SSD on file?
implications for F&E - One conjectural raiding CV counter for the Kzinti, starting Y180.
=========
By Trent Telenko (Ttelenko) on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 10:56 pm: Edit
Race/Empire - Kzinti
Type - CVLH (HVL?) [or CSVL]
Time period - Y178-180
base hull - CVL
mission - Heavy Fighter carrying version of the CVL
basic modifications concept -
It is a Kzinti CVL/HF tender with four internal and two mech linked heavy fighters.
[Alternately, (my suggestion) the four disruptors would be replaced with scout sensors for a heavy scout carrier)
implications for F&E -
An HF upgrade to the CVL that adds four fighter factors to the CVL for an 8(8H) counter. [My alternate would be a 5-8(8H) unit with 3 EWP.]
=========
By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 11:59 pm: Edit
I sure would like to see some sort of Battle Escort. Now I know that carrier escorts for non-carriers is auto reject but is there some other way to get a Battle Escort?
Suggestion:
Race: Fed (but for all races)
Time Period: Most of GW
Base Hull: DW (or DD)
Mods to Fed DW: Actually a DWD but with all G-Racks.
Mods to Fed DD: Same a DDG+ but with all G-racks.
Mission: To escort capitol ships in fleet engagements and drone-paranoid Admirals.
Seriously though, I had occasion where I would have like such a unit in my fleet. I would have used it to protect the whole fleet, actually. Hold it back and dart forward when needed to handle a particularly heavy SW wave.
Other Races: All drones using races are obvious compared to this unit. Not sure what a Plasma race version would be though. About all one could be designed for is to counter fighters. Useful in cases where a ship only fleet encounters a fighter heavy fleets but how dose one know ahead of time when that will happen?
- - - - -
SVC: Battle Escorts can go to R12 or R13. They aren't support units and we already have too many ships in here. I need to specifically note the following:
Counter-drone escort for flagship: REJECTED, breaks F&E rules.
Counter-drone ship mixed in the fleet to generally improve counter-drone defenses: Ok, so long as it never counts as creating a "group" in F&E.
=========

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:33 pm: Edit

=============
By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 01:39 am: Edit
A while back in this topic there was some discussion of building a Tholian DW with three PC warp engines (3x6=18). It was mentioned that I should review the deck plans found in CL#33 to see why such a thing would or would not work. I have now done so and the idea still seems plausible. In fact based on the complaints that were made (CL#33) about the DD’s 8-box warp design being a pain to maintain the three engine DW should actually improve maintainability.
Controversial, I understand, but when you move the Shuttle Bay from internal to external you free up enough room on the deck plans to drop in a third warp engine. Each of the warp cores is of the easier to maintain PC (6-box) type rather than the finicky DD (8-box) engine.
Now for reasons of artistic license I have chosen to display the three engines as right and left, but take my word for it: there actually are three engines.
- - - - -
SVC: Not suitable for R11. Repost in R12.
=============
By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 09:23 am: Edit
A repost of my Tholian DW designs from the original thread:
-------------------
Ok, a couple of ways to skin the "engine" cat. I took the original DW I designed and made a couple of alternate versions using "standard" engine sizes:

Eight-box engine version: Straightforward replacement of two warp with APR. Probably should have its BPV reduced by a couple points (though I didn't do so it here).

Six-box engine version: Rearranged to support three PC-sized engines. I like this version a bit more, as it maintains my original design's high warp output. The one down side is the three engine arrangement seems to have less of the DD legacy, but that may be unavoidable.
---------------------
Honestly, while I prefer my version of the DW, its more important to me that the Tholians get a ship that weighs in at around 100 BPV, even if it is conjectural. As it stands now, they do not have a good dueling opponent for the Fed DDs of various flavors, the Fed DW, the Klingon D5W or the Romulan SKA. The ship does not need to be some new addition to the historical Tholian OOB, but it would be aweful handy for all kinds of games.
- - - - -
SVC: Repost in R11.
=============

By James B. Pennington (Cutlass401) on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 02:55 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: Romulan
Type: CA
Time: Y163
Base Hull: New
Mission: Heavy Cruiser to fill the gap between the WE and VUL.

A new cruiser designed in the "style" of the WB/WE but larger with a PL-R and a PL-G mounted in the hull in a over-under arrangement and PL-Fs at the front of the warp engines without swivel mounts using 2x15 box warp engines with a MC of 1.25. Design failed-orginally designed for a MC of 1.0, only one built.

See Imperial Eagle thread in the proposal board for more details and SSD

JBP

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Tholian DW links reposted here for convenience:

Tos' Tholain DW

My 8-box engine DW

My 6-box engine DW

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 12:38 pm: Edit

I had a design for a Tholian DW that used two POLs welded together side-by-side in a similar manner to the way Tholians weld two PCs together to produce a CA. I could have sworn I had an SSD but I can't find it now. Would anyone here be willing to work up an SSD if I provided a description of the ship?

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 01:14 am: Edit

Alan, if you recall, you and I worked up an SSD awhile back. I still have several versions of it:

Version 1
Version 2
Version 3
Version 4

I persionally liked ver. 2 best.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 10:52 am: Edit

Another R12 proposal (I've posted this ship before but it has thus far not found a home. Maybe R12)...

D-8 PROTOTYPE CRUISER (D8): The D8 is an alternative design that was not selected as the Klingon War Cruiser. A single prototype was built for evaluation by the DSF. The ship used the same boom as the D-6/7 class. The wing Ph-3s did not use the Klingon wing phaser arcs (D2.32) and the ship did not have the limited Aegis rig of the D-5. The D-5's lower cost, better disruptor arcs, smaller crew requirements, limited Aegis, and better potential for future variants made it a more attractive alternative. The use of the D-boom was an attraction, but it wasn't enough to off set the advantages of the D-5 as a mass production ship. The D-8 was kept in service for a few years before finally being sold to the Romulans. It is not clear if the ship was given the K refit before it was sold. The Romulan version of the D-8, the K8R, is located below.

Designers note: I have also made a D-8 miniature.

UIM: One UIM included as standard equipment. Backups available for purchase under (S3.2).

Names: Warrior.

K8R CRUISER (K8R): The Romulans purchased the lone D-8 Prototype in Y172 and converted the ship along lines similar to the three KDR cruisers, which where received in Y174. The rear Phaser-2s were retained as in the KR, and were not upgraded to Phaser-1s. The career of this ship during the General War is unclear, but it is known that the Romulans had a difficult time maintaining the unusual design. It was eventually destroyed in a skirmish during the Romulan Civil War.

Names: Proeliator (Warrior)

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Two possible designs - I have an ongoing thread where the possibilities for each are being discussed:

------

Race/Empire - Federation
Type - CSB Heavy Strike Cruiser
Time period - Y177
base hull - CS
mission - Squadron leader/command ship
basic modifications concept - In order to provide an additional command platform for the Sixth Fleet (where the three CSs were sent prior to the GW) one of the ships was given a similar modification to its saucer as that seen on the CB, including a flag bridge and a miniature warp engine among other modifications. Only one ship initially upgraded as a proof-of-concept (the Epimetheus), possible option for future upgrades of the other two at later dates.
implications for F&E - a possible allowance for conversion of a pre-existing CS, along the lines of a CA to CB conversion (when the CB is put into F&E, that is.)

When the first CB entered service, the increased effectiveness of the class compared to its predecessors drove Star Fleet to convert several pre-existing CAs and CCs to the new class, and to use the design for newly built ships (one of which, the Vincennes, would go on to become the first Federation CX, a testament to the CB design).

For the hard-pressed Sixth Fleet, which had gathered a number of unique ship designs in the years prior to the General War, the upgraded saucer of the CB offered a possible means of maximizing the effectiveness of the three Strike Cruisers in their possession. While such a conversion might have been overlooked in peacetime, the desperate need to hold off the Romulans drove Sixth's command staff to investigate the option - and since the USS Epimetheus was in drydock being repaired, the trial conversion would not detract from the force in action on the front lines.

The refitted ship entered service in Y177, along with the first Battlecruiser sent to the Romulan front. It had increased power compared to the standard CS, was able to retain its superior phaser arcs, and despite the unorthodox nacelle structure retained a degree of stability at warp. It is unknown as of yet whether the two remaining Strike Cruisers were similarly upgraded, but given the need for improved cruiser hulls, it was not outside the realm of possibility.

------

Race/Empire - Federation
Type - CSF Fast Strike Cruiser
Time period - Y179
base hull - CS
mission - The usual CF roles
modifications - MC 1, a higher breakdown rating, CF nacelles, arrowhead forward hull, two less photon torpedoes.
basic modifications concept - A rival design to the NCF, a team of engineers proposed that one of the Strike Cruisers be extensively refitted. Too expensive to carry out, too awkward to keep stable in combat, a misuse of a CS hull, so no actual conversion (though the Daedalus would have been the ship so converted). The SSD would show what might have been.
implications for F&E - Similar to the CA to CF conversion option already in place.

Between the loss of the Stingray and Gryphon, and the entry into service of the Manta Ray, the Sixth was at a comparative disadvantage in its ability to launch deep raids into Romulan territory.

A team of engineers proposed the use of the Strike Cruiser Daedalus as an option for conversion. This would have seen the nacelles replaced with the 'fast warp' types used by the CF, and the saucer replaced with the distinctive arrowhead. Like the CF, the total firepower of the ship would have been reduced, but to the engineering team was considered to be an even trade.

Unfortunately, simulations proved that the unorthodox nacelle configuration made it prohibitively difficult to maintain a stable warp field - and even without these considerations, the refit would have been expensive and cumbersome (far more so than the CSB conversion, which was moderate in comparison). By the time the proposal reached the selection committee, the NCF design was already on the table, and the idea was quashed outright.

It is likely that the Daedalus was eventually upgraded to the CSB configuration, along with the Epimetheus - but this design shows what might have been, had the issue of stability been resolved.

------


Gary

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 02:59 pm: Edit

For the above Fed CSB:

modifications -

*Replace the two aft phaser-3s with phaser-1s,
*Replace two impulse boxes with two centre warp,
*Replace the two drone launchers with two flag bridge boxes.


Gary

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 08:38 pm: Edit

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:00 pm: Edit
Federation CFS from CL27. This was a conversion from the damaged USS Eagle.
- - - - -
SVC: Please post a reminded of this ship in the Module R12 topic.

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Race/Empire - Hydran
Type - RGN
Time period - Y159
base hull - CA
mission - Mixed-weaponry CA

Take a Ranger, replace center fighter bay with APR, replace one fusion on each side with a hellbore (same arcs).

The Hydran "Rangoon" was the first attempt at a mixed-weaponry ship. At a time when some of the Hydran admiralty were still not completely sold on the new hellbore technogy, this design appealed to some as it retained a better fighter squadron and some fusion firepower.

The design proved a failure, as it lacked the fusion firepower and durability to make traditional Ranger tactics viable, and the single hellbore on each side did not provide a decisive enveloping threat. The mixed weaponry proved too vulnerable to damage. However, this ship did demonstrate the potential of the mixed weapon design. The designers were able to address its flaws by moving up to a Command Cruiser hull, building the first Lord Marshall two years later.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Race Federation:
CA with GSC aft hull. No special sensors.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Fed CA w/ GSC hull was just an experiment that really wasn't all that well recieved. Perhaps converted back to a regular CA after a while and hull used to build the next GSC? This ship WOULD rock as an adjunct to the COV as it would have plenty of shuttles to support the landing parties.

As for the MPK the idea of a "mighty" MP diving in with its mauler just amuses me mightily.

Scotts concern is very valid, and thus I would make it a unique ship. But otherwise how can you explain the fact that the Klinks, the #2 user of drones had no DB ships? The story that it failed neatly explains the whole issue.

I have always liked the IDEA of the Hammerfield, though if such a bobtail refit was possible, surely the Orions (if they could get the engines) would have made a LOT more of these things. But the idea of specifically unique Orions (especially enforcers) is something that really appeals to me.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 04:31 pm: Edit

D4D (or actually, LD4D). As the D4D doesn't exist in the EY period, it would make more sense for any such ship to exist on a MY (i.e., speed 30) hull. Perhaps the LD5 (MY Light Cruiser D5) would be the better hull for this?

By Mike Filsinger (Growler) on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 10:42 am: Edit

OFFICIAL MENTION OF SHIP IN ANOTHER TOPIC.
#########################################
Romulan Goshawk Medium Cruiser
SFB; PROPOSALS BOARD; SHIPS; Romulan; "Romulan Goshawk Medium Cruiser"
Who proposed it, and when: Mike Filsinger, 4/8/08
Race: Romulan
Time: Approximately Y175?
Type: War Cruiser
Hull: Sparrowhawk
General outline of idea: Sparrowhawk with plasma-S replaced with two plasma-G. Essentially the antithesis of the 2xS to 1xR conversions found in heavy cruisers.
#########################################

OFFICIAL MENTION OF SHIP IN ANOTHER TOPIC.
#########################################
Gorn Medium Destroyer
SFB; PROPOSALS BOARD; SHIPS; Gorn; "Gorn Medium Destroyer"
Who proposed it, and when Mike Filsinger, 4/8/08
Race: Gorn
Time: Approximately Y175?
Type: War Cruiser
Hull: HDD
General outline of idea: HDD with plasma-S replaced with two plasma-G. Essentially the antithesis of the 2xS to 1xR conversions found in heavy cruisers.
#########################################

PER SVC DIRECTIVE, COMMENTS ON THESE SHIPS
SHOULD GO IN THEIR OWN TOPICS, NOT THIS ONE.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 12:15 pm: Edit

I want ot also resubmit another proposal from a way's back (2004) here in R12.

RACE: Federation
Ship: Galactic Strike Carrier (GVS)

GSC saucer on a CVS aft hull. No changes to either hull except to put them together. This make an AWESOME RTN hunter. The only thing it lacks is good shielding but it wouldn't surprise me if this unique ship got the XP refit to the shield... if not converted completely to and X-ship.

I have an SSD somewhere.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Might as well go ALL THE WAY Loren and use a CVB or BCV rear hull.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Michael: That wouldn't bother me. Again, I'm just keeping it simple but those hulls might well be smarter because those fighters are more important to the mission and the era. I think the SSD is the same?

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 03:03 pm: Edit

About 2 years ago I proposed "Hard-Wielded Neo-Tholians" (note spelling error) as a way for the Tholians to maximize the effectiveness of their Neo-Tholian hulls in this galaxy. The proposal generated little interest then and may similarly crash and burn this time. But if these ideas do have a place, then R12 would seem to be it. So I've reposted these (slightly cleaned up and modified) Hard-welded Neo-Tholians.

R7.R??? Hard-Welded Neo-Tholians. The “collar” was the first step in the Tholians' attempt to maximize the capabilities of their irreplaceable Neo-Tholian hulls. But the collar required mechanical linkages between the Command Module and collar and between collar and rear hull. The Tholians concluded that if they eliminated the two sets of linkages by hard-welding the Command Module, collar, and rear hull together they could free up additional volume and mass to add combat systems. This meant sacrificing the ability of the Command Modules to separate, but that capability had been developed for a different strategic situation in an entirely different galaxy and the Tholians were willing to pay that price to maximize the combat power of the hulls. Unlike the initial collar arrangement, the hard-welding of the hulls was fairly time consuming and required the ships to be brought back to a Starbase or Tholia itself. The ISC Pacification provided the breathing space the Tholians needed to be able to do this. Though the ISC had no designs on Tholian space, the Tholians could not be sure that the Seltorians would not return in greater strength, nor that the ISC would be able to hold the Klingons back indefinitely. In the event, several hard-welded hulls ended up providing valuable service against the Andromedans.

Comment – The above is my suggested Section R7 write-up describing my proposal for “hard-welded” Neo-Tholians. As indicated, these ships would appear in the late Y180s during the Pacification. The loss of separation ability does represent a reduction in flexibility, but it is sufficiently limited that I think the proposed improvements in combat capability justify it, given the Tholian’s precarious situation in this galaxy. For one thing, it takes 32 impulses before the separated Command Module can employ shields. In some circumstances, web casters might be able to block enemy fire at the Command Module during its period of vulnerability. But even when the Tholians can do this, the Command Module is underpowered, generating only 8 points of power, 2.5 of which would go for housekeeping. For both these reasons, the separation ability has limited utility in a heavy combat environment.

R7.??? Neo-Tholian Heavy Space Control Ship.
The changes to both the rear hull and the Command Module made the Neo-Tholian Space Control Ship incompatible with the collar used to convert the NDN to the NHD, even with hard-welding. The Tholians also concluded that their Space Control Ship should carry a Spider-V squadron rather than a mixed Spider-II/Spider-III squadron. Converting the Fighter bay in the rear hull to handle the heavy fighters was not a problem. But unlike the external bays on Patrol Corvette-based hulls, the external bays attached to the Command Module could not be moved or modified for heavy fighters. The Tholians solved the problem by removing the external bays and hard-welding a small collar with hanger space for two internally carried Spider-Vs. Removing the external bays made the design workable. The space freed up by removing the mechanical linkages from the Command Module also allowed the Module’s Phaser-3s to be upgraded to Phaser-1s. But the support requirements for the heavy fighters reduced the arcs from LS/RS to LF+L/RF+R. The Tholians considered the slight reduction in rearward firepower an acceptable trade-off for the increase in front and flank firepower. Status – No further production.

YIS – 189

Description – Start with the Neo-Tholian Space Control Ship. Remove the external bays from the Command Module. Convert the 8 fighter boxes in the rear hull to 4 “2-box” heavy fighters. Add a small collar with 2 additional heavy fighters, 1 hull, 1 APR (6 boxes total). Change the LS/RS ph-3s in the Command Module to LF+L/RF+R ph-1s. The standard Neo-Tholian Space Control Ship has a BPV of 260 and this ship has slightly better inherent combat power and carries a superior fighter squadron. BPV about 270?

Comment – In some ways this is the most radical of my proposed hard-welded ships as it includes heavy fighters and PFs flying from the same hull. I looked to see whether this was legal and didn’t find anything forbidding it, but I may have simply looked in the wrong place. I can’t think of any currently published ships carrying both PFs and heavy fighters however, suggesting that the Steves might be reluctant to allow this. I would submit, however, that it makes a great deal of sense for the Tholians to replace their fighters with heavy fighters on their Space Control Ship for two reasons. The first is firepower. A Spider-V squadron drastically outguns any possible Tholian single-space fighter squadron. By comparison, replacing a Klingon Z-YC squadron with a Z-HB squadron adds disruptor firepower but reduces drone firepower. For phasers, the 6 ph-2s and 6 ph-3s of the Z-HB squadron outgun the 24 ph-3s of the Z-YC squadron at ranges 3-15. But the Z-YC squadron has more phaser firepower at ranges 0-2. Neither squadron can really do much phaser damage beyond 3 hexes anyway, so at ranges where the phaser firepower is likely to make a difference, the Z-HB wins at 3 hexes but the Z-YC wins at 0-2 hexes. Also, the current Tholian single-space fighter squadron has a maximum speed with megafighters or boost packs of 28/29-hexes-moved with mid-turn speed change. A Spider-V squadron would be 30/31. The only way the Tholians can field a speed 30/31 single-space squadron would be a pure Sp-III squadron , which would have nothing but phaser-3s and also would have no EW fighter since the Tholian EW fighter is based on the Spider-II. This speed problem is something that most races don’t have to deal with. So while other races might also deploy heavy Space Control Ships that traded their fighters for heavy fighters, the exchange makes particular sense for the Tholians.

R7.??? Neo-Tholian Improved Heavy Dreadnought.
While the NHD was already near its limits, hard-welding allowed a further minor increase in performance. Status – No further production.

YIS – 187

Description – Start with the Neo-Tholian Heavy Dreadnought. Upgrade the Command Module ph-3s to ph-1s as above but do not reduce the firing arcs. Add 2 APR, 2 hull, and 1 battery. NHD BPV is 260 so this should also be about 270 I think.

Comment – If the Heavy Space Control Ship is the most radical of the hard-welded proposals, this is the most mundane. The NDN and NHD have always been well-balanced ships so this continues along in the same vein. But one minor gripe I always had with the NHD is that it got less of a firepower upgrade than other Heavy Dreadnoughts. It added 2 ph-1s (which can’t fire into the front arc) while the Fed, for example, added 2 ph-1s and 2 G-racks. The Romulan added 2 ph-1s and 2 plasma-D racks. The Lyran added 2 phaser-1s and also upgraded 2 existing ph-3s to ph-1s, and so on. It was the lesser weapons upgrade of the Neo-Tholian Heavy dreadnought that caused me to add the upgraded Command Module phasers in these hard-wielded designs.

R7.??? Neo-Tholian Battle Cruiser.
Of the 3 NCAs that survived the General War, 2 were ultimately converted to NCXs but the 3rd was too badly damaged for such a drastic conversion. Hard-wielding did allow it to be upgraded in less radical ways, however, and the resulting ship was a sufficient improvement on the NCH that it was regarded as a full BCH equivalent, except that the Command Rating remains 9 rather than 10. Status – No further production.

YIS – 187

Description – Start with the Neo-Tholian Heavy Command Cruiser. Upgrade the Command Module ph-3s to ph-1s and retain the same arcs, as for the Improved Heavy dreadnought above. Add 3 APR, 2 hull and 1 battery. Upgrade the shields to 33-27-27-27. BPV should be about 200 – see discussion below.


Comment – The Tholians don’t have a true BCH equivalent. The D/DP/DPW is often described as filling that role. But the straight D is a bit weak to really face a true BCH and the full DPW is a bit too strong. The DP with snare refit is probably the best match. But it is still a size class 2 ship. The other contender for a Tholian BCH equivalent would be the Neo-Tholian Heavy Command Cruiser. But it has a very power-hungry weapon suite and only generates 39 points of power to support it. The ship also is inferior to a true BCH in shields and internal durability. My intent with this ship was to make it an even match for a true BCH. Regarding the suggested 200 BPV – the ship is quite powerful but is still inferior to the 208 BPV DPW. It’s “natural opponent”, the C-7, is a nominal 180 BPV but that doesn’t include drone costs. Filling its racks with Type-IF drones would make the total package cost 204 points, though the exact cost would obviously vary with the exact drone load-out. I believe 204 BPV is a good ballpark figure for the C-7 in the fast drone time frame. The proposed Neo-Tholian Battle Cruiser would generate 42 points of power, plus 7 reserve power. Since the C-7 generates 44 points and has a less power-hungry weapon suite due to its drones, the C-7 must be regarded as having a better power curve. Both ships have the same total shield boxes, but the C-7 is stronger on shields 1,2, and 6, which may be regarded as the primary fighting shields. And the C-7 still has slight edge in internal durability. On the other hand, the Neo-Tholian Battle Cruiser has 2 web casters, 4 disruptors, 11 phaser-1s, and 4 phaser-3s. I regard this a weapon suite superior even to that of the C-7, the C-7’s UIM and disruptor arcs not withstanding. And the Neo-Tholian is Turn Mode-B so it has superior maneuverability to the Turn Mode-C Klingon BCH. All things considered, 200 BPV seems about right for this ship.

One last comment concerns the Status. There is a discrepancy in published material on the number of NCAs converted to NCXs. Module X1 says that only 2 of the 3 NCAs that survived the General War were in good enough shape to be converted to X-ships. Module G2 also says there were only two NCXs. But Module J2, in the description for the “Unbuilt Variant” Neo-Tholian Strike Carrier, implies that all 3 surviving NCAs were ultimately converted to NCXs. The proposed R7 write-up for this ship assumes X1 and G2 are correct. But if J2 is correct the R7 write-up would have to be changed and the ship Status would be Unbuilt Variant.

Last One:

R7.??? Neo-Tholian Strike Cruiser.
The Neo-Tholian Medium Cruiser took the basic NCL design to the limit in terms of firepower. The Tholians feared that upgrading the Command Module ph-3s, as was done on the other hard-wielded designs, would push the ship over that limit. They also determined that the NCL/NCM’s biggest weakness was substandard shielding and concentrated their efforts in that area. The NCS was started as a parallel design because the Tholians were not initially certain the NCL could be converted to X-technology. When the NCLX proved practical, the Tholians converted their remaining NCLs to that design but the sole NCS would have been too expensive to “un-weld” for NCLX conversion. Status – No further production.

YIS – 186

Description – Start with the Neo-Tholian Medium Cruiser. No change to phasers. Add 1 APR and 1 hull. Upgrade shields to 30-24-24-24. BPV about 160.

Comment – The NCM already has a web caster, 4 disruptors, 9 phaser-1s, and 6 phaser-3s on an MC 2/3 hull. This is a very heavy weapon suite for a 2/3 MC light cruiser and there was no way I was going to propose giving this ship a weapons upgrade, barring the use of X-technology. Since the Hydrans do have MC 2/3 Medium Cruisers that generate 36 points of power and a Command variant (the Apache) that generates 38, giving this ship one extra APR didn’t bother me as much.

The above proposed R7 write-up assumes there will eventually be an X-tech version of the NCL, since it is a Light Cruiser rather than a War Cruiser. If the NCL really is incompatible with X-technology, the write-up would have to be changed to reflect this. Replace the sentences referencing X-technology with the single sentence – “Eventually, all surviving NCLs were converted to this design."

Further comments:
SPP has seen these proposals since he was the one who originally pointed out the spelling error (hard-wielded). He did not comment on whether the designs were possible or not, so I don't know his opinion along those lines. My opinion is that the Heavy Space Control Ship is the most interesting, and if I could only get one of these ships published that would be it. But it does open the potential can of worms of basing PFs and heavy fighters off the same hull. For reasons already stated, I think that makes sense for the Tholians, at least. But it may be someplace that SVC and SPP just don't want to go. My personal second favorite of these ships is the Battle Cruiser. The Improved Heavy Dreadnought and Strike Cruiser seem kind of bland by comparison.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 08:30 pm: Edit

I've always been a big fan of the Klingon E7. I don't really know WHY I like it, but I do. So something I'd like to see is more Klingon "E7-like" ships.

For example... the E7 Cruiser is a severely built up F5W War Destroyer.

What could you get from a severely built up E3 Escort? Perhaps a Destroyer sized vessel like this.

Or perhaps you want to take the D5 to new limits? This is basically what the "War Dreadnought" class is, but this was designed by me about a year before those were published.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: WYN
Type: MS
Time: After the War of Return
Base Hull: DD
Mission: Considered prior to the War of Return to aid in assaulting Kzinti bases, but was not completed in time. Built by the WYN after the War of Return to strengthen the defenses of the Cluster. Unique - only one built.

Could go with a Frigate Version instead.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:53 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: WYN
Type: LTT
Time: After the War of Return
Base Hull: CW
Mission: Considered prior to the War of Return to support the offensive, but was not completed in time. Built by the WYN after the War of Return and used as part of the logistics effort for Operation Unity. Unique - only one built.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:57 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: WYN
Type: CS
Time: After the War of Return - Conjectural
Base Hull: New Hull
Mission: An alternate cruiser considered by the WYN after the War of Return but not constructed, the CW being prefered.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: Orion
Type: CS
Time: ~Y140
Base Hull: CR

This is a simple variant of the CR. Make the wing options and make them permanent LS/RS phasers. Then, take one forward phaser on each side and make them option mounts. All three option mounts are considered "adjacent centerline" option mounts.

This gives a CR that has slightly more distributed phasers, but can now carry heavier weapons (like plasmas).

This isn't originally my idea, but I forgot who originally came up with it.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: Fed
Type: GSD
Time: Y140-150
Base Hull: DD

A low cost stablemate to the GSC (much as the DD was expected fill some CA roles in peacetime). It was originally hoped that these ships would speed the Federation survey effort at lower cost, but losses in various incidents left the few surviving GSDs dependant on other ships assigned as escorts. After Y150, the two surviving GSDs typically operated with a CL or FF escort on survey missions. The higher supply demand for the two ships meant their survey missions were limited in their range and success.

It is not clear if any of these ships survived in regular service in the GW. Plans existed for the GSDs to operate as commando ships or small carriers.

By James B. Pennington (Cutlass401) on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Race/Empire: Hydran
Time: Y134/158
Type: CL
Hull: New

A light cruiser design to fill the gap between the Ranger heavy cruiser and the Lancer destroyer, found to be not much better than a Lancer so production was limited to only a few ships.

Proposed names: Amazon (fusion), Centaur (hellbore)

See the Hydran Light Cruiser thread for the SSDs

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Race: Fed
Time: Y145
Type: GSD
Hull: DD
SSD: link

A variant of the design Jeremy suggested for a Galactic Survey Destroyer.

It occurs to me that an NCL might make an OK survey cruiser, but this one is based on the DD.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 09:51 pm: Edit

Race: Klingon
Time: Y175
Type: E3S
Hull: E3
SSD: link

Not sure what to do with their impotent E3 and E4 class ships the DSF converted two to this design. It was hoped that when operated in pairs they could provide the same support as a DB ship without the risk of being ordered into direct combat as was so commonly done with the D6D. It was also believed that should an enemy send out a raider to deal with the problem it would be possible for the ships to simply split up allowing one to escape, much more acceptable than losing a cruiser hull.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 10:19 pm: Edit

Well, WTH. Since everyone else is sending in their own obvious variants, I might as well, too.

Race: Romulan
Time: Y172
Type: K6R
Hull: C6
The Romulan conversion of the C6. If the Klingons had sent a dreadnought in the initial batch of ships, or if the treaty had been signed earlier, it is likely the ship delivered would have been the C6, not the C9. Just as with the C6, the K6R has no weapons on the center engine (i.e. has no Pl-R). The refitted version of the KC6R is the K9RB.

Race: Romulan
Time: Y184
Type: K9S
Hull: K9R
If the Behemoth were to have ever been damaged enough to require shipyard repair, it is probable that it would have been rebuilt as an SCS. This ship uses the rear hull and deckhouse of a C8S. The phasers would have been different, however, as the base hull was a C9, not a C8.

Race: Romulan
Time: Y172
Type: KLR
Hull: C5
The Romulan version of the C5. This ship uses a Pl-S in place of the single disruptor on the center engine. This gives it a plasma suite of 3xPl-S and 2xPl-F, which contrasts nicely with the Shrike's plasma suite of Pl-R, Pl-S, and 2xPl-F. It is a very nice ship.

Race: Romulan
Time: Y182
Type: K1R
Hull: G1
The Romulan version of the G1. The resulting conversion would give it 2xPh-1, 3xPl-F (with LP/FP/RP arcs), and a rear Ph-3. It has a nice, balanced weapons suite, unlike just about any of the "real" Romulan gunboats.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 10:28 pm: Edit

Oops, forgot two, ...

Race: Tholian
Time: Y170
Type: DN
Hull: D
I have no idea why the Tholians could replace the forward Ph-3 with a photon, but not with a disruptor. This ship is identical to a DP, except that it has disruptors in place of the photons.

Race: Tholian
Time: Y181
Type: SCS
Hull: CVA
The Tholian CVA already has the requisite six tractor beams. Just carve out some room for a handful of repair boxes, slap on the mech links, and you have a fully servicable SCS. Plus, it's based on the CVA hull, not a dreadnought hull.

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 01:32 am: Edit

Race: Romulan
Time: Y176
Type: KRW
Hull: KRL

The year after the D7W upgrade (and all other heavy command cruisers) was developed, the Romulans apply the same upgrades to their KRLs.

I have an SSD, but no place to post it.

By Jon Berry (Laz_Longsmith) on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Race: Hydran
Time: Y172+
Type: Heavy Knight ('Early' Heavy War Destroyer)
Hull: Knight

Hellbore conversion of the existing Heavy Lancer. Established history does not seem to allow for more than one or two built along side the LNH before the Fall. Campaign Conjectural or Unique build status would seem right.

F&E: Negligable. Equivalent to the LNH as any Hellbore vs Fusion conversion.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 01:09 am: Edit

OFFICIAL MENTION OF SHIP IN ANOTHER TOPIC.
#########################################
HYDRAN Steel Chancellor
SFB PROPOSALS BOARD; NEW SHIPS; R09; HYDRAN PROPOSALS "Steel Chancellor" BY Michael Lui POSTED 11 October 2006
Race: Hydran
Time: General War, Heavy fighter deployment
Type: CVAH
Hull: Paladin, Iron Chancellor variant.

Replace 1 squadron of standard fighters with 1 squadron of heavy fighters.
#########################################
PER SVC DIRECTIVE, COMMENTS ON THIS SHIP
SHOULD GO IN ITS OWN TOPIC, NOT THIS ONE.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 01:19 am: Edit

OFFICIAL MENTION OF SHIP IN ANOTHER TOPIC.
#########################################
HYDRAN Lord Steel Chancellor
SFB PROPOSALS BOARD; NEW SHIPS; R09; HYDRAN PROPOSALS "Lord Steel Chancellor" BY Michael Lui POSTED 11 October 2006 (under Steel Chancellor)
Race: Hydran
Time: General War, PF deployment
Type: SSCS
Hull: Paladin, Steel Chancellor variant.

Replace rear transporters (4) with the same amount of repair and add Mechlinks to the adjacent tractors (6).
#########################################
PER SVC DIRECTIVE, COMMENTS ON THIS SHIP
SHOULD GO IN ITS OWN TOPIC, NOT THIS ONE.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Carrier escort versions of Fed Fast NCL and Fed FAst DD.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 08:09 pm: Edit

OFFICIAL MENTION OF SHIP IN ANOTHER TOPIC.
#########################################
FEDERATION Fast Frigate (FFF) and Variants
SFB; PROPOSALS BOARD; SHIPS; R02: FEDERATION PROPOSALS; Federation Fast Frigate
Proposed by Jeremy Gray, Feb 2007.
Race: Federation (perhaps others)
Time: Y173(ish)
Type: Fast Frigate
Hull: Unique Hull form derived from Fed FF
General outline of idea: A fast frigate stablemate to the the Fed DNL, CF, and DDF. Developed after the Federation gained operational experience with fast raiding forces (around Y173, towards the end of mass frigate production). Served a number of purposes: rapid response forces, wolfpack operations, escorts for fast cruisers and light dreadnoughts. Follows the pattern of the DNLs...no increase in power, but a lower movecost. Phaser-1s reduced as compared to the FFG rather than photons to retain viability as a raider and to differentiate it from a POL. Variants considered (but may or may not have been produced): Fast Scout Frigate (FSF), Fast Escort Frigate (FEF), and Fast Romulan Border Escort Frigate (FRF). Variant designs are fairly obvious. Escorts conceived as consorts to the DVL and CVF.

Note: It would be fairly straightforward to develop similar ships for the other races, with most if not all remaining unbuilt or conjectural ships.
#########################################
PER SVC DIRECTIVE, COMMENTS ON THIS SHIP
SHOULD GO IN ITS OWN TOPIC, NOT THIS ONE.

By James B. Pennington (Cutlass401) on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 04:27 pm: Edit

OFFICIAL MENTION OF SHIP IN ANOTHER TOPIC.
#########################################
Title: Kzinti Light Destroyer
SFB; PROPOSALS BOARD; SHIPS; Kzinti Light Destroyer
James B. Pennington 4/12/07
Race: Kzinti
Time: Y172
Type: Destroyer
Hull: Frigate
General outline of idea:
A Kzinti Frigate modified with the "saddle bag" concept of the DNM/DNW
#########################################
PER SVC DIRECTIVE, COMMENTS ON THIS SHIP
SHOULD GO IN ITS OWN TOPIC, NOT THIS ONE.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 10:46 am: Edit

OFFICIAL MENTION OF SHIP IN ANOTHER TOPIC.
#########################################
FEDERATION Improved Heavy Cruiser (CG)
SFB; PROPOSALS BOARD; NEW SHIPS; A "Reimagined" Fed CA
Proposed by Jeremy Gray, June 16, 2007 - 09:34 am, (a few posts into the topic).
Race: Federation (perhaps others)
Time: Y175
Type: Heavy Cruiser (modernized, mid-GW)
Hull: CA
General outline of idea: An improvement to CARa+, incorperating some, but not all of the improvements of the CB. Brings the ship up to a competitive standard with CCHs and NCAs of the mid-general war, without radical alterations to the basic design. Intended as a final, pre-X refit of existing CAs. It is unlikely that any CGs would be built as new construction, as the NCA is adequate. May or may not have extually been applied to many Federation CAs, as the old hulls may have been destroyed in the early GW, converted to CBs or carriers, or left in their original form due to lack of yard space or funds. More explaination in the topic.

Note: It would be fairly straightforward to develop similar ships for the other races, with most if not all remaining unbuilt or conjectural ships.
#########################################
PER SVC DIRECTIVE, COMMENTS ON THIS SHIP
SHOULD GO IN ITS OWN TOPIC, NOT THIS ONE.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Notes on new ships that came up in conversation while doing R11....

Fast versions of any amusing pre-war ship.
Fast versions of any amusing wartime ship.
Workboat versions of interceptors.
Various one-time attempts to invent PFTs.
Civilian Mission Ships (skids stacks)
Alternative Romulan FCRs and theater transports
Police versions of gunboats (no booster packs).
More kinds of skiffs
Heavy monitors
More Heavy auxilaries of every type
WYN mako light PFT
ISC CL (and CA?) with the SDDD/SDFF pack.
Seltorian light raider
Vudar light raider

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 06:26 am: Edit

Loren, there is the Martial Eagle I proposed a long time ago. About equal to a KE.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 11:52 am: Edit

Loren, discussed this at length back when the ship was proposed, but in summary:

This is intended to be a baby Condor (or more specifically a predecessor). So the distribution of weapons (and their arcs) are intended to mirror its big brother. It was based on the idea that the Condor was really a derivative of the Eagle series, but among other things, lost its armor. If it is going to mirror the Condor, then no armor should be present here either. When you lay the ME and the CON side by side, you will see what I mean.

I specifically left out the flag bridge to emphasize this is a heavy cruiser, not a command ship. As proposed, this was a failed design requiring new construction (armor just can't be removed from older ships) that was rejected in favor of the more effective KE conversion. Had it been accepted, a command variant via an flag bridge would be an easy add.

As for the phasers, the number of phasers is an increase over the KE's 4 Ph-1s, with 5-6 Ph-1s available anywhere in the FA arc. The original FA+L/R phasers were reduced in number and arc due to the added systems (power) in the main hull and the big neck and bulbous bow (copied from the Condor) included in the design. 360 phasers are a lift from the Condor as well.

I would not be in favor of eight Ph-1s on such a design. The new contruction heavy hawks with K modules only have 7 ph-1s and the original CON only had 9 (going from memory here). 8 Ph-1s seems heavy for a Rom cruiser and more comparible to a Gorn CA.

The entry from my shipyard page:

"MARTIAL EAGLE (ME): In their search for a new heavy cruiser, the Romulans considered other alternatives before settling on the Firehawk (R4.38). The first attempt to produce a heavy cruiser resulted in the Martial Eagle, a design derived from the workhorse War Eagle cruiser. Two ships were begun in Y168, but construction was halted when the Sparrowhawk began to prove the effectiveness of modular design. The ships were never completed.

The hull of the Martial Eagle, while functionally similar in War Eagle, was in fact a total redesign. The significant enlargement of the ship's hull was made possible by deleting the armor from the original design. As the armor on existing ships could not be easily removed, all Martial Eagles would have been new construction.

The Firehawk's greater adaptability and higher potential for future growth made it far more attractive. However, the enlarged engines developed for the Martial Eagle were used on the less radical King Eagle design that appeared in Y169. The hull form of the Martial Eagle also inspired the much larger, and much more successful, Condor Dreadnought, which first appeared in Y170. Unlike the other Eagle class ships, the Martial Eagle could not land on planets. The ship's poor turn mode could not be improved.

Names: Triumpho (Triumphant), Bellatorius (Warlike)

A note on the class name: The Martial Eagle is the largest eagle in Africa. Weighing in at 14 pounds, they are powerful enough to routinely prey on animals as large as the Impala."

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 10:34 am: Edit

I was wandering through old threads today and came across mention of a larger version of the Mobile Base, called the MBB. SVC mentioned the SSD existed, but had never been published. Any chance it might show up in R12 (probably not a unique ship, but I'm not sure where else it would go in the near future, except a CL perhaps)?