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Not yet.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 07:31 pm: Edit

The commander's edition contained the Q series of rules.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 07:39 pm: Edit

Q stuff here- http://www.starfleetgames.com/sublight.shtml

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 11:08 pm: Edit

I was about to say that I ought to have added a link to this discussion thread as part of that thought of transferring the Yeney to a dedicated sublight game system - but it turns out that I had posted about them over there already...

Just as the old Supplement #2 material has been cast aside and won't be a factor in the development of Module X2, I'm not too sure if it would be wise to assume that any future sublight file may look anything like the old Module Q material - or, indeed, if it ought to be portrayed in SFB Captain's Edition terms at all.

But, rather than risk derailing this thread yet further, I'll say that I would prefer to see a would-be Module Y4 maintain its focus on the warp-refitted and early warp eras, even if that meant only one of the potential candidates from GURPS Federation could be made viable here instead of elsewhere.


Oh, and I forgot to mention that I'd still like to see some of the dedicated pre-Orion pirate hulls in early ISC space. The material in Module Y2 indicates that at least a small number of dedicated pirate ships were built prior to the first Orion contacts. It would be interesting to see how they worked, not least to give the Y-era Navy and Police something to do aside from keeping tabs on Space Boar stampedes... this side of the various "Paravian timelines" postulated in Module C6, at least.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 11:22 am: Edit

Agreed that Module Q would need a complete rewrite since the Y modules have come out. I wonder how many would not buy a Module Q no matter what it contains but would buy a Module Y4 or Y5 if it contained Q era material? Maybe it would be marketable if it was called very,very early years. Maybe there isn't enough remaining and needed material for a full Y Module and not enough material for a full Q module but the material could be combined into a single Y/Q module. I would buy both either or only the one, but I suspect I am in the minority.

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 04:48 am: Edit

Depending on what it involves, I'd probably be MORE likely to buy a Module Q than another Module Y. That might just be me, but the Y modules are not my favorite, and I'd be more likely to be excited about a Module Q (which is likely to be totally different) than another Module Y (which is likely to be more of the same Y-stuff).

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 09:28 am: Edit

IMO Module Q should be a stand-alone game replete with its own map, counters, charts, etc.

More likely to sell to a wider group than simply as a SFB module.

Call it "The Romulan War" and have on the cover a Warbird wupping up a Terran sublight cruiser or some such.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Yeah, the hypothetical Q-modules really need to be laser-focused on specific combatants. Romulan War (Federation vs Romulans), Kzinti War (Klingons vs Kzinti), etc. And they really need to be a COMPLETELY different system. I'd even prefer a sort of pseudo-vector movement* to them to help demonstrate the scale difference.

* Basically just use one of the three-token systems. One for the hex the ship was last in, one for the hex it's in NOW, and one for the hex it will be in next turn. When paying for movement, you just move the 'destination' hex the appropriate number of places. Actual movement then simply involves moving the 'previous' token to the ships present spot, moving the ship itself to the 'next' token, and setting down a new 'future' token at the appropriate distance offset.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:28 pm: Edit

What is wrong with using them as speed six units with the 32 impulse chart as long as only sublight units are on the board?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 02:26 pm: Edit

This is not the topic to discuss Q-sublight.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Friday, October 02, 2015 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Bringing up a new idea for Tellarites in Y4.

This proposal is bland, boring, but requires no new SSD's because they are already in Y1/2/3.

I refer to the Orion W-era ship classes WDN/WCA/WCL/WDR/WFR and the commando ships (of course).

I postulate that if the Orions basically used ships based off armed freighters that the Tellarites may as well do so too.

So, when tactical warp was invented, the Tellarites decided to completely scrap their sublight-era navy, and the most economical means for building a new tacwarp fleet was to essentially use designs based off their merchant ships.

This proposal has the advantage that no SSD's are required (simply use the appropriate Orion ships), and one page can be used for the background description.

Even if SSD's are included, the other advantage is that they have already been playtested and use no new tech; just phasers and photons.

Indeed, the Orion W-era ships can be used as 'generic' Federation member race ships for the era; races such as the Caitians and others can therefore be considered to use the same 'default' armed merchant design.

End of proposal update.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Wednesday, October 07, 2015 - 06:03 pm: Edit

I can't find this on the board, but any thoughts or idea for early years Klingon Subject Race ships?

By Mark Steven Hoyle (Markshoyle) on Wednesday, October 07, 2015 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Actually, the Klingons were the Subject Race.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, October 07, 2015 - 10:50 pm: Edit

No, they weren't and had not been for a few decades.

But anyway, as the Timeline says, there were no subject race ships. The Klingons took over abandoned Old Kings ships then built the original D1.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Wednesday, October 07, 2015 - 11:10 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

I can't find this on the board, but any thoughts or idea for early years Klingon Subject Race ships?

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By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Thursday, October 08, 2015 - 10:43 am: Edit

From the MRB- "THE FUTURE OF EARLY YEARS There will probably be a Y2 although we cannot say when it will be. We can say that we will include Early Years material in future issues of Captain’s Log. We have deliberately opened as many doors as we can, leaving space for Klingon command variants, Hydran ironclads, more ships for the Paravians and Carnivons, Klingon subject races, the early Vudar, more early designs for the Lyrans and Kzintis, and other possibilities too numerous (or too dangerous) to mention. Tactics, fiction, art, ships, and scenarios are already in preparation for future Captain’s Logs."

Not the first time the AF tapes have had contradictory data. I read that yesterday and was thinking I have never heard of subject race ships and was curious. Maybe they could be conjectural, maybe not exist at all, anyhow I thought I would ask about them.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, October 08, 2015 - 02:48 pm: Edit

I cannot see them existing at all since history says that the Klingons were the first to grab abandoned OK ships and grabbed them all before anyone else. But who knows? space is big, history is long.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 01:06 am: Edit

Working through GURPS Klingons:

Dunkars: Reached by the Klingons in Y8, before they developed independent spaceflight (former Old Kings subjects).

Hildarians: Reached by the Klingons in Y9, before they developed independent spaceflight (former Old Kings subjects). They, like the Klingons, had Old Kings ships left in orbit around their planet, but did not reach them before the Klingons arrived.

Vergarians: Reached by the Klingons in Y10, before they developed independent spaceflight (former Old Kings subjects). Revolted in Y12, crushed by Klingons.

Zoolies: Reached by the Klingons in Y12, before they developed independent spaceflight (former Old Kings subjects).

Sildarians: Reached by the Klingons in Y21, while still primitive tribesmen.

Cromargs: Reached by the Klingons in Y24, when they were huddled survivors of a planetary nuclear war.

Bargantines: Reached by the Klingons in Y56, when they had basic rocket spaceflight (similar to Earth in the 20th/early 21st century).

Vudar: Reached by the Klingons in Y77. Module Y1 mentions they had clashes with the Klingons and Hydrans, so presumably they had at least some sort of early interstellar spaceflight, though G:Klingons is clear it was limited.

Now, G:Klingons also says:

---

Quote:

There are at least a dozen other Subject Races, but for a variety of reasons these seldom appear in starship crews or colonies frequented by travelers. There are also several races which the Klingons haven’t contacted, as they lack high enough technology to be of any use to the Empire. Some of these races include an aquatic species (the Akians), an insectoid race the Klingons never allow off their planet (the Chitins), a felinoid race related to the Lyrans (the Jwarundils live in stone age conditions and have never been contacted), the Arakans (octopoids who are well adapted to zero-G) and the Morkons (about whom nothing is known to the Federation).

---

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 02:38 am: Edit

IMHO (purely that), I'd suggest leaving it at the Vudar as the only real faction with W-refit and a few Y-era designs, of the early Klingon conquests. The remainder, if any, could be easily handled by the proposal (a few pages back) for a single-sheet of "here's a half dozen generic sublight warship options treated at the SFB scale as 'fighters' although some are hundreds of meters long with crew of thousands, they just aren't that resilient or combat effective at the SFB scale". Make up some interesting fluff text in the R-sections about using 'designs 1, 2, and 3 as destroyers, cruisers, and battleships for species X, while designs 2, 4, and 6 are the frigates, light cruisers, and heavy cruisers of species Y'.

Covers a ton of potential species that way, not to mention making additions in future Captain's logs trivial - can simply add R-section notes without needing to bother reprinting an SSD! And gives those of us who like to see the small systems fleshed out...a bit more meat to chew on.

A long shot, I'm sure, but I really would love to see something like that make it into Y4.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 06:25 am: Edit

I wrote that part, all of those parts, and see nothing to indicate any of those had anything beyond Columbia.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 11:53 am: Edit

Maybe they had Sublight Ships, but not early years ships?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Again, I don't see the need or interest in sub light ships for Y4. I just don't see that happening.

The Vudar could have W-series ships, but the timing doesn't work for Y-series ships. They were conquered too early. But Steve would have to agree to those W-series ships, and that isn't looking promising.

Putting together Xander and Mike's comments, we could create some generic ships that represent militarized freight ships. These would be much better than armed freighters, and would not be based on freighters as we know them now, but just on ships used to haul stuff. These ships would have semi-reasonable performance and have weapons mounts that would be configured to match the weapons needed for the empire they represent. Think of them as very crummy Barbarians.

But, rather than being simulator ships, they are stand-ins for overmatched W-series ships that get crushed by the Klingons, Lyrans, Kzintis, or whomever.


The idea of doing these ships is to have something that can fill this niche without requiring separate fleets for each such empire, but still provide a nice, flexible fleet that are new designs.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 12:21 am: Edit

Maybe some of the systems in the Federation with non member species might have some ships. I remember there were some that had spaceflight (warp) that were hostile and essentially ended bottled up.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 01:03 am: Edit

I think the Barbarian type ship ideas should work fine for most of this. At most, a new weapon or system might be designed for some of them.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 03:43 am: Edit

In this vein, you could simply use the Orion W-ships and make the heavy weapons boxes (which are photons for the Orion) disruptor bolts (or maybe cannons, since apparently cannons are just cousins to bolts). If you really wanted you could replace each heavy weapon with a pair of A-racks (giving the cruiser 4 drone racks, for example).

All-phaser versions are possible as well I suppose.

These could represent the (few) races that were conquered/eaten by the Klingons/Kzinti/Lyrans/Carnivons.

I don't think the Hydrans had any local races to eliminate in the tacwarp era....their various Merchant Guild's no doubt fought lots of wars with each other, much like the squabbling and infighting with the Lyrans and Kzinti.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 10:54 am: Edit

I got the impression that the Old Kings, for whatever reason, preferred to approach worlds with pre-spaceflight populations (for the purposes of incorporating the locals into their realm), while keeping planets with any sort of warp technology at arm's length (as was the case with the Vulcans).

That said, it may be interesting to see if any proscribed planets exist in Klingon space (to include the "leased" territory out in the Delta Sector - though that would of course lie beyond the scope of this era), akin to Vereb IV and Yeney'vn in Federation space. Perhaps the Old Kings left warning beacons in some cases which the Klingons picked up on; while others may have went unknown during the Old King era, only to become a problem which the Klingons themselves had to stumble upon.

As for the Hydrans, they may have the Borak to "deal with", though there does not seem to be an equivalent indigenous species in the "on-map" Hydran provinces which has risen up to the level at which the Kingdom need concern itself with. (Perhaps the Spirit Kings took it upon themselves to "clear out" the region of space surrounding Hydrax, so as to allow the early Hydrans to expand into a fairly uncontested region of space?)

Alas, the most well-known example of an "also-ran" in Lyran space, the Peladine, aren't subjugated until after the Early Years era had passed. Although one might imagine the Lyrans and Kzintis taking time to try and root out any lingering Carnivon outposts and colonies instead.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 12:59 pm: Edit

The primary reason for doing a Barbarian style fleet instead of just using the Orion W-series ships is so that we have something to publish. Plus, by doing it new, it allows for non-weapon options, too.