Your lucky the previous emperor retired, that would of been grounds for your execution and all of your 10000 siblings, under my rule ;p

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, November 28, 2010 - 11:15 pm: Edit

Revised rules updated and uploaded.

These are the rules for TAoC going forward.

I have also asked Jean to create a separate TAoC topic when she has time.

DbOM players:

I would very very much like to do the new Fleet Building rules in DbOM, because they make my life infinitely easier. This will require that the decision to change to them be unanimous.

This would be done after all combat is resolve for turn 6, and before all other votes.

Big changes:

Fleet Selection:

See (DBOM6.2). It's more than I can summarize here. This change is optional for DbOM and will only be put into DbOM if all players vote to accept it. It is mandatory for TAoC.

Web Rules:
1) Web caster fleet limit upped from 2/1 to 3/2 for Tholians.
2) Web creation by (G10.0) explicitly allowed, but must be done after the start of the scenario.

Disengagement:
1) Each turn after impulse 32, each fleet rolls a disengagement die and adds it to the running total. The target for disengagement is when the running total exceeds 30.
2) Being the BPV disadvantaged force (by the public 'on map' BPVs) subtracts 1 per 100 BPV you're disadvantaged by.
3) If you have a scout and the other side does not, you may either add 2 to the enemy's disengagement total or subtract 2 from yours. This is per sensor channel you have. Thus, a Fed SC can add or subtract 16 - or split them up any way the player sees fit. This is done at the start of the scenario, cannot be changed once the scenario begins, even if a reinforcing fleet on one side or another has a scout, or the scout is destroyed.

Shuttles:
Made it explicit that A-Admins, and warp booster packs are part of the base unit cost, not commander's option items (though you can always buy extras that way).

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 10:00 am: Edit

Ken,

I take it this is the question you tried to IM me about? Resolved? If not, then email me.

Thanks,
Ted

By James Bunker (Valonqar) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 04:29 pm: Edit

The Kith Sector, Archprelate Valonqar

Subject of rules changes:

Yea vote, Web rules
Yea vote, Disengagement timer
Nay vote, A-Admins & warp boosters

;)

By glenn somerfield (Sumo) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 06:28 pm: Edit

since when has any option been part of the initial cost and not a commanders option ?
tb's, extra drns, shut upgrades, bp's....

By Ken Apel (Kengulnar) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 07:35 pm: Edit

as a "refit" I had to pay for upgraded (sabot) torpedoes, so I support the change

By Peter Thoenen (Eol) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Web: Yes

Disengagement: What is the minimum time and average? As long as the minimum isn't under 5 turns I am OK with it.

A-Admin / Warp: Yes, these should be bought lighters fighters and drones, at time of ship purchase.

Fleet:

6.21 - Depending on YIS, should allow Stellar Fortress
Upgrade.

The rest of 6.2 - I'm fine with that

Editing Comment: Can you add a revision or version .. like 1.0, or 1.01 or something other than just date.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 10:47 pm: Edit

Peter: Rolling 1d6 per turn, hitting 30 will be somewhere between 7 and 9 turns for most players, but could be as short as 5 if someone gets really lucky.

The shortest scenario: You have a lone Fed SC (200 BPV fleet) with 8 channels facing a 700 BPV force with no scout, and the Fed SC is trying to get away. This is 30-16-5=9. Odds are the SC springs free in 3 turns, it could do it in 2, and it's possible it might have to stick around for 4 turns. If the 700 BPV force has a scout (likely), the Fed SC has to stick around for 6 turns on average and likely dies a messy horrible death.

The longest scenario: A Federation fleet with an SC with channels against an equal BPV force that with no scout, and wanting to extend it, could force you to keep rolling until you hit 46 to be sprung - which is about 13 turns with average rolls.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Explaining COs:

While it's 15% COs, it is NOT 15% replenished each turn.

It's 15%, replenished at 5% per turn.

Let's say you have a 100 point ship that has 15 points of COs. We'll say, for the sake of argument, that it's a 7 point drogue and two 4 point Tbombs.

On turn 2, it uses ALL of those CO options in a battle - it uses both T-bombs, and the drogue gets destroyed.

On turn 3, it will get 5 CO points back - it cannot replace the drogue immediately, but could get back the T-bomb (and a single, slow drone...)

On turn 4, assuming nothing got used on turn 3 it has 10 CO points back. That's both T-bombs and a fast drone (or a drogue and something special).

On turn 5, it is back up to 15 CO points back.

What the CO points get spent on is specified at the start of each scenario - if you take a T-bomb on turn 3 and decide you want a 12 point drogue on turn 5, the T-bomb vanishes and the drogue comes arrives; the T-bomb does NOT prevent you from getting the drogue.

But this does mean that if you've run a ship out of COs, it's worth it to pursue it on subsequent turns to keep hitting it while it's depleted (this also applies to ships with fighters, drones and plasma D-rack reloads.)

A player may always spend "unused cap" (stuff left over from the every three turns production phase) to fill out CO points above whatever the replenishment limit is for a unit - but cannot give a unit more than 20% COs.

In general, you're better off saving that unused cap for repairs, but it may be the right amount to edge things up to what you want to do.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 11:16 pm: Edit

The idea that you can just buy WBPs out of commander's option items turns out to be false. It's a COMMON misperception, but it is, nonetheless, false.

(J5.32) COST: The BPV of any shuttle fitted with WBPs at any point during the scenario is increased by one point. This is part of the basic cost of the forces and is not purchased with Commander’s Options, although additional WBPs could be purchased that way. The BPV increase for WBPs is used even if the packs are dropped during the scenario.

By James Bunker (Valonqar) on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 05:39 pm: Edit

I understand the Warp Pack argument an agree with you Ken. It does cost 1 BPV per fighter/shuttle and (J5.42 Stockpile) rule sets the reloads available for the type of ship using them.
I don't understand the A-Admins costing BPV when they are listed as a Commander's option swap for shuttles. They only add 2 spd/dp to the shuttle so are not worth an 1 BPV per shuttle.

Val

By Robert Grey (Tugger) on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 12:20 am: Edit

R1.F17 Advanced Admin Shuttles (A-Admin)
become available in y180, replacing admin shuttles. They are speed 8, have two chaff packs, require 8 damage to destroy, and cost 3 points each....All ships that have admin shuttles replace them with A-Admin on 1 Jan Y180 unless otherwise required by rule, ect
R1.F171 These advance shuttles are received automatically and DO NOT INCREASE THE BPV of the ships.

By Peter Thoenen (Eol) on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 03:30 am: Edit

Yep, that's why I was confused on Ken's comment they cost BPV (R1.F171)

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 11:08 am: Edit

OK, thanks. A-Admins are commander's option items.

By Peter Thoenen (Eol) on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Ja but doesn't meant they are CO's either .. they are free starting Y180

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Hmm I can see Eol and Tuggers points on the A-Admin.

And as for what Val said about them not being worth a BPV considering there stats, sure speed 8 is pretty slow, but put warp boosters on them. Yeah that would cost +1 for shuttle converion and +1 for the A-Admin WBP. Then you have a speed 16 damage 8 shuttle you can tow and not death drag

The rules state the cost of the admin shuttles are included in BPV of the ship. But I cant find where it says that the A-Admin is included in the BPV of ships after Y181.

Unfortunatly my R section lacks the A-Admins entirely. And its the Master Rulebook.

It seems like if they were not supposed to be paid for as commander's options they shuttles's never would have made it into Annex 6.

My question is this if warp booster packs have to be purchased as part of a units cost, and A Admins are commanders options. How do you buy WBP's for them as part of ship cost or additional commanders options. I ask because you cant just buy admin WBP's there not compatable with A-Admin shuttles.

If there bought as options i would like to see WBP's for the regular and A series shuttles allowed as commanders options if they +1 is paid for the packs. And one reload WBP per shuttle and 3 per fighter are put into storage.

There is a not in the Annex 6 following the shuttle entries that says "there is no rebate for trading and advanced shuttle of andy type for a non advanced shuttle.

Thanks, GFB

By James Bunker (Valonqar) on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Hmm your A-admin question has a reference number provided in Tugger's response.
Tow an A-admin with WBP at spd 17 will death drag it, it can fly on it's own at 16 why tow.?
WBP's cost the same 1 BPV, for ftrs and shuttles you would just list them as A-admin WBP. And they are not CO's.
What Tugger is trying to tell you that admin shuttles are decommissioned before the game starts.
A-admins are the standard for all races in year 181.
WBP will add 1 BPV to Ftrs/shuttles they are purchased for.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Sunday, December 05, 2010 - 02:04 pm: Edit

Well Valonqar.

One reason to tow an A-Admin speed 16 when it can move that fast with WBP's anyway is so the WBP's need not be turned on.

That would reduce damage to the shuttle from weapons to normal yet the A-Admin would move 16.

If the ship wants to speed up above 16 it drops the tractor, and the A-Admin is free to turn on packs and keep moving at 16 or drop to speed 8.

Hmm, does that answer why you might want to tow an A-Admin on a tractor?

The same reasoning applies to fighters, 15 without booster packs. 30 if Towed by tractor. But no double damage for WBP's. Ill admit EM with packs is probably a better deal for fighters except at close range.

Sry for the confustion and i did see Tuggers rules reference.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 05:10 am: Edit

There is a beta of the new fleet organiation spreadsheet on the web site. For DbOM, the toggle for "Early Ships Discount" should be set to "yes"

Primary feature added was allowing the designation of both Fleets and Bases to make things easier on the order side.

By Peter Thoenen (Eol) on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Where are we this turn, just waiting on that one battle to be resolved w/ Sumo BATS?

Also now that I have HYPE, if anybody was engaged in diplomacy with Benoit I will honor that .. just email me what the deal was.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 06:40 pm: Edit

We're waiting on Sumo's BATS battle.

By James Bunker (Valonqar) on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Lord Eol - HYPE:
I think you should consult the deposed lord Bneus for the empires take on the deals in place.
Cause he launched an attack on the V at OZ-048 for some reason, which the Kith fully support ;)

Lord Valonqar

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 09:44 pm: Edit

This is why, in my opinion, all campaigns should require separate email accounts for each player. So if they need to turn over their fleets, the next player can have all correspondance associated with it.

The person running the campaign should have access to the email and passwords, so if someone drops out of sight he can still turn over the email files.

By Benoit Rheaume (Bneus) on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 11:57 pm: Edit

OZ_48 was always supposed to be a HYPE territory, going to OZ_48 was just a garantee move, to make sure, The Hunam Lizards kept their part of the pact.

He can retreat to his OZ_47 and take it for next ressource phase, not this one coming up.

But if ya wanna duke it out with your ally go right ahead.

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 02:17 am: Edit

Probably not blaring secret deals out to everyone would be good.