You know, here is something I could deal with. Lets toss around the idea of a booster for drones. Say, the first four impulses it moves double speed (64) then blows off the booster and slows to 32. A double booster would last eight impulses. The drone takes double damage while in boost mode and has a 50% chance of missing if it reaches the target while still boosted.

The tactic would be to close half the range very fast, then blow the boosters to close the range.

It would cost one BPV per booster as Commanders Options. Max two on one X-Drone. Increases the size by 1/2 space whether one or two boosters.

X-Drones only!

Thoughts??

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Half-space module?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 08:49 pm: Edit

All X2 drones get a speed 64 booster. You decide when to turn it on. If it doesn't hit within 8 impulses the whole drone burns out.

The ADD chart posted is too good unless you like CVA battles. Better would be range 0/1/2/3/4/5/6 hitting on 1/2/3/4/2/1/0.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Aren't X-Drones 1.5 spaces? Then add one or two Drone Booster Packs and make them 2 space drones.

Drone Booster Packs: The technology is there. They have been putting them on fighters for ages. And on a drone you don't have to worry about the effects on the pilot.

I don't think it's too out there, it has it limitations and gives the "Faster Drones" guys at least some of what they want.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 09:29 pm: Edit

There's a thread earlier on the page about drone pop-up modules that basically do this. To make 2X drones effective, I'd say its a good idea. Maybe only for the real drone-throwers, though, like the Kzinti. Drones are getting way, way expensive as it is, without adding more doo-dads...especially considering a great many will get shot down.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 12:42 am: Edit

No, I think that everyone who has fighters with Warp Booster Packs should be able to employ these. They might not use them much but they should be available. The smart move would be to at least but one or two on any ship with drones.

What do the plasma boys get that counters this?...Hmmm.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 11:14 am: Edit

I just looked up that Pop Up drone. There is an important difference. The Drone Booster I'm thinking of opperates from launch only. You have no control of the booster. It burns for it's full rate then separates from the drone.

Two notes I thought of: one was that all the Races with fighters and Drones, having scaled way back on using fighters after Operation Unity, found them selves with warehouses full of Warp Booster Packs. A Kzinti and Federation Scientist were discussing the matter when the idea hit them. Imediatly a set of experiments were set up on Mantor. They recased the machanism of a WBP and fitted to a X-slug drone. The first launch destroyed the drone but was in fact a success. The drone just disappeared from the orbiting launch pad and was tracked at high warp for 800,000 KM. It was quickly developed after that. The one mistake they made was to begin experimants at Mantor, which meant that the Klingons heard about it and had little trouble with their own experiments.

Idea Two: All these races attampted to place boosted X-Drones on scatter packs but all attempts failed. The common result was that is always destroyed the shuttle and often destroyed two or all of the drones (as they were two space drones only three woud ever fit). Boosted drones cannot be fired from any shuttle or fighter (bombers included). PFs (SC5) would acuire shock.

Lastly, when buying Drone Boster Packs (DBP) the drones and their corrosponding reloads are fitted. Drones in storage in cargo are never fitted with DBPs but extra DBPs can be purchased for 1/2 BPV each and fitted to drones during the loading of the that drone into a ready rack. This requires 16 additional impulses per DPB. 32 for a Double DPB (DDPB).

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Loren -- you ask what the Plasma boys will get? Why not give each 2X torpedo 4 or 9 points of built-in ECM?

That will make it alot tougher to shoot the buggers down...

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Also, I'm leaning towards a booster pack that fires on launch before burning out. If this proves to be a bit too powerful, we could introduce some fluff like:

While the booster module enabled an incredible speed upon launch, the normal snap-roll booster design had to be discontinued because the drone frames could not handle the stress of a 120-degree change of course during the boost phase. Because of this, the new 2X drones were limited to a 180-degree launching arc similar to the Andorian national ships during the years of the Federation's forming. In addition, during the boost phase, a 2X drone is incapable of performing a HET.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 02:24 pm: Edit

The "No HET wile in boost mode" is a must. Good catch.

However, I don't see limiting their arc of fire. It is my vision that any drones main engine doesn't engage until it is free of the ship and facing the target. Then it takes off like a bat out of hell!


Also, DBP would be ineffectual on the huge drives used on Type-H drones. They could only be fitted to Type-X drones.

One more thing, like Plasma Sabot, count endurance by impulses.

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 02:40 pm: Edit

But think of the game dynamic that this imposes. if we limit the arc of X2 drones with the boosters then it makes maneuver more important to a drone race than before.

And what you are proposing above then would be a case of the drone being launched and the impulse after launch the DBP kicks in?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Two thoughts:

8 impulses is rather long. the drone will cover 16 hexes. Maybe 4 would be enough, something small. 8 would be a 1/2 space module.

Or if the booster is a part of the bus, the drone should lose some endurance. as little a one turn, as much as 1/2 normal. The idea is that somehting has to be moved out to make way for the booster and a smaller fuel tank is the easiest modification.

It might be good to let the bost time be variable up to amax of 4 or 8. That would add some flexibility.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 06:22 pm: Edit

That's what it is in my design. You buy them separate. You attach them to the drone (drones in the rack and ready rack can be prefitted). This increases their size from 1.5 x-drone space to 2.0 space x-drones. You can attach one for a 4 impulse burn (speed 64) or attach two for an 8 impulse burn (sp 64). It has considerable volnerabilities while boosted and might miss entierly so you would plan you attack to have the boosters release some distance from the target, where the return to normal speed.

Since the X-drone has a variable speed I would say to avoid complication you would have to use full speed but could chose you final speed when the DBP jettisons.

Also, there must always be a chance to fire on anything that is speed 64. Either when it is at range one normally or when jumping from range 2 to 0 just prior to impact out of the normal sequence of play, resolved at range one. This is VERY important and without something like this faster than 32 weapons will break the game.

I don't think the Sabot rules have this but I think maybe they should. You should always have a range one shot at a seeking weapon.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 06:38 pm: Edit

Loren,

X1 drones aren't strictly 1.5 space drones. the type VII is a 1-rack-space drone that originally had 1.5 module spaces internally, with the VIII being 2-rack-spaces having 3.0 module spaces. I belive this was revised last year, but I don't remember how. I think the VII went down to 1.0 module spaces. Dunno if the VIII changed, but I expect so.

You wouldn't want a drone to take up anything besides whole rack-spaces. It's a needless complication. The only way you could make a drone take up more rack space would be to make a boosted drone take up a full-second rack space the way going from a IIIX to IIIXX does.

That's why I think in terms of the booster as a module or bus option that reduces endurance.

I think it's best that a boosted drone always go 64 when the booster is on, even if the drone is using a variable speed setting.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 06:51 pm: Edit

I like this launch booster business. In practice, it lets the drone get 4 extra hexes in front of the ship, greatly facilitating the standard tactic of making the enemy deal with your drones while you're hitting him at R4-8.

Having the drones take double damage might be enough, but that doesn't affect ADDs or counter-drones. I'd suggest also enforcing a turn mode of 2 and no HET to make this mode less useful at short range. I'm not keen on the 50% chance of hitting; no existing seeker behaves like that.

Dunno about firing arcs for drone racks, though. Unless you move the racks, you end up with all Klinks firing RH, Kzinti LS/RS and Feds who-knows-where. I'd hope that the drone turns towards the target before engaging the booster, or you'd get all that afterburner exhaust cooking your drone rack.

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 06:52 pm: Edit

John,
I agree that the boosters should reduce either payload or endurance, with my vote being for endurance. Your typical drone has an endurance of 96 impulses (IIRC), so a reduction to 64 impulses isn't out of line.

Besides, how many battles have *you* had where a speed-32 drone has been in flight for 65 impulses?

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 06:57 pm: Edit

Jim,
The concern about arcs for existing ships isn't really relevent -- after all, we *are* talking about new ship designs, and who knows? Maybe the Klingons have figured out that drone racks in the shuttle bay isn't such a good idea, and they could use a few more shuttles...

My point is that 2X ships would be designed to take weapons limitations into account.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 07:00 pm: Edit

Well, I'll have to look at that again. I thought I was providing for less drones and a simpler load out by upping them from 1.5 to 2. The solution is easy though. I would be willing to make the 2 space from one. I want these to be units that you attach to the outside of the bus and jetison when spent. Peeling off like the shell casing off of a M1 Tank Sabot round.

But I'll go with the majority. Boosting for a 4 or 8 impulses at launch is the main idea. I wanted the first years supply to be made from remanufactured fighter WBPs.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 07:19 pm: Edit

Loren,

Most dronestuff is prepared well in advance. You would have a normal drone-bus motor and fuel and it's one part, and you have the sentients in Engineering unscrew it and put in the boosted version that has the WBP mounted on it and a smaller tank. (or the WBP is of negligable size and just sucks down the fuel faster and so reduced endurance).

That said, if we made the booster add a rack-space to the drone, I'd let it go 64 for like a full turn (or be set for less). Taking up a rack space is a high price to pay, even in X2.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Well, I've been thinking about it and looking at the drone rack diagram I think that the bump could fit in the open space between the drones. So just eliminate the "Add a half space" thing. Make drones go fast for a whole turn then everyone will be demanding that they figured out a way to eliminate the volnerabilities and that would be bad. I wanted to give a tactical use (and a bit of a taste of speed 64) without making an uber-drone. And try to set less presidence for faster than 32 tactics.

I'll be blunt, I want SFB to always be based on the 32 impulse chart. It's a core building block. I want SFU physics to set an unbreakable barrier at 31 for Tactical Warp. X2 ships will be faster because they will have enough power to run and chew gum. But I want to have them also have more things to spend power on.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Agreed.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Here's my take one the BOOSTED DRONES.

Boosted drones go at twice the speed of the regular drone they are coppying but no faster than the speed of the X2 Sabotted Plasma Analog.
Boosted drones can work in Poundal Drone Mode.

The Drone Warp Booster is mounted in place of an extended range module ( not in place of a warhead space ).

When carrying the warp booster the drone will take double damage.

If the drone is travelling in boosted mode and the drone strikes it's target then the drone is likely to detonate near or around the target and because the targeting control computer aboard a vessel ( even an X2 vessel ) will have difficulty accuratle calculating the position of the drone at that speed.
Thus if it strikes the target whilst under boost; apply the table G13.37 (although in no way should anyone allow themselves to be confussed that a cloaking device is or isn't opperating.
If a cloaking divice is involved then the table shall be rolled twice and the two multiplieres multiplied by each other to find the actual damage multiplier.

The drone is not launched in Boost Mode and must be ordered to activate it's booster ( in the movement step ) and like ED will activate 2 impulses latter.
If the drone is ordered to switch off it's booster ( in the movement step ) then the drone shall switch off it's booster two impulses latter.

The drone can be ordered to drop it's booster.
The drone will only stop taking double damage after it has DROPPED it's booster.
The drone shall drop it's booster 2 impulses after it has been ordered to.

If the drone is switched to ATG then the ATG computer shall give the order to drop the BOOSTER as soon as it receives control ( and the booster will be dropped 2 impulses latter ).


This then gives the player of the drone the choice, allow the G13.37 table to cruicify his damage output ( particularly against bases ) or grant the taget vessel a speed 32 ( or slower ) target to shoot at in the final few impulses.
It will also stop close range drone launches from leaping to the target without a chance to shoot it down through the non-boosted launch rule.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 11:39 pm: Edit

as I noted in the speed limit topic the 'problem' of high speed drones vs bases is easily solved if P-3x has a little extended range so that the range-2 shot isn't any worse then the current range-1 shot. at that point who cares that you have to shoot at range-2 instead of range-1

most (if not all) of the other weapons get some extra range so one extra hex on the P-3x isn't unreasonable.

there's no need for switchable boosters or special rules to allow R-1 shots

as for ship vs ship launches just consider it the same as R-0 launches, a dangerous thing that you don't want to be on the receiving end of so you keep the range open if your opponent has seeking weapons ready to fire.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 11:55 pm: Edit

I agree; the best repulse to the 33+ nay sayers is the extention of the sweetspots of weapons.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 12:24 am: Edit

MJC,

How about this for extending the range:
Back to the 10 EW with up to a 2-shift offensively (which an X2 tech base would have against even an ECM drone)

ph-3 table with a 2-shift (useful for X2 bases attacked by drones)

Range	0	1	2	3	4-8	9-15
	4	4	4	4	4	3
	4	4	4	4	3	1
	4	4	4	3	1	1
	4	4	4	2	1	0
	4	4	4	1	0	0
	4	4	3	0	0	0