Archive through February 15, 2011
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Tournament Zone:
Tournament Rules Q&A:
Archive through February 15, 2011
Question for anybody who knows. If an orion has already used one free het. Then becomes decontrolled during a turn.(it says you get -2 on your het bonus immediately if you become decontrolled) Is the 2nd free het lost even if at the end of the turn that it's lost the orion player fixes a control space? In short, I would like to know if the orion player has to roll a dice when he hets.
This is a tricky question. Note that you don't become uncontrolled until the end of the turn that you lost your last control space (G2.20).
Now, you don't actually lose any HET bonuses for going uncontrolled, it's just that you can't HET while uncontrolled. However, you DO lose your HET bonus if you become crippled (S2.42-7) and you are crippled if you have lost all control spaces (S2.41D), and crippling takes effect immediately (S2.41), so you actually lose your bonus before uncontrolled status takes effect.
If you've lost your (C6.52) bonus, then you've lost all your free HETs, not just the first one.
However, what is not clear, is whether you get any unused HET bonuses back, if you become uncrippled, say by repairing a control space. I seem to remember a ruling on this, but I don't remember what it was.
In regards to the upcoming Origins SFB tournament, what is the format?
I've been getting back into SFB after a couple of decades. I'm collecting older Captain's Logs and I see where they have Patrol Tournaments and Fleet Captain's Tournaments. My understanding is that the Patrol Tournaments are NOT single elimination, rather it is the amount of wins and/or best percentage of wins??? And that the Fleet Captain's tournament is single elimination. Is this still the same way? If so, my understanding is that you can, at least initially try to get some games in for both and then see which way it goes?
Also, what has the attendence been for the SFB tournaments the last few years? I read somewhere in one of the posts here that a guy won his first three games but then had difficulty finding a fourth. Having never been in a tournament before I'm not expecting to go there and clean house, but I would like to be able to get in enough games to learn from experienced people and make the trip worthwhile.
Thank you in advance for any info you can share with me. I have the basic set as well as the Tournament Reference Module. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated, thank you.
I've never been to a tournament, so I cant help you on format. As far as info to share and getting back into the game and learning from experienced people, I would strongly suggest downloading SFBonline and hanging out there, at least as a demo for a while, which is free (though the 3 month subscription is very worthwhile for the money).
The format has changed over the last few years as attendance has waned. The planned format at this point is a large patrol style tourney with a final 16 (or 8) to begin on Saturday morning. Last year attendance was so low as to force the format to a Saturday patrol tourney allowing all games played through Saturday night to count to the total record. The two with the best record would play a final.
David wrote:
>>In regards to the upcoming Origins SFB tournament, what is the format?>>
It has been pretty fluid for the last few years, depending on who (i.e. how many) shows up. The general format for the last few years was play patrol games on Thursday and Friday, and then the top 8 (or 4) players were put into a single elimination tree. I think last year, turnout was particularly low, so it was just patrol all Thu, Fri, Sat, and then the best two records played a final.
>>My understanding is that the Patrol Tournaments are NOT single elimination, rather it is the amount of wins and/or best percentage of wins??? And that the Fleet Captain's tournament is single elimination.>>
Back in the day, there were 2 main tournaments:
-Patrol: Play as many games as you can stand on Thu and Fri, top 8 get put into a single elimination tree on Saturday. This is how most existing Face to Face tournaments work still.
-Captains: From the start, a 64 or 128 (although not for a really long time) person single elimination tournament. To win, you'd have to win 6 or 7 games in a row.
There was also Saturday Patrol on Saturday for folks who got killed out of Patrol and Captains, which was just play as many games as you could on Saturday, and top record won.
As noted, the tournaments at Origins haven't been run like this for a while--I think the last time there were separate Patrol and Captain's tournaments was maybe 2002 (at least, that is the latest one I can find results for, but that is probably the last time). After that, the tournaments sort of collapsed into a single event due to turnout. In the mid-late 90's, the Origins tournament (which I have been to every year since 1995 until this year :-(, we had between 50-75 people playing SFB at Origins (with a consistent decline as the years went on). I think in 1995, we had almost 100. The last few years have seen a serious lack of players at Origins--less than 20 playing for the last few years. For the past 3 years, there was an attempt to pull people in by allowing people to play preliminary rounds (and the final in at least one case) o SFBOL, and even allowing people to play the whole tournament via SFBOL, but that only ever accounted for a few people and a few games.
>>Also, what has the attendence been for the SFB tournaments the last few years? I read somewhere in one of the posts here that a guy won his first three games but then had difficulty finding a fourth. Having never been in a tournament before I'm not expecting to go there and clean house, but I would like to be able to get in enough games to learn from experienced people and make the trip worthwhile.>>
As noted, pretty low. Under 20 total players for the last couple years, for the SFB tournament. There are also big F+E events, and a Fed Commander tournament.
>>Thank you in advance for any info you can share with me. I have the basic set as well as the Tournament Reference Module. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated, thank you.>>
As noted, SFBOL (Star Fleet Battles Online) is a great way to get back into the game--it is $15.00 for 3 months (and you can play tournament games as the Fed or Klingon as a demo for free), and has 3 or 4 Rated Ace tournaments a year, as well as various other goofy tournaments, and also allows you to play regular (non tournament) SFB and I'm pretty sure Fed Commander now too.
Pretty much what Peter said, with one minor nitpicky correction:
In 1993 and 1994, the Captain' Tournament was expanded to 256 seats, though a good chunk of them were byes. My dim memories of 1993 are that Captains hit 232 first round games played.
In 1996, there were just under 128 players.
In 1999, there were just over 110 players.
In 2000, there were just over 100 players - and 15 of the final 16 had SFBOL accounts.
In 2001 there were 90+ players
In 2002 there were 70+ players.
In 2003, there were about 45 players, and Captains and Patrol were folded together.
In 2004, it was down to 30ish players
After 2004, I was generally spending too much time working my own events to keep track, but my recollection is that it stayed at 30+ through 2007 and then fell through the floor in 2008-2009.
Well maybe this would work to my advantage, I could go and say I made the 'top 10' even if I lose a bunch 
Seriously though I will check out SFBOL. I glanced through it briefly but didn't have time to really get a thorough look at everything. Is it difficult to get the hang of it as far as how everything works via the computer as opposed to by hand? I don't want to get in as an SFBOL newbie and tick off the guy I'm playing because I'm slow while learning the ropes. I think someone here mentioned that you are able to watch some of the games that others are playing as well?
As far as Origins, it would be interesting to attend just to see it first-hand. I've been collecting the older issues of Captain's Log and one of my favorite parts is the winner's description of the tournaments they were in. I know they were from 'back in the day' but they kinda got me fired up to see what it was like first-hand.
I imagine FC and F&E have taken quite a chunk out of SFB at these events. Does anyone know a good resource to find SFB tournaments in the various states? If there was something in Florida I'd love to know about it.
And lastly I appreciate everyone taking the time to help me get re-acclimated to the game. Much appreciated!
David wrote:
>>Seriously though I will check out SFBOL. I glanced through it briefly but didn't have time to really get a thorough look at everything. Is it difficult to get the hang of it as far as how everything works via the computer as opposed to by hand? I don't want to get in as an SFBOL newbie and tick off the guy I'm playing because I'm slow while learning the ropes. I think someone here mentioned that you are able to watch some of the games that others are playing as well? >>
Yep--the interface isn't that difficult to get used to, and no one is ever going to be irritated if you are just figuring it out. Just play a few demo games, or games where you are clearly just figuring out the system before you play your first tournament game :-)
>>As far as Origins, it would be interesting to attend just to see it first-hand. I've been collecting the older issues of Captain's Log and one of my favorite parts is the winner's description of the tournaments they were in. I know they were from 'back in the day' but they kinda got me fired up to see what it was like first-hand.>>
Oh, it is certainly worth going to if you like games in general, even if the SFB tournament is on the decline--the players you meet are all very nice, the game designers are there, there are tons of other games to play, and the dealer room is fantastic. If you are a game player, going to Origins is something you should try to do if you can.
>>I imagine FC and F&E have taken quite a chunk out of SFB at these events.>>
This is certainly a point of debate--in the mid-late 90's when there were 75+ people playing the SFB tournament, there were no good F+E events and no FedCom, so people who went to Origins and wanted to play some Star Fleet Universe stuff would throw in to the SFB tournament, if even only for a game or two. F+E has had a fantastic and well organized series of events at Origins (like 20-30 guys all playing 5 or 6 games of F+E for the length of the con) that may or may not have siphoned off some of the more casual SFB players. In the last few years, there have been FedCom tournaments which use squadrons of ships, and are easy to jump into for the more casual player, and that also may or may not have siphoned off some of the more casual SFB players. All this being said, the reality of the situation is that the pool of people who want to play tournament SFB is dwindling, and there is other stuff to do. And you can play good SFB tournaments online 3 or 4 times a year without having to go to, and pay for, a specific convention.
>>Does anyone know a good resource to find SFB tournaments in the various states? If there was something in Florida I'd love to know about it.>>
This is pretty much that resource. There is a "convention announcements" thread around somewhere if you dig. There aren't a ton of real life SFB tournaments these days anymore, although other than Origins, there are still a good handful that happen around the country every year.
I appreciate the information. I'd definately like to get a few SFBOL games under my belt before tackling a tournament. I'll see if I can get in there and really take a close look and try that demo game you mentioned. It will give me a good opportunity to use some of the rules I've not used before. I'm reading up on them the last couple of days since I received the TR module.
Andy Vancil said:
"This is a tricky question. Note that you don't become uncontrolled until the end of the turn that you lost your last control space (G2.20).
Now, you don't actually lose any HET bonuses for going uncontrolled, it's just that you can't HET while uncontrolled. However, you DO lose your HET bonus if you become crippled (S2.42-7) and you are crippled if you have lost all control spaces (S2.41D), and crippling takes effect immediately (S2.41), so you actually lose your bonus before uncontrolled status takes effect.
If you've lost your (C6.52) bonus, then you've lost all your free HETs, not just the first one.
However, what is not clear, is whether you get any unused HET bonuses back, if you become uncrippled, say by repairing a control space. I seem to remember a ruling on this, but I don't remember what it was."
Does anybody know what the ruling was? I'm not sure if it will make any real difference in my RAT match. But it would be nice if my opponent had to deal with the uncertainty of having to roll to succeed with his het.
Thanks to anyone that can answer this.
Starting to over-think myself a bit on rules. This is a ridiculously easy question but here it is:
Assume match is in a tourney room.
Assume we just entered the impulse of being fully cloaked (ie, imp after end of fade out). The actual distance (true range) between ships is 7 hexes. Cloaked ship has ED'd and is at speed zero. Non-cloaked ship will now roll to retain lock on.
Equation is: P = S-(EW adjust) - RF + SF -4
P probability of retaining lockon
S sensor rating of ship trying to lockon
EW EW adjustment
RF Range adjustment factor
SF Speed adjsutment factor
G13.331 contains the charts I'm using to come up with RF and SF.
1. Is the "EW adjust" factor ignored in a tourney room? If not, under what circumstances would it be used?
2. Have I plugged in the right values here:
-1(P) = 6(S) - 1(RF) -2(SF) -4? In this case, since the probability is less than 1, there is no chance of retaining lock on?
3. Was I correct in using the CLOAKED SHIP'S speed in the Speed Adjustment Factor chart?
4. Was it correct to subtract the 2 SF points since the equation would be calling for the addition of a negative number?
Sorry so simple. I've reaquainted myself with the rules but have entered a weird phase of over-thinking them and chasing my tail a bit.
Thanks
1. Almost always in tournament this is 0. If the opponent is playing a Vudar, you may have an IPG effect.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
1. WW rules can be confusing, but since they can not loan to cloaked ships, and roll for cloak lock-on take place after becoming fully cloaked, the EW they provide never applies to equation.
A little bit of clarification.
1. Plasma has built in ECCM, that is used in the EW portion of the formula, when a plasma is trying to retain lockon.
Here are a couple handy tables for dealing with cloak. They assume the ship has a sensor rating of '6' and no EW shift, which are usually the case in tourney play.
Retaining Lockon Versus Cloak
True
Range | Chance in 6 at maneuver rate |
|
| 0 | 1-4 | 5-8 | 9-12 | 13-15 | 16-17 | 18 | 19+ | | 0 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | | 1-4 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | | 5-10 | -1 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | | 11-15 | -2 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | | 16-20 | -3 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | | 21-30 | -4 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | 31-40 | -5 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | | 41+ | -6 | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 |
|
Gaining Lockon Versus Cloak
True
Range | Chance in 6 at maneuver rate |
|
| 0 | 1-4 | 5-8 | 9-12 | 13-15 | 16-17 | 18 | 19+ | | 0 | -5 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | | 1-4 | -6 | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | | 5-10 | -7 | -5 | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | | 11-15 | -8 | -6 | -5 | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | | 16-20 | -9 | -7 | -6 | -5 | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | | 21-30 | -10 | -8 | -7 | -6 | -5 | -4 | -3 | -2 | | 31-40 | -11 | -9 | -8 | -7 | -6 | -5 | -4 | -3 | | 41+ | -12 | -10 | -9 | -8 | -7 | -6 | -5 | -4 |
|
Tnx Andy. Indeed, I'll ask PF to add them to the client.
Once a drone rack is destroyed in a tourney match, can it be repaired and drones from another rack transferred to it?
Tim Kinnaird:
Yes, perfectly legal. Just seldom done because it means taking a rack out of service to unload drones, and most opponents will press the issue.
Tim Kinnaird:
I will add that the usual reason to repair a drone rack in the tournament is not to load more drones onto it, but because the repair drone rack now serves as a "buffer" to protect the other drone racks. By repairing a destroyed drone rack you can score your next "drone" damage point on it rather than the other racks which still have drones loaded in them.
Reloading a repaired rack does occasionally happen, though, usually because the player unloaded a drone or two from a SP on turn 1.
Andy Vancil:
And covered by the ". . . just seldom done . . ." There are few players who take the risk that they may not need their scatter-pack on Turn #1, or that at the point they try to implement the reload plan the empty rack will be destroyed again while it is being reloaded, resulting in the drones being destroyed in any case.
Just because something is legal, and might work, does not mean that it is going to work. There are flies in the ointment.
Regarding the previous posts on the number of players at Origins. I suppose you could view it as sad that the number has declined. However it is fantastic achievement that the game has maintained interest with a community for nearly 32 years. This long run is also a testament to Steve Cole and ADB's skill and dedication to running a small business. I began playing in 1984, with a friend who finally opened a Designer's edition that had been sitting on the shelf shrink-wrapped for over a year. It seemed like it had been around for quite a while even back then!
I've been to 4 origins (85, 86, 87 and 94). 85 was just standardizing the tournament format. I noticed a substantial increase in the quality of opponents over that time. In 85 and 86, there were a meaningful minority of opponents who didn't know what they were doing in the first rounds. The Gorn anchor was unexpected to these guys. In 94, I didn't play a single easy game.
Question: We are on split shield, but I have my opponent in tractor. IIRC this mean any fire will be on the shield of the targets choosing, correct?
I couldn't find anything about it in my rulebook, ecxept it would fall under the rule for ambigous situations (D3 something).
Grraven and I saved our NK semi game at this point so an answer would be appreciated.
You use (D3.43-C), see the note toward the end of that rule. In the tourney, you use (D3.43-C3).