Currently the probe is way underutilized.

How about a probe that DOESN'T require power. You'd have to buy these with CO.

Or how about a probe that takes in information about EVERYTHING in a hex. So you could probe all the drones in a stack...

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 04:54 pm: Edit

How about a probe that requires a LOT of power to identify EVERYTHING in a hex and can only be acquired through CO.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Just tossing out ideas.

I have always thought the probe should be a bit more useful in combat.

And given the power requirements probes are about never used...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 05:23 pm: Edit

How about a probe that explodes and destroys everything in the target hex? I'm just thinking out loud.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 05:50 pm: Edit

Nah. I was lookign for something that is an incremental improvement. IIRC currently the probe shows no improvement for about forever.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Not much does improve, at least, not after Y120. Well, ok, derfacs, uim, proxies, and X-ships, but tractors don't change after Y120, neither do labs, or hull, or cargo.

Seriously, the probe is the least important thing in SFB and does the game need the complexity of "oh, we are playing a scenario after megaprobes came out, just a second while I change my EAF."

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 06:13 pm: Edit

To point, drones and plasma both improve as well after that point, as do web, IPGs, and ESGs.

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 06:18 pm: Edit

How about doubling the range to ID something (12 hexes out)

Or how about allowing the probe to act as a ECM cutter for one impulse. (i.e. Probe is fired at a ship 6 hexes out, it detonates/descrambles the enemy ship's ECM by a factor of 3 for the firing ship until the next impulse)

No change in power and each probe has to be bought separately as an CO option

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 06:21 pm: Edit

I've always wanted a mine probe. I recall being told that was WAY to powerful against drones, though.

I would actually rather see a probe that could flash cube a hex, hitting everything with 1 or 2 natural ECCM.

It wouldn't void a cloak or anything like that and wouldn't be cumulative, but it would tell you if a cloaked ship is IN that hex (under hidden movement) and would also tell you the direcction of movement (usually known but sometimes not... like in the case of tactical maneuvers or reverse movement).


Also, I'd like to see a longer lasting probe or longer ranged probe. I've always wanted to see a special seeking probe. Not exactly a probe drone (it could not be launched from drone racks), but one that can loiter. Maybe just fire it in a hex and it loiters there up to range 8 (armed probes would still be restricted to six). Could make it a basic advancement for a certain year like Advanced Admins.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 09:16 pm: Edit

Trying to remember how TOS (The Old Series) handled probes... wasn't it just a instrument package that basically was a "throw away" telemetry thing?

one method that could improve the situation might be to allow a star ship to configure probes differently... say a "type I Probe" (or other terminology) works exactly as the published probe rules state... the next iteration (call it type Beta Probe, or maybe taurus or a astrological term for example) uses 2 probes, linked together and costs 2 times as much power to prep) and yeiled 150% of the information that a vanilla probe would have provided).

the third type (aquarius or maybe scorpion or something) costs 3 times as much power to prepare, and provides 175% of the information that a vanilla parobe would (in a single turn) and so on.

if time is limited in a scenario, a better quality probe package might be an attractive option for players in later years (say post general war years).

might not want to introduce changes in earlier years as most published scenarios might be affected by improved probes (for those needing to gather information in a limited span of time).

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 09:36 am: Edit

Fast charged probes: You spend two points of reserve power to charge an Info probe for immediate use.

By Jim Cummins (Jimcummins) on Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Or maybe new functionality...
A) Extended range
B) Extended duration
C) Providing "free" ECCM under certain conditions
D) Can be set to blast ECM into a specific hex to have a chance to break seeking weapon lock-ons.
E) Or the blast can be set give "natural" ECM for an impulse or two when targeted on a ship.
F) Act a control relay to maintain control of drones behind a planet.
G) Be configured to act a transport relay to extend the range for TB deployment.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Old thread, but a new thought.

what if the main improvement to probes was increased range?

If memory serves, the "normal" published probes have a range of up to 6 hexes. why not let advanced probes (say after year 202 or something long past the General War years) have double the range (up to 12 hexes) compared to the original probe? Or call the original probes class 1, and the advanced probes class 2?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 11:32 pm: Edit

At 12 hexes would you roll two dice for use as a weapon?
It would be a screwy result curve but maybe that would be fine if ships carried both types.

All ships get a set(s) of five which are two T2 and three T1.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 12:46 am: Edit

Loren,

The cart could be designed to make it easier to get a successful result at short ranges and more difficult numbers to hit at long range (say results of 2 to 12 at ranges 1&2, progressing up to max range of 12 requires a '12' result on 2 dice.

I would respectfully suggest that all ships carry their full load of type 1 probes as part of the basic BPV cost of the ship, type 2 probes only available for purchase with commanders options.

By Reid Hupach (Gwbison) on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 03:28 pm: Edit

well maybe a survey ship could get 2 in their start package

maybe a scout could have 1

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Ya, they could, or perhaps with an additional probe type available, certain ships (those with more than one probe launcher) might have additional type 2 rounds of probes added to the SSD to represent the new technology probes.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 08:05 pm: Edit

You can extend their range for information-gathering purposes without increasing their accuracy as a weapon.

(We already have a weapon similar to a weapon-probe in the game, after all. Direct fire, 2+2 warp to arm with an antimatter charge, 8 points of damage . . . )

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 08:18 pm: Edit

I like that idea, Steven.

Probes tend to be used as emergency weapons after damage has rendered the other weapons (in the case of the Federation, Photons and phasers) unusable.

Your suggestion would prevent ships with type 2 probes actually improving their combat BPV compared to ships with the original style probes.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:13 am: Edit

Well, if I could get a probe out to 12 only for information purposes I'd probably still fire one at least once every scenario.

I'd still like an accross the board upgrade to all empires ships that would say, "Two of every five probes are advanced probes starting Yxxx."

I can agree with Advanced Probes as a weapon being the same as old probes (i.e, range 6 only).

X2 could get something even newer.

Seems like post General War would be perfect like say, Y190 or so. Or, as a galactic coalition against the Andromedans.

There would be an effect vs monsters to consider.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 01:40 am: Edit

What effect verses monsters do you suggest?

I don't have my rules with me, but IIRC one of the monster victory conditions is a table that a player rolls a die after achieving a set number of data points (200 if memory serves).

That result is something to the effect "monster may be killed by anti mater probe...) what better effect could you want it to have?

(well... I suppose something like "player may teach monster new trick such as roll over or fetch the nearest andromedan satilite ship.")

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:38 pm: Edit

With a range 12 probe ships can gather data from a safer range.
So there is a balance issue to deal with.

So, balance is not an issue between empires if everyone gets them but you really can't give monsters an upgrade.
Limiting it to two of every five helps a bit but maybe there might be a victory point balance in the Advanced Probe rule applicable to all monster scenarios.

Range 12 probes might be a nice balancer for players of different skill levels.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 06:16 pm: Edit

It fits the same general catagory as drone upgrades IMO.

Don't know what other kinds of technology upgrades you could do with probes though.

By Mike Kenyon (Mikek) on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Probes that fire as overloaded photons

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Using a probe for an ECM widget (just to cover all the bases)