Xander- I have found joining a FOG game in the middle of action, playing a race you are unfamiliar with offensively, in a role that doesn't involve smashing face, becoming intimate with 100 pages of the rulebook you weren't familiar with while trying not to hinder fleets objectives in fulfilling your role. Awesome character building experience and steepens your learning curve dramatically. I haven't studied this hard since college. ;-) Now that winter is here I may have time on the weekends to play SFBOL. So I appreciate you asking all the questions ahead of time.;-D

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 04:02 pm: Edit

Troy,

I think you may have wandered into the wrong topic...

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 04:09 pm: Edit

The PPgff package is a high power package; the FFgff package is a low power package.

It's comparing watermelons to lightbulbs.

The purpose of a low-power package is that it lets you cloak, or threaten to cloak, and makes the opponent have to respect the option of you ducking under.

And yes, gats make everything better.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Ken, tnx for this insight: "The purpose of a low-power package is that it lets you cloak, or threaten to cloak, and makes the opponent have to respect the option of you ducking under. "

I was thinking low-high in terms of amount of reinforcement, but that is not all of it obviosly.

Maybe I should stick to the FFgff then. It certainly can cloak well^^

By Clayton Krueger (Krieg) on Saturday, October 23, 2010 - 08:01 am: Edit

'F' = fusion and 'f' = f torp? Or is it the opposite? And are you reading ABCDE in the option mount locations?

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, October 23, 2010 - 09:36 am: Edit

ABC are the nose mounts.

DE are the wing mounts.

The wing mounts can only be P1 (1), B rack (b), or Fusion (f).

Other weapons are generally the first letter of the name, capitalized for a torp or drone hit weapon, lower case for a phaser, so:

-P: Photon
-F: F Torp
-D: Disruptor
-H: Hellbore
-g: Gatling

So a HHgbb is Hellbore, Hellbore, Gatling in the nose and a B Rack in each wing.

None of this is enshrined anywhere as a rule, it is just sort of traditional notation.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 08:19 pm: Edit

How well does the current ISC tournament ship pan out?

I haven't seen a lot of them in the "Victory At..." articles I've read in Captain's Log; or rather, written about from the POV of a captain flying it (as opposed to flying against it).

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Gary, the ISC TCC is probably the second or third best TC after the Kzinti and Firehawk.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 01:35 am: Edit

I thought the TKE was the best? :p

By Jonathan Biggar (Jonb) on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 11:26 am: Edit

Only if your name is Tim.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 09:33 pm: Edit

Is there anything in particular that makes the ISC so good?

Sorry if it sounds odd to hear, but I'm more used to the historical ISC ship designs than the tournament version.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 09:39 pm: Edit

I don't know that I'd put it in the top 3, but it is pretty good.

It has plasma, which is good, and the PPD to back it up. Plasma generally results in people running away from you a lot. The PPD is extra good when people are running away from you. The main disadvantage to the PPD is that if someone gets in close, the PPD doesn't fire anymore. But to get in close, they need to eat a lot of plasma. As a result, a lot of synergy in the ship design.

When the ISC will generally do is close on its opponent, launch an enveloped G torp or a pair of standard G torps and fir the PPD. If your opponent keeps getting close, he eats a lot of PPD damage and then a bunch of plasma damage. If he turns and runs from the plasma, you get time to reload the PPD and do it again.

That, and a lot of games vs the PPD come down to a brutal guessing game--if you plan on the ISC running away and it stops and TACs, you get killed. If you plan on the ISC stopping and TACing and it runs, you get killed.

Again, I don't think it is the best TC in the game or anything, but it is reasonably strong and does well cross the board.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 09:55 pm: Edit

In principle, could you use the ship as a two-turner, with fast-loading the G-launchers as -Fs?

(I'm not sure if you can do that under tournament rules.)

Also, in a tournament environment, how effective is the PPD? (For me, it's hard not to think of it in terms of the way it was re-written for FC; I guess I don't quite have the same feel for how it might operate in its original form.)

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Gary wrote:
>>In principle, could you use the ship as a two-turner, with fast-loading the G-launchers as -Fs? >>

Sure. The ISC does that all the time. And gets to benefit from the rule that states that you don't know what kind of torp is launched from a launcher, just warhead strength--so when the ISC launches a 20 point warhead from it's G launcher on the second turn after the last one, you don't know if it is a 2 turn F torp or a pseudo G torp (until it moves 6 hexes).

>>Also, in a tournament environment, how effective is the PPD?>>

Pretty effective. It does, what, upwards of 20-24 damage per firing at ranges 10-15. More if you can pull off the overload (which is hard to do, but something that is worth trying to set up). The more often the PPD gets fired, the more likely the ISC is to win a given game, so it tends to try and set up multiple firing opportunities by firing the PPD at the same time that it has significant amounts of plasma on the board (i.e. 40 regular or an enveloper). Assuming your opponent doesn't want to just run into all your plasma (which isn't necessarily a good assumption, but not an unreasonable one), you'll score PPD damage and get separation to reload and fire again. Your opponent generally wants to minimize your ability to do this, which will often result in them just running into your plasma, which sometimes works well for them, sometimes not.

>> (For me, it's hard not to think of it in terms of the way it was re-written for FC; I guess I don't quite have the same feel for how it might operate in its original form.)>>

I don't know how it works in FC (I only have the first FC rules set). In SFB, it fires 4 times over 4 impulses, doing 1-4-1 or 1-3-1 damage (or less), where the big element hits the facing shield and the two side elements hit the adjacent shields. You can fire an overloaded PPD, which fires 6 shots over 6 impulses instead of 4, but still has a maximum range of 8 (and minimum of 4), making it hard to use--you can really only ever pull off an OL PPD if:

A) You are stopped and your opponent is charging you, but not at speed 31 (i.e. it has to spend 6 impulses in range 4-8).

or

B) You are behind your opponent and pursuing him in the appropriate range bracket.

I've rarely seen (A) happen. (B) happens when people go out of their way to set it up--close on turn #1, get to about R8, launch 60 points of plasma (2xG torps and one of the F torps), hope your opponent turns off, and then fire the OL PPD as they run away and do a lot of damage (36 total spread over their rear shields). Hard to set up, but effective if you can do it.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Peter, I consider the ISC to be a better tournament cruiser than the Gorn, and a weaker one than the Kzinti.

The standard opening for me is this:

1x EPT
1x rolling G
Hold PPD

Speed plot is usuually 24-17-26, timed so that I miss two impulses of movement in a row when doing the downshift.

The plan is to launch the EPT around range 13, slip outso that it gets 3 hexes or more of separation, and then watch what you do - against something with a lot of ph-3s, I'll stack the EPT and an F in the same hex.

The choice is "Eat the EPT to get your range 8 shot, or turn away."

If you turn away, I usually get to fire phasers and an overloaded PPD at range 7 or 8, overloading the PPD off of batteries.

One overloaded PPD+4-6 ph-is equals one down shield, or two very very weak ones. If I can arrange it the PPD is fired the impulse you turn away from the plasma.

I have rarely managed to do it, but sometimes I've gotten range 5 before firing the PPD. Nothing is quite so fun as a bolted G torp and phasers dropping a shield followed by a PPD into the down shield for the next 6 impulses. It can win the game for you right there (albeit it will cost you ALL of your battery power.)

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Ken wrote:
>>Peter, I consider the ISC to be a better tournament cruiser than the Gorn, and a weaker one than the Kzinti.>>

Yeah, it is better than the Gorn, and weaker than the Kzinti, but there are probably a bunch of ships in the space between as well.

The ISC is good against big plasma, but has a lot of trouble vs, say, the Kzinti and the Shark (which can eat everything it throws out and corner/mangle it); the Hydran (which just gatlings its little torps to death); the Orion and WAX (which can reinforce and corner/mug it). I think the ISC is certainly in the top half of TCs, but probably not the top 3, for my money. Maybe #6 (random guess there--I'd put the Kzinti, TFH, Klingon, ATC, and Orion ahead of it in terms of general utility).

By Jacob Karpel (Psybomb) on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 09:04 am: Edit

This is something I have to ask...

Is there a place to get a decent cliffs-notes rundown of how each of the Tournament ships run? I'm trying to get back into the swing of the game (including trying for a Flying Deuces), but since I have no real tournament experience myself some of the info is VERY hard to find. Before you ask, yes, I have been reading through this topic's archives :D.

Thanks in advance

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 11:08 am: Edit

Yes. Module T2000. Get it now.

By Jacob Karpel (Psybomb) on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 05:56 pm: Edit

I guess it was a stupid question Thanks for the quick response.

By Andrew J. Koch (Droid) on Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:34 am: Edit

No problem. I think it's just what you're looking for

By Brendan Lally (Brendan_Lally) on Monday, February 28, 2011 - 12:53 am: Edit

So as I try to expand my toolbox of capable ships I decide to play the Hydran. In this match-up I get the Lyran. "yay". My tactical hypothesis.

T1 20/26 split 15+5 brick on flank shield (6) with the idea of taking his shot to reply with phasers on rear flank shield and position to chase. The ESGs will drop the following tun and may allow subsequent OL HBs on T3. Hold the fighters for later use Or launch after LYR fire.

T2 High speed chase with discretionary power for anchor or depending on Lyran's path HB (or even 2).

T3 anchor, fusion, fighters, or HB and the due the latter on T4

Thoughts and comments?

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, February 28, 2011 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Make sure you aren't counter tranctored and thus unable to launch fighters.

Unlikely he will "release" his ESGs unless you are committed to a close range pass on turn one. If you read the recent CL stories of rated aces the darn ESG gets held a lot (since it holds for free, is expensive to rearm and its threat is almost as valuable as its use sometimes)...

Also consider holding a shuicide shuttle.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Monday, February 28, 2011 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Two suicide shuttles. Given how often the Hydran needs to get to R0-1 to win, you'll probably get the chance to use them. You do have two shuttle bays, after all. So does he.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Monday, February 28, 2011 - 10:58 pm: Edit

AND it will take a lot of damage to destroy them before launch.

By Brook J. Villa (Brookie) on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 05:26 pm: Edit

I think the the Lyran/Hydran matchup is a fun one. I don't ever play the hydran, but I do fly the Lyran quite often. When I am matched up against the Hydran I always put up both of my esgs at range 0 power 5. This provides an excellent shield for his hellbores. You must be careful not to activate the ESG's if your Hydran opponent can just run away and wait for them to come down. However, if the hydran want's to engage you just set up a battle pass in which you can fire at range 4 and take off. Your only purpose on this pass is to strip a few weapons off his ship. The next turn is the tricky one. You must stay out of ranges 0,1,and 2. Even range 3 is bad because of his phaser 3's. After the first battle pass I hardly ever arm disruptors again. My thoughts are primarily concentrating on speed, anti-tractor and recharging my phaser capacitors. Some times I'll even pre allocate a het. Just dance around his down shield and keep taking pot shots as the opportunites present themselves. If he goes slow, then run away, reload and try for another battle pass with disruptors.

I give the Lyran an edge in this fight. However a craft Hydran will most likely chase you down. You just have to make sure that you've pulled some of his teeth before he does. That way you can survive his alpha, which happens to be the scariest in the game at close range.