Double wing destroyer.

Its got a G torp, and 4 F torps and has shock when 3 plasma are fired within too short a period.

By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Isn't the DDW one of those completely conjectural ships?

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Peter, G3 lists the DDW as RPU.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:11 pm: Edit

Which module is the DDW from?

It sounds like it has the same weapons as the Gunfighter Destroyer which is conjectural, and for a reason.

By Mike Johnson (Akira) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:12 pm: Edit

About to post the latest rules update here. Some recent developments:

1. NFP ships will be allowed.
2. I am going to make some exceptions to the Y175 rule for empires who got some of their better hulls a couple years after everyone else. Current exceptions include the Fed DW and Neo-Tholian NDD. If you have a ship within a couple years of Y175 you just gotta have let me know and I will consider it. However all player battles will still take place in Y175 for tech level purposes.
3. Rules for Orion weapons availability are included (basically you must choose plasma or disruptor/drone).

Comments are invited regarding these changes. I want to be as inclusive of players as possible without overbalancing in anyone's favor but it;s a fine line- let me know if I cross it!

By Mike Johnson (Akira) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:13 pm: Edit

My MRB says the DDW is from R9, status RPU. It's allowed unless I hear some strong objections.

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Mike, given the Peladine have been restored to the library, are they eligable for play?

Not a deal-breaker for me, just want to know. ;)

By John M Ledbetter (Daltwisney) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:15 pm: Edit

The DDW is a unique prototype ship from Module R9. It was a design built in competition with the BDD for an upgraded Destroyer. It has a lot of Plasmas, but didn't really gain much power (+2 IMP), and its #3 and #5 shields are a lowly 10 boxes. (Details like that are important to Hydrans, who, incidentally, like ECPs even less than ECM Drones).

A note to the Tholians: To collect a toll, you must actually be blocking access to something someone wants, so sitting in a corner, polishing your heads in a spin-cycle doesn't elicit much interest, unless the Klingons decide they want your marble collection.

By Mike Johnson (Akira) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:15 pm: Edit

Squadron Commander campaign rules version 2.0
1.0 SUMMARY: Command a squadron of destroyers through multiple scenarios with a chance to win an extension to your SFBOL subscription! Pick your empire, pick your ships, and start flying a series of scenarios as defined by the GM. Earn victory points based upon the success level of each mission, the speed at which missions are completed, and how much fun you make it for everyone through in-game chatter as well as postings to the BBS.
1.1 CAMPAIGN GOALS: The only goal is to have fun. Fun = happy players = larger SFB community on SFBOL. To help achieve this, the author has endeavored to remove limits on empire selections; reduce the incentive (and ability) to “metagame” or “munchkinize” fleets; encourage chatter, smack-talk, and general kibitzing; and finally give each player as much control as possible over the pace of the campaign.
2.0 SHIP SELECTION RULES: Each player will be allowed to choose their empire. Multiple selections of the same empire are allowed. Players will also be allowed to choose which ships they will use with the following restrictions:
a. All ships must be from the same empire.
b. All ships must be size class 4.
c. All ships must be destroyers, war destroyers, or variants thereof as defined on the Master Ship Chart. Races which do not clearly define destroyers will require a ruling from the GM. HDWs with NWOs are prohibited.
d. Must follow fleet composition rules as defined in S8.
e. No ships with a status of CAM, CAP, CNJ, IMP, UNV. One UNQ ship is allowed per squadron.
f. Ships must have been available in Y175. Certain exceptions may be granted for empires that get some of their better ships a couple of years later, please ask the GM is you would like an exception.
a. Current ships that are granted exceptions: Fed CW and variants, Neo-Tholian NDD
g. Total Gross Adjusted BPV of the squadron (as defined in S2.14) PLUS cost of any fighters cannot exceed 325 combat BPV.
h. With the exception of scouts all BPV calculations will be made using combat BPV.
i. Certain empires just have better destroyers than others- the Feds, LDR, and Orions as examples. Anyone choosing one of these empires may be asked to tone them down a bit with regard to firepower. The GM will entertain all ship selections and decide on any necessary adjustments.
a. Orions will use the rules in G15, U7.113 and R1.8. Players can choose to be either from a cartel in disruptor/drone territory or plasma territory, which in this campaign will mean 70% of their weapons will be one of those types, 20% can be Federation, and 10% from elsewhere (no andro or extragalactic tech).
3.0 CAMPAIGN FORMAT: The campaign will use a format similar to the Captain’s game. There will be three phases per year, each lasting four months. During each phase there will be four scenarios, generally including two battles versus another player and two scenarios. The battles will be versus one historical and one non-historical enemy. At least one of the scenarios will not require an opponent so that it can be flown at any time. The scenarios will be designed to test both combat and non-combat capabilities, and unusual terrain may also be encountered. Be prepared!
At the end of the four months the next phase will begin with four different scenarios following the same general format (though the GM reserves the right to mix it some!). Players can drop at any time, and new players can join at the start of each phase.
4.0 VICTORY CONDITIONS: At the end of each phase each player who has completed all four scenarios will be awarded victory points. These will be a combination of three factors:
a. Victory points from each scenario as defined in S2.
b. How quickly the four scenarios were completed.
c. Level of “fun” provided to everyone through in-game chatter and postings to the BBS (smack-talk, battle reports, etc.). The GM will assign points here; also players can nominate other players for bonus points if they particularly enjoyed a battle against them.
5.0 PRIZES: At the end of each phase, the top one or two players will earn a three month extension to their SFBOL subscription. Number of prizes is based on number of participants: one prize for 2-6 players, two prizes for 7+ players.
Remember part of the victory points are determined by player participation both in-game and out. The GM will have visibility to posts on the BBS, but remember you can recommend another player for in-game fun as well that the GM may not see.
6.0 REPAIRS AND RESUPPLY: Within each phase, squadrons can resupply twice per phase. This restores all drones, shuttles, mines, etc. to all ships in the squadron. Between each scenario all ships can repair all shields, all control boxes, all damage control, and all sensor and scanner damage plus an additional number of boxes equal to three times their damage control rating.
Once per phase a single ship can be replaced at no cost. The replacement can be any ship that fits within the ship selection rules and does not have to be the same as the ship being removed. For example a Federation squadron of 3xDD could swap out one DD for an SC using this rule. The replacement ship stays with the squadron for the remainder of the phase. This may be done either to add a needed capability to the squadron, to replace a crippled or destroyed ship, etc.
Destroyed ships can be replaced between scenarios as often as needed but will cost the player 100% of the ship BPV as lost victory points. Note that this only applies to destroyed ships; a player cannot simply exchange one ship for another at will (with the single replacement exception noted above).
Expendables and commander’s options can be changed between each scenario.
7.0 TECHNOLOGY AND REFITS: All scenarios will take place in Y178 or later. The year of the scenario will drive what commanders options, drone speeds, refits, etc. are available. These advanced technologies can be used so long as they do not increase squadron BPV above the limit defined in 2.0. So a Romulan Squadron could use sabot torpedoes and ECPs in a scenario taking place in Y182 assuming they could pay the cost of the sabot refits. A Kzinti squadron in the same year could purchase fast drones, all ships could buy A-Admins,etc.
Note that this rule only affects expendables, commanders options, and refits. No ships can be converted, and no X-tech is allowed.
8.0 SCENARIO INFORMATION: Player versus player duels will be one duel versus an historical opponent and a second against a random draw of other players. Duels will take place on a fixed map (42x30); any ship leaving the map will disengage. The remaining two scenarios will be drawn from the scenario books, Captain’s Logs, modules, or anywhere else they may be found. At least one scenario will be single-player to allow campaign progress without waiting for an opponent. Scenarios requiring an opponent may be flown by anyone, online or offline, to allow maximum flexibility in scheduling.
During phase 1, each squadron will be escorting six freighters (2xF-L, 4xF-S). These will not take part in player duels (they’ll be a safe distance away, off-map). They will take part in other scenarios according to the rules of those scenarios.
9.0 WEAPONS STATUS AND STARTING POSITIONS: For player versus player duels, fleets will start in opposite corners (NE to SW or NW to SE), speed max, weapons status III, and year will be 178. These factors will be defined in other scenarios on a case-by-case basis.

By Mike Johnson (Akira) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:19 pm: Edit

Dale- Peladine are in!

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:39 pm: Edit

Sweet!

Well after all that fuss I'd feel silly not playing them, so sign me on for the Peladine. ;)

Will work on my squadron ASAP.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 07:40 pm: Edit

The DDW is a unique prototype ship from Module R9.

Thanks. I will check it out on SFBOL tonight. Sounds like a monster of a ship.

Then again, the Fed DD+ is a monster of a ship.

GFB and I have done a LOT of chatting about ships and one thing Im not sure about is what is going on with the Rom SPL vs say the Gorn DDF. Similar weapons but the Rom is 30 BPV more. Is this really how much a cloak costs?

Im pretty sure 3xDDF would beat an SPL and 2xSPA even though they are 50 BPV less.

/Rant

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 08:05 pm: Edit

I'm assuming you mean SKL - SPL is a war cruiser.

Given that, besides the cloak, there are advantages the SKL has over the DDF.

Gorn DDF
SHIELDS: 18/14/10/10.

Rom SKL+:
SHIELDS: 24/24/24/24.

Gorn DDF
Total power: 16+2+2 = 20, w/2x BTTY.

Rom SKL+:
Total power: 16+2+6 = 24, w/6x BTTY.

Gorn DDF
Turn mode/HET: C, 4-6.

Rom SKL+
Turn mode/HET: A, 6.

Plasma loadout is identical, although the arcs are different.

Phasers: Gorn DDF has 3x ph-1, 2x ph-3.
SKL+ has 4x ph-1, 4x ph-3.

The SKL+ also has more Tractors, equal shuttles, and equal hull. And of course, it has a cloak.

A ship's not made of weapons alone.

By John M Ledbetter (Daltwisney) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 08:07 pm: Edit

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Quote:

A ship's not made of weapons alone.

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By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 08:13 pm: Edit

It has 5 plasmas true, but its well within reason considering the ships some races have.

Even the ISC DDL with 2 G 2 F and no shock is probably a comparable ship.

Yes cloak can be very powerfull if the cloak chart is kind. The gorn and rom have there equal weapons but when the rom can cloak to recharge I think that should have a big cost premium.

UNQ is allowed as warship status for this.

CNJ isn't, there really was one double wing DD built, so I have no problem seeing one in these squadrons squadrons.

Jaspar im confused the SPL i just looked up, its a light command cruiser. Got alot more meat on its bones than the double wind DD. Did you mean the SKL?

Looks comparable to an ISC DDG also if you mean the SPL.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Yeah I can see why the Rom costs more, big power and shield advantage and there are probably double the ph 3 protecting the ph 1's.

For ECF, I really think the NDD since its got an exception to the YIS would help you so much. Also since you dont' have ECM drones or plasma maybe a scout would be another option.

Sorry I missed the game.

Maybe you can get sweet revenge against my peackeepers.

Its DDL/DD/DD all with the F refit.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Dale and Josh, the disadvantage of the SKL (yes I meant this not SPL - not sure why I said that) and the DDL is that you can only take 1 of them. You can take 3xDDF, and with the DDW, you can take one of those and a BDL and a BDD or DDF.

So combined you end up with a LOT more plasma for your money with the Gorns.

I actually think ISC DDL, 2xDD is reasonable given the ISC DD is fairly weak. So the DDL makes up for it.

With the Gorn, none of the BDL/DDW/BDD/DDL are what you would consider weak ships. And on a small map, I would put my money on this combo matching it with probably everyone other than a LDR DW/DD/SC squadron which should destroy everything, except perhaps a Hydran fleet - depending on what they chose.

In terms of EW, I really dont think the ECP is going to do much before Sabot. You are trapped at a set speed which is not a pleasant thing.

By Christopher M Schrader (Eastcoastfolk) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:06 pm: Edit

First, I thank you for the offer of NDD availability but i am not looking for special exemptions. One of the challenges of a camp like this is to overcome those types of limitations.

I do have a question on rules 2.0 if available Y175 and 7.0 scenarios take place y178 and later: If i have ships that at y175 add up to almost 325BPV and a scenario takes place after a refit can I pick and choose what ships get improved to stay under 325BPV.

Rule 9.0 is it speed max or speed (up to) max for prior turn. If speed max then Tholians could not start in a pinwheel with a 0 point web around it(allowed under WSII), or have a pinwheel and a 10 point web around it (allowed under WSIII). I will deal with it either way.

Note to John:

I can move at speed 1 in a pinwheel (without the web) so I will find you ... eventually ... or tow the pinwheel with the 4th DD at speed 7 (pleas don't shoot the towing ship).

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Re: "Find you eventually"... is rule (S2.27) in play? In my campaign, we found this an excellent way to keep coweri... errr, nonagressive... Tholians and Romulans in check. ;)

By John M Ledbetter (Daltwisney) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:11 pm: Edit

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Quote:

In terms of EW, I really dont think the ECP is going to do much before Sabot. You are trapped at a set speed which is not a pleasant thing.

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Quote:

pleas don't shoot the towing ship

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By Christopher M Schrader (Eastcoastfolk) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Red Rover, Red Rover, send your ships on over. Now how fast can I get the web to 30 power??

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 10:25 pm: Edit

If my Gorn fleet is considered too strong, I have no issues on switching the ships or even taking another race.
Besides, it will look bad when I lose with this supposedly strong Gorn Fleet !


Might be best for me to take an underdog race !

No mention of Klingons so I may try them out before the 18th ?

Or maybe Ted's favorite race, the Xorkians !


Cheers
Frank

By Christopher M Schrader (Eastcoastfolk) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 10:26 pm: Edit

I found a practical limit for the starting strength of web set up before a scenario. G(10.8) costs the BPV on a per web hex/per power *.25. ie a 6 hex Web around a pinwheeled Tholian at 0 power is free, at 1 power costs 1.5 BPV, 2 power cost 3BPV ..

I would only have 5 BPV free to use with 4 DD's, a 6 hex web at 3.25 power would cost me 4.875BPV and after that I would have to add power from turn 1 on.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Or just say no laying of web because it is just plain annoying.



Otherwise people will ask to have minefields set up (can I take a Minelayer???).

By John M Ledbetter (Daltwisney) on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 11:24 pm: Edit

Another point would be that unless you know you will be the defender in a battle, why would you even have web set up beforehand?

Why would you risk setting up a defensive position in a chance encounter when you could simply disengage?

The pinwheel is designed to allow a group of smaller ships to hold off attackers until reinforcements arrive (primarily). I think you'll have a looooooong wait.

Not that you aren't free to experiment, I just question the practicality of the Star Castle as an offensive maneuver.