Archive through July 08, 2011
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Archive through July 08, 2011
Frank- yes I will announce all players and force selections. Speaking of which does anyone have some web space they could lend me to host a web site? Be warned I have no experience with web stuff so I may need help with designing and updating the page.
I am good with Excel, so I will likely create a spreadsheet with each player's info and progress through each phase. If the campaign continues to run for a while I plan to leave past phase information up for posterity.
Something else to think about... this is by no means required, but I think it would be cool for everyone to come up with some background info on their squadron. Ship names, whether it is a newly assembled force out of shipyard or a battle-tested group of veterans, squadron commander's favorite beverage, etc. Who knows, maybe someday a story for Captain's Log could come out of this.
LOL I actually thought about fliver but 3xDD (or 2xDD and 1xDS) didn't seem to have much pow regardless of their insane movement. 4 ph1 + 4 drone launchers per (granted super drones) seemed way to easy to defend against.
As for alpha, I'm mostly avoiding them. The few alpha races I fly just aren't competitive in this SC with this point value, i.e. 3 Battlehawks or Zin (2xDD, 1xDS) won't hold a candle to what the ISC, Fed, Orion, or LDR/Lyran will field here.
11 confirmed at this point and couple still waffling (you know who you are!)
Quickly, races chose so far:
Gorn
Hydran
ISC
Romulan
Souldra
Orion
Federation
Drex
Peladine
Tholian
Working on one of the sceanrios, I think you'll love it.
Anyone know what the YIS on a KB10R is?
G3 says Y175, but it's a date "arbitrarily assigned to a ship not actually built".
Mike,
Looks like we have 2 Gorn players.
I will switch my race to Klingons if that is ok ?
No civil wars this way !
Cheers
Frank
Frank,feel free to switch but a civil war is pretty unlikely.
Thanks Roger!
(that was a rhetorical question by the way).
I promise, no KB10Rs.
Declassified Communications Intercepts Y174
From: Tholian Security Services
To: Secretary of Transportation, Tholian Assembly
CC: Secretary of Isolation, Secretary of Resources, Director of Alien Contact, and Director of Border Integrity
Subject: Border Economic Security Transformation (BEST) Summery
Every alien race that is a threat to our security is now in conflict. The Klingon Empires still probes our border, but is more timid, unwilling to commit their ships. The Federation is recovering from the invasion of it's vast outer economic resources area, but is having difficulty pushing back their foes. The Romulans are securing there conquests from their initial assault into Federation occupied space. Independent armed vessels have withdrawn further from our security perimeter, harvesting resources from the now less well protected areas along our frontier.
This is the greatest opportunity to strengthen our perimeter from the time of our arrival. We must do this no mater what develops outside the areas of our concern. If the Federation can not recover from there initial defeats,Then the Klingon and Romulan forces may turn their attention toward us. A shared victory over the Federation may make it difficult to ferment hostilities between them. If the Federation restores there extensive influence along our frontier the Klingons and Romulans may be compelled to intrude into our border areas to maintain contact. A protracted period of conflict among our neighbors can not be secured by our actions alone.
After much debate in the Assembly the Holdfast has decided to establish trade routs to several non-aligned systems in the areas now free of regular patrols. The Bureau of Alien Contact has provided a list of independent worlds and outposts that can provide us with the most beneficial technology, equipment, and information. The Department of Resources is supplying surplus mineral, crystal, and even organic contaminates that are of high value to these aliens.
The Department of Isolation (DoI) would only consent to this operation under strict conditions. First, to limit contact each route is to be limited to one circuit per breading cycle. Second, any communication with aliens will be conducted by Bureau of Alien Contact (BAC) staff monitored by DoI enforcement officers. Third, unplanned encounters are to be avoided, only in the interests of protecting the overall mission are any contacts to be "engaged". Forth, this operation will be conducted as a formation, all units assigned to it will be kept in operational formation.
The Bureau of Border Integrity (BBI) has provided the largest force ever devoted to operations outside there mandated area. Last breading cycle one PC was removed from service from each border fleet and relocated to there supporting Starbase. This breading cycle they will emerge from refit as the DD's "Calcite", "Copper", "Barite" and join the DD "Pyrite" completing construction at our shipyard. These 4 DD's will be assigned to provide protection for the freighters your department has been assigned to provide to this operation.
Secretary this level of protection underscores how important these trade routs are to providing our race with strategic components necessary for developing the protective measures it needs to avoid the fate suffered by our forefathers.
The Tholian Security Services expect to have your allocation of vessels and merchant crew report to the operation staging area to begin the training and integration phase of BEST by the end of this breading cycle. We know the Department of Transportation will exceed the mandated minimums demanded by the Assembly.
I look forward to your SITREP.
Disodium Inosinate, Minister of Security
Well that is one of the few ways I could think of for 4 Tholian DD's to end up together when in the F&E order of battle the 4 they have are all in different fleets. Next up, The Minister of Transport Replies.
Actually according to the no FF policy there CAN'T be any Klingons. The F5W is YIS 176 which blocks it from use. The K refit and most variants other than Command are even later.
The F5C is called a Destroyer and I'd imagine it could be used. Of course that's up to Mike.
G3 has a big block of Klink Destroyers under "Destroyers" .. check your G3 block titles
Actually; it doesn't Peter.
G3 has no "Destroyers" heading for Klingons. It does have "HF5 Heavy War Destroyers", "F6 Battle Frigate", "F5W War Destroyer", "F5 Frigate" (all of them "and variants").
(Using the revised 2009 version of G3)
Of those, the F5W YIS is 176. The F5 is really too small for this scenario. The only other real options are the F6 and E6 which are both officially Battle Frigates and have YIS of respectively 176 and 177.
I guess the Klingons are restricted to C8/C9 booms? ;)
The F5C has "destroyer" plastered over the top of its SSD. I'd suggest it's a valid choice.
It would seem really odd to have a campaign with the Klingons disallowed.
Dale the F5C is under Frigate and Variants so since the ships have to be listed under G3 as Destroyers and FF's are blocked... (Shrug)
Booms/Saucers aren't listed under Destroyers either. So no joy there.
I'm not trying to be difficult just pointing out the problems with the rules as presented. I'm completely willing to work with the restrictions. But thats just it they ARE restrictions and I would be displeased if I followed the rules and someone else got waved on through.
I know you're not trying to be difficult, but if the GM (Mike) allows the F5C, I'm in complete support of that. It's called a "destroyer" and the Klingons need SOMETHING to fly. And I say that with the full realization that I'm liable to end up having to FIGHT the thing.
G3 is a good resource but it is not the final word; the GM is. The entire race I am playing is not even listed in G3 (the Peladine).
I really don't think having the F5C DESTROYER "hand-waved" is letting anyone "get away with anything". It's letting one of the core races of the game participate. Mike said earlier in his rules that he would be the aribiter of what is and is not allowed in the case of ambiguous situations.
Mike?
Really not sure why he didn't just rule anything with a 0.5 MC is a destroyer regardless of title (or is there some obvious abuse of this I am missing)
Note rule 2c "Races which do not clearly define destroyers will require a ruling from the GM."
I have to agree with Peter.
Even though the F5C/L is called "destroyer", it's also considered a leader variant, limiting it's deployment.
Allowing the F5W is only a small stretch in the timeline. The F5W isn't an impressive ship. I'd say it's a rather mediocre war destroyer. So allowing the Klingons to stretch the Y175 restriction wouldn't be a bad thing.
Peter a couple BIG loopholes in that 0.5 MC argument.
Fed DN(various)/C8 Booms. They are 0.5 MC and SC4. The Lyran DND "Destroyer" Believe me the Lion Cub is anything but a DD.
The F5C/L is a Leader it is named as a leader and is not to be considered a DD per the Steves. (Don't remember where they said this but they have in print.) So if you want to wave the deployment limit of Leader restrictions thats fine by me. BUT every other race should get to do the same thing. Not like the Feds actually have a DDL unlike the DWC. The DDL is specifically excluded from Leader restrictions per S8.
It's the complete blocking of FF's that cause the problem. Simply lift that restriction and poof you dont have to handwave the F5L or Back to the Future the F5W.
I really dont want to be a problem I really am looking at playing I just want to punch holes in the set up NOW then after we get going and have to do a restart wasting many ppl's time and effort. I went through a LOT of this before and am simply trying to offer cousel. I'll be willing to play pretty much regardless of the way things shake out simply because I'm sick to death of Tourney and would love to play in this sort of "limited" campaign setting.
I too think the no FF rule is a bummer.
In many cases DD's that were converted to carry fighters use FF and ES Escorts. If there are no FF or ES allowed then those empires haven't got the option of a carrier.
As for what is a DD and what is an FF, its really not clear to all of us in the case of the Klingons.
If the F5 is a frigate then the D6 isn't a cruiser at all its a battlecruiser, it says so at the top of the SSD. 
This would make the Klingons not have either a CA or DD. I think the Klingons simply named there cruisers and destroyers differently.
Have you seen what the Flivver are calling a BCH these days, alot of this is just to create the flavor of the empires fleets.
I think if you don't allow these munchkin DN booms that movement cost of 1/2 is a good indicator that its of DD size.
As for Klingon C/L varients, ive not seen where it says the F5C isn't whatever class the F5 is, FF or DD if you go by movement cost. They are leader ships and have there S8 rules limiting the number of them. But if the Steves say the F5C isn't a DD what else could they say it is but FF leader.
In the case of the F5, it moves like a DD, its definatly not an uber munchkin ship loaded with weapons. It is the Klingon DD equivalent, and the F5C must be its leader version. Call it a Frigate if you like, but the thing occupies the spot that in most races would be filled with DD's.
Klingons just arn't known for being the DD kings of the SFU.
I really think the E5 Battle Escort looks alot like an F5 except for its lower move cost of 1/3. Its 6 BPV more than the regular F5, and id bet that the Klingons of Y175 would favor it over the F5 because its got much better shielding and the lower move cost make the FX arc Disruptors even powerable.
I enjoyed the background the rockhead's created for his Squadron. I will come up with my background soon since it could be worth VP.
A Question on the Scenario's
The rules say the scenario's for the campaign can be drawn from many sources CL's, Scenario books, the rules modules etc.
What if I don't have that particular CL that the scenario came from. I have G3A which has the list of all the scenarios and there origin, year, empires, no of players. I having just came back to the game after many years am missing most of the CL's.
Will you be sending the scenario's to us, at least the important parts like setup hex, weapon status, special rules, and victory conditions when we don't have the scenario or do but cant find the book?
You asked about space for a webpage, unfortunatly I cant help there, but there is an alternative for sharing files between all the players. The Tholian introduced me to the website, its www.dropbox.com.
This would let us all share our files, some we wouldn't want on there but each player could have an area for there squadron and any history or background. Its free and the more people who are added to it the larger the web storage you get. It would let you share files of any type with us, and you don't have to know how to program a webpage to make it work. If you can create the file, that we can open with something like open office or some other free program you could create all sorts of cool stuff for this game. The BBS is probably best for most of our communications, but it would be nice to be able to share actual files. Email lets you do this if the file is small enough.
Kenneth- keep the punches coming, I agree we need to iron out as many wrinkles as possible before we get started.
I have to admit I've been using the 0.5 movement cost as a guideline myself to help determine whether a ship is a destroyer or not, but I'm hesitant to make it a general rule. For now the rules will stand as written- including no frigates.
An exception is hereby granted for the F5C, and as well as the F5W and variants. Hopefully that will provide enough choices to make the Klingons viable.
Can everyone please email me the following information. Yeah I have some of it already, but please do it anyaway just to be sure I have it right:
Name
SFBOL callsign (remember capitalization matters)
Email address you want campaign communications sent to
I'll continue to post rules updates on the BBS for now but once I have a complete list of email addresses I'll send the complete rules in an email blast.