Archive through January 14, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
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X-2 Minor Races:
Archive through January 14, 2003
I am assuming that X2 will keep the same history was Supplement 2 (meaning the major races pulled back from each other several F+E hexes).
This would leave a large volume of space un protected. I could see several former minor races (Federation members, Klingon slave races and the such, perhaps even the Peladine) suddenly finding freedom. They would want to protect themselves from pirates and each other. I see alot of minor empires cropping up.
Do people agree, if so what would be the best way to handle it?
There's always room for more races.
Whether or not they build X2 level cruisers or not is another story.
Jeff: I doubt that they could. Probably they would have to depend on Aux's and some surplus GW era ships for their fleets.
I wouldn't assume Supplement 2's history is valid. In fact I'd bet against it simply because it was printed in Supplement 2. Others have mentioned a new galactic foe called the Xorkellians but I don't know from where they are getting that information.
I noticed that Y1 never said that the Carnivions were whiped out.
My thought for a good X2 threat would be the Tholians managed to rise back against the Seltorians back home, and they import their war to the Milky Way, much to the GP's anger.
As for minor races, one thing I could see them doing is in addition to buying general war hulls, they might swap some of the gw systems for x2 systems, based on something like the orion option mounts. So that a minor race buys a d7b, and then takes the three foward phasers, replacing them with x2 phasers, maybe adding more batteries, maybe replace one of the missile racks with a x2 rack.
such ships would of course be inferior to x1 and x2 ships, but would serve for police, and border patrol duties.
One thing I am not sure I want to see is fully equiped orion x2 ships unless orion finally breaks away from the federation.
The best way for Orion to field X2 ships is for Orion to *stay* in the Federation.
Orions must keep pace with the technology defending the convoys or they're out of business.
The Orions don't need to keep pace with warships except in speed and stealth. Provided they can blow away an XPol or XQ-ship, and survive an XDD, they're still in business.
Survive? That's not enough.
If X2 DDs are regular convoy escorts, they have to be able to engage and win.
There's a natural escalation that Orions have to deal with. They can't be so successful that people demand and get better protection or they have to field better raiders.
or they just make sure they have the better raiders.
That is really only if 2X ships are used in such routine matters. Chances are, at best Orions will only see 1X ships; most empires will keep 2X ships on patrol and ready to respond to major incursions, not shepherd convoys. (Note, while I know that logistics and convoys are important parts of grand strategy, most empires will have their most advanced ships ready to respond to major incursions and attacks; even in the general war, unless a convoy had a very important cargo, you wouldn't find a BCH riding alongside it.)
This, of course, goes out the window if X2 is 'mass produced' and replaces GW-tech and 1X tech en masse.
Deleted duplicated post. ^_^;
Jonathan Mc Dermott,
Os there any reason to assume this won't happen?
Nope. 
None at all. But anything can happen. Supplement 2 said that the numbers of 2X cruisers were limited by treaty stipulations. Economic ones could just as easilly further limit 2X-ship construction. I'm not sure how much a CX costs in F&E in comparison to a CA or BCH, but it's got to be pretty high. If the economic production of the empires does not increase significantly, then X2-ships will be very expensive to produce, and therefore limited.
(Now, if the economic production of the empires improves thanks to the advance of technology, whih is possible, then it may be possible to produce X2 ships in great quantities, equivalent to the numbers of GW CAs/NCAs/BCHs.
Commander's X2 was a piece of crap.
The less conclusions and assumptions drawn from it the better.
The default escort for an X0 peacetime convoy is a Pol, Q ship, armed freighter or whatever, not a DD. Whilst a DD might be along for the ride, it's not the normal state of affairs, and an X0 pirate CR is balanced against a DD (compare the CR BPV of 92 with the Fed DD BPV of 94).
Likewise, the XCR will be balanced against an XDD. The XLR will be balanced against an XFF.
By 'survive' above, I meant that the pirate would be able to escape uncrippled, or have a good 40% chance of defeating the DD if required.
In the same way that the CA, CR and LR were replaced by the BCH, BR, DW, DBR and so on, it may happen that the Orions will eventually need bigger ships. They'll want an XCA enforcer. But they won't use it for routine piracy, just like the CA wasn't used for routine piracy in Y160.
If you know the X2 convoy is defended, you take a pair of XCRs, an XFF scout and an XSAL, not two XCAs.
the orions will get X2 tech.
the hardcore Orion players wouldn't have it any other way.
Vudar X tech...gotta see an X IPG. (Drool, drool)...
Not sure about that John!
I find it a bit hard to see how to justify
high-tech pirates, considering how low-tech the modern ones are
Well, it's not as though the Cartels had any problems staying on the tech curve before...
"...considering how low-tech the modern ones are"
that should be RL pirates.
(Just to avoid confusion )
Bottom line is SFB has too many Orion fans to let them fall behind the curve.
Comparing RW pirates to the Orions proves nothing. Orions got X1 the same time as everyone else. No reason to assume X2 will be any different.
Well, the LDR supporters apparently survived being whiped out by the Andros... And why not the Orions too? If we keep status quo in the galaxy the SFU history will be a bit boring and predictable. Sooner or later big changes to the galaxy map is bound to happen.
The Orions, loved by no other race, lacks the strength and unity of the Empires. They are after all only pirates, scattered all over the Alpha quadrant. I imagine their infra structure would make it increasingly difficult to catch up with developments. (I'd like to see a pirate cartel paying for X2 R&D!!!)
Convoys will be increasingly harder to attack, requiring better, heavier and more advanced ships.
Will the loot be valuable enough to pay for those hulls? I am not so sure...
My 2c on the Pirate trouble
*Perhaps a Federation President named Bush will declare war on the Pirate terrorists?
Carl,
Poitics are not appropriate here.
As for the rest, use your brain. Pirates don't research X2, they acquire it. I seriously doubt they researched X1.
They do mercenary work for some empires, Orion is still a member of the Federation, they retook their shipyard in the WYN cluster. Any and all of those would be avenues for getting X2 tech.
The Pirates could play a major role in disrupting Xork supply lines. Heck, they may end up mounting Xork weapons! Maybe they even sell captured X2 tech to the Alpha races jumpstarting our tech advance.
There's no sense justifying it...the fact is, there are enough players that will want Orion 2X that it's going to exist. Fill in the blanks as to why and how later, if you like...but they'll have it.
I can see pretty much everyone getting X2, even if in limited quantities. The sim races (Fliver, Frax, et al) will have it, because it doesn't cost anything. The races that might not get it, or at least much, would be the Wyn, Vudar, Jindos, and perhaps the LDR. Though I'd personally love to see some 2X Vudar and Jindos, personally.