Of course to the rest of us, the general heavy armament and internal fortitude of the Gorns serves just fine imho.

Not knocking you so much as saying that the Gorns do have design advantages over the Roms and ISC that satisfy plenty of us.

By Les LeBlanc (Lessss) on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 03:38 pm: Edit

Talonz ... and you ARE looking at the Gorn DD not DW, CL not HDD, CA not CM?? The "reputation" Gorn ships have gotten is mostly from the BC or BCH. That reputaion doesn't hold when you look at the other ships. Class per class in comparison to Roms and ISC the Gorn ships just don't hold.

Even if you do look at the HDD remember to look at it's opponnent the sparrowhaks, more power IIRC, the cloak, same phaser 1'2 twice the Ph-3's and same torps, and more internals. Yikes compare the BH to the unrefitted , even the refitted DD. Same for the Snipe-c to the FF+. Remember there are usually many more small ships in the fleet compared the the number of cruisers.

The reputation isn't the reality.

By James A Beggs (Cybermerlin) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 12:21 am: Edit

Geoff: In a way, I have to agree with Lesss. Sort of.

However, i guess my particular complaint is a bit different; for one, the cloak and the PPD gives those two races more options. The gorn is basically a big brick.

Thats good, you say? Well, yes, but also no. With the PPD, an ISC fleet on an open map can utterly punish a gorn fleet at a distance while they try to close - and god help them if the ISC is actually retrograding. It makes an aggressive ISC fleet far more capable than a Gorn one fighting through such fire.

And with just the plasma, which has shorter legs than the PPD, it really can end up being terribly painful.

Couple that with the fact that the Romulans have the cloak - an additional ability to counter either Gorn plasma OR ISC PPD - leaves the gorns with a paltry list of options in comparison.

Look at it another way:

IF I'm playing Feds, they have drone ships, torpedo ships, plasma armed ships, etc etc. Federation, Klingons, romulans, gorns, hydrans, tholians, orions, Lyrans, Andromedans, Hydrans, WYN, ISC, all have a number of weapons or other systems, allowing for a different set of tactical options based on devices and weapons alone.

The Gorn has just one: the plasma. Now, they have generally great arcs, great internal fortitude, etc, but they have far fewer options than any other race in the game.

For one, this makes them predictable. For two, I think this would, in the strategic sense, make them vulnerable to their two major opponents, the ISC and the Romulan.

After all, the Roms have that extra, the cloak: and while it is not a panacea, the fact they HAVE that option is nice; not saying the Gorn is a definite loser in this match up, but they DO have less options.

The ISCs PPDs and rear plasma F array makes them even more dangerous; a real reach-out-and-touch-you weapon. In a fleet, this can be incredibly dangerous.

In comparison, the romulan can try various cloaking techniques to neutralize the PPD; not guaranteed to work, but it is an option.

In comparison, what does the gorn have? Their options are, in my humble opinion, far more limited.

Thats why they need a new gadget: first, to give them more options, but second, to make them a bit more competitive against their plasma-armed allies.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 09:41 am: Edit

Just a quick note, we plan to put the plasma sabot, electronic warfare plasma, and plasma carronade into Module R10.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 09:56 am: Edit

Conjectural cruisers, real rules?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 11:00 am: Edit

No it's more like,

"I have a 48 page rulebook. I used 8 pages on the 8 race's ship descriptions. I used 2 pages for the MSC. I used 12 pages for some scenarios. Hmm. I have 24-26 pages left, what will I use that for...."

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 01:01 pm: Edit

To be honest I am planing to purchase R10, but I thought that you were putting the conjectural NCA variants in a separate module so that those who did not want them would not have to buy them? If you put these rules there will that not be counter productive to those who ignore conjectural units?

ADM

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 01:39 pm: Edit

It's give you a chance to experience the joys of conjectural units. Seriously, the rules need publishing and R10 is the next logical available place. They can't go into CapLog, and Module Omega Five seems an unlikely choice.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Awwwww, but I'm _sure_ the Trobrin would love to have saboted implosion torps

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 02:10 pm: Edit

No real reason that the trobrin couldn't have them. Write them up and send them to Petrick.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Hrm, that would tie nicely into thoughts I've been havign of how material from J2 might possibly fit into Omega...might be an idea for Omega 5...

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Less, why not look at the DW, the HDD, the CM, etc.? These are gorn ships as well. As to the DD, every race has their dog ships. On the whole, Gorns have very durable internal designs and strong phaser arrays.

Personally I'd love to have my Novahawk have a third S torp, or my skyhawks to have a third f torp. Oh wait, the Gorns have no-thing to differentiate them from the other plasma types....

Pshaw. Their PF is the best in the game imo.

Anyways that's how I see it. Seeing as they are getting the carronade (which iirc is a new gorn only device) then your dreams may well be granted anyways.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 06:44 pm: Edit

"Awwwww, but I'm _sure_ the Trobrin would love to have saboted implosion torps"---AAIIIEEEEE!!!!!
Runs screaming for engines capable of speed 30 on anything bigger than a frigate.

ADM

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Well, such things would clearly be Invasion/Sixth Cycle, when the have speed 30 CAs and are dealing with extra zippy Andros and Souldra

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:13 am: Edit

SVC: What is the next 'C' module? Would they not go better there or is that too far away?

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:35 am: Edit

The next C module is the LMC, which is gonna be chock full of new rules as it is. And C mods are all about new races and their rules, pretty much (with the Neos and LDR being kind of subraces).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:47 am: Edit

Oh ya. That wouldn't be a good place at all. Oh well, I'm buying R10 (and R8 and R9 and R11 through R99) so I guess I don't care where it goes!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:13 am: Edit

The next C module is Magellanic Cloud, and the one after that probably going to turn into two or three F-modules. Neither place would be good for such rules. Why put the new gorn weapon into the vudar module?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 11:03 am: Edit

Oh, I see the logic and agree. Besides R10 is comming sooner than the others and that makes it the best, right there!

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 01:29 pm: Edit

SVC, what's R10 ?
AFAIK only R7 have been published yet and the R8 are supposed to be NG ships, and bases, R9 conjectural ships only. But that the planning had advanced so far as R10 was soemthing new to me

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Module NCA (a TR or E style SSD book of conjectural NCA variants) has garnered enough interest that the Powers That Be realize that it could actually be published as a full-on cover-and-counters and sell.

Since it's been long established what R8 and R9 are gonna cover, rather than bumping one of those, Module NCA got named R10 and bumped up for publication.

By Dave Morse (Dcm) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 05:18 pm: Edit

Gorn Gizmo proposal:
Everyone knows the Gorn don't have Photon Torpedoes. People assumed that this was because they couldn't build them, but in fact it was because they had something very very VERY similar: the Gorn Foton Torpe'doh. Any gorn ship with wing wing a wing mount Pl-F Pl-S pair may replace them both with two Foton Torpe'dohs firing in the same arc (FP reduced to FP, LP reduced to L+LF, etc). Foton Torpe'dohs behave EXACTLY like Photon Torpedoes, EXCEPT when proposals are being rejected on the grounds that Gorns don't have Photon Torpedoes, in which case they're not, or if its being rejected because Gorns don't have Foton Torpe'dohs either, then they're not Foton Torpe'dohs, they're Photon Torpedoes. Clear?

By James A Beggs (Cybermerlin) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 05:33 pm: Edit

oh lord, hehe

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Dave,

For fun once, I did some conjectural Gorn ships that had photon launchers on them, courtesy of the Feds. I figured if the Feds could get Plasma-F's from the Gorn, why not the reverse?

Made two of 'em:

Gorn BCP
Gorn HDP

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 10:56 am: Edit

Thanks Alex.