The Seltorian Tribunal is at something of a disadvantage trying to destroy Tholian enclaves that have size class 2 ships, including the Holdfast in our galaxy. The largest ships that Hive Ships and Nest Ships can produce are size class 3. The proposed Heavy Hive Ship is a modified Hive Ship with a bay arrangement allowing the production of Dreadnoughts and BCHs. The original Hive Ship in Module C3 had (prior to its conversion to carry PFs - the SSD in the module shows it post-PF conversion) 2 SC3 bays and 6 SC4 bays. The Heavy Hive would instead have 2 SC2, 2 SC3, and 2 SC4 bays. Weapons, power, abd shields would all be comparable to the original Hive Ship.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 05:02 pm: Edit

I'm not certain that replacing 2x SC4 bays with 2x SC2 bays is really all that realistic. I would be more inclined the take out 2x SC4 bays per SC2 bay. Or perhaps a SC3 bay and a SC4 bay for a SC2 bay.
Them DNs are big muthas, and their parts just won't fit in the same space that destroyer parts fit in.

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 05:35 pm: Edit

Matt,

If you look again at Alan's proposal, he is replacing 2x SC4 bays for 1x SC2 bay.

With that said, I believe only one SC2 hull would be really all a Hive ship could produce at one time. So only one bay would be needed. This way, taking into account that SC2 hulls usually take twice as long to build in shipyards, a Hive ship could produce a full fleet (1x SC2, 4x SC3s, 8x SC4s) in one year's time.

Otherwise you would need to increase the size of the "Hive" ship and call it something different, like a "Colony" ship.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 05:36 pm: Edit

Hrm, Perhaps they have a Creche class ship that has 2 SC2 and 2 SC4 bays that are added to a fleet that needs the ability to produce such units.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 07:08 pm: Edit

One thing to bear in mind is that, as of Module R12, the Selts do have one other thing they can make out of a Hive Ship; a conversion into a Battlewagon.

BWs might not be all that great in open space battles, but they can be all too brutal an instrument of destruction against Tholian fixed installations.

(I could imagine the largest expeditions, ones sent to areas known to have a substantial enough Tholian exodus in that direction, getting multiple Hive and Nest Ships sent; both to allow for increased production of SC3 and SC4 hulls, and to keep at least one factory ship spare for conversion into a Battlewagon once the time was ripe.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 08:54 pm: Edit

I don't believe the Seltorians expect to find Tholisnd with many or any size class two units. The D hull must have been something of a surprise.

But remember that game scenarios are balanced but real battles are not and so there not really a vital need to match size class for size class. I can take down any DN with a BCH and a CA. Seltorians also ended up with Gunboats so I think they can field pleanty of strength.

Besides, any new design of Hiveship has to come from M81 so there is a two hundre year delay to get the report of the need and another two hundred years to get one delivered to the MWG.

There is certainly no need for one of these in M81 itself.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Battlewagons are dangerous weapons against ANY fixed instalation. Remember, Web Breakers are modified from Shield Crackers! This is another bit that tensed the tushies of the Klingons.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 09:23 pm: Edit

I'd like to point out that the Selt's would probably want to have a DN AND BCH built each YEAR. So 2xSC 2 bays would be helpful.

Each one taking a year to build each hull

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Selts can bring along a few DNs/BCHs with them if they feel the need for heavy ships, and in any case, they can just wear down the Tholians by using their SC3/SC4 ships as attrition units. Selts breed and build far faster than anyone else, especially Tholians. They may lose every battle but still win the war.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 10:50 am: Edit

Terry,

yup.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Realistically (and believe it or not at the scale we are talking) a Hive ship is just a slightly heavier "Light Reconnaissance Force." The job is to locate the Tholians and then keep them tied down until other (heavier) forces can be brought up. If you read the actual background for the Seltorian arrival, they sent for reinforcements once they found the Holdfast and then settled in for combat action. They intended to wait for the reinforcements rather than destroy the Holdfast themselves.

Whatever they sent for will probably bring up heavier units.

Beyond that, if they had found a "Larger Tholian Presence" they probably would have backed off and used the construction abilities of the Hive ship to build a "true" ship yard given enough time.

So, no, the Hive ship does not need to be modified to produce true DNs and BCHs. It is not its mission profile in the search for Tholians.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Pity the Tholians themselves didn't get a hold of the Hive Ship. It would have been a treasure of lost (and Tholian-compatible) technology.

Not that such a thing was ever remotely likely.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 05:22 pm: Edit

I'm sure the Klingons considered that they wouldn't want the Hiveship to fal into Tholians hands.

By Mark S. Hoyle (Resartus) on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Guess the Tholians that came to Alpha lost the code that when used would have turned the bugs back into fanatical loyal Tholian underlings ---

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 09:50 pm: Edit

The Federation suggested "pretty please with sugar on top" too. It always works.