Tos, the CA class was not "replaced" with the NCA, it was augmented. Also, the NCA uses the same slipyards that build the NCL and later the DDX. So, it will go out of production as soon as the DDX fills up the slipyard schedule.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 11:57 am: Edit

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Quote:

"one of the first ship-classes converted to 2X would be each races cruiser"

The Y205 ships used entirely new hulls, they were not conversions (X0.0)

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 02:07 pm: Edit

The only argument is an aesthetic one.

I want more time to play with X1 before graduating to X2.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 10:01 pm: Edit

I agree. While there are probably a lot more FFs than CAs in a fleet, a new module introducing X2-tech would be complete without an SSD for each race's new-construction X2 cruiser.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 10:45 pm: Edit

I'm ok with an X2 CA, as long as it only represents 5% of construction pre-Xork.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 10:56 pm: Edit

We're on the same page, Tos. Pre-Xork, I would expect no more than 4-8 total X2 CAs built by the Federation, 4-8 for the Klingons, and 1-3 for everyone else.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 12:38 am: Edit

What I'm not ok with is spending the bulk of our X2 time talking about a ship that is so rare. We should focus on the FF(X2), DD(X2) and CL(X2).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 12:46 am: Edit

Ya, that works for me. But let them go wild on building the X2 CL, DD, and FF.

I'v egot an idea for a modular freighter too for X2. Basically you take the cargo pod and divide in half then into four length wise so you get these triangle shaped pods that attach to a cargo rack. The Command and Drive sections attach to the rack. All ships will have provisions to carry one of two of these pods (four or six cargo boxes each). Special pods will add other functions to the freighter but couldn't function on ships except for a few like the Troop pod, or science pod, or VIP pod. No functional weapons pods for ships. But freighter could and would opperate weapons pods. Sort of a modular Q ship thing.

This is part of my integrated proposal. There will be a XFF specifically design to use four of these. Every race will use something similar.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 01:36 am: Edit

Yeah, but the X2 CA is going to be the ship folks see, and want to use, and want to look at. Besides, we get the idea down for the X2 CA and we can work our way down from there.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 07:47 am: Edit

Exactly. When X1 was first put out for playtest, cruisers were the first ships to be done. Ditto the EY module. Get the cruiser, the basic unit of the game, and the rest will follow.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:08 am: Edit

The problem is BPV. The CA(X2) from the proposals I've seen has the BPV of a maxed out BB. Hard to balance things at that level. We would be better off creating a CL(X2) first with a BPV near 200 so that it can be balanced against X0, XP and X1.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 12:50 pm: Edit

At a BPV of 300, we are looking at comparing it to a DNH, not a BB>

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Hard to say since there are so many great ideas being bantered about and we don't know which ones are in and which are out. If we incorporated all of them we would be well beyond 400. I guess we will just have to see. Even so the point is the same. It is easier to balance a 200 point ship than a 300 point ship.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 01:31 am: Edit

I posted three more ideas in the MAJOR X2 CHANGES thread.

Thoughts?

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 02:14 am: Edit

How do you figure Tos? 200. 300. Balance is all the same.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 08:47 am: Edit

There are more opponents to compare against at 200 BPV. Less chance of making an RPS mistake.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 01:02 pm: Edit

First you compare them against eac other and look for RPS mistakes. Then worry about backward compatibility.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Just got this Fed Production Schedule:

Spring, Y179+: [CVA+NAC+DWA+FFE], CC, CA, NCA, 11xNCL, HDW, 7xDW, 4xFF.
Fall, Y179+: DN, 2xCA, NCA, 12xNCL, HDW, 8xDW, 5xFF.

That's 2xDN, 4xCA, 2xNCA, 24xNCL, 2xHDW, 16xDW, 10xFF = 60 ships constructed per year.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 05:26 pm: Edit

But remember, about the time that they get this schedule, the Feds start to go into economic exhaustion.

Also, they get X-tech in 180, ( about 96 XTPs or so per turn, figure abou 180 per year) give or take.

with 180 XTPs, and the abitliy to use them you could...

first turn of availability.
2xSB->SBX (needed to support the X-ships)(48 XTPs)

Convert 2xCA->CX (12 XTPs)
Build 4xCX (48 XTPs)

So, from 180 to 181 you could build 6 cruisers and get 3xStarbases to support them (you get one for free).

By 182, when the DDX becomes avaialble, you could in theory have up to 12 CXs.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Theoretically, yes. Historically no. (R2.201) tells us they produced 1 CX per year from Y181 - Y193.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:42 pm: Edit

"Kappa-to-Omicron is the Xorkaelian empire. Think North Korea if it controlled all of China, Mongolia, and Siberia. Really nasty people." from SVC.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:03 am: Edit

Anyone who has ever looked at the galaxy map http://caraig.home.mindspring.com/FnE5-Sectors4.jpg should be able to figure out that traveling that distance is not something one does with what we are describing as X2. For the Xorks to support an invasion as far away as a ship crossing the Federation 10 times or a slightly shorter distance traveling through the storm zones requires a strategic technology beyond X2. For us to have any hope of persecuting the war back to Xork space, or even of putting a dent in their logistics, we need a revolutionary development in our strategic technology. Revolutionary as in X3.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:08 am: Edit

Why so? The ISC rabid-deployment base system isn't X-tech, but the result of a couple of decades of studying a major logistical issue that simply never occured to the other Alphan powers. Why would the Xork logistics have to be X3 tech? Higher gen tech may make it easier, but it could also be a problem that can be overcome with GW-era tech and enough time and resources. The Xorks, having fully expanded and utilized all the space bounded the voids and Storm Zone on the borders of their empire, have a motivation for solving those problems. That isn't yet an issue for Alphan powers, who are still surveying their own space.

By Martin Read (Amethyst_Cat) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:09 am: Edit

We've already taken a war to the lesser magellanic clouds, in case you hadn't noticed Operation Unity? That's at least as far *and* involves leaving the galaxy, not a thing to be undertaken lightly.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 11:03 am: Edit

"but it could also be a problem that can be overcome with GW-era tech and enough time and resources"

True, what the ISC did was impressive (I haven't seen it spelled out exactly how they supported their fleets so far away) but we are still talking an order of magnitude longer. With an X1 ship how long in F&E does it take to cross from the far reaches of ISC space to the Lyran far stars? To reach the Xorks using GW tech how many tugs with bases would have to be sent out to build that bridge? How long would it take? Remember the tugs would be flying into unexplored territory. 50 years?

"We've already taken a war to the lesser magellanic clouds"
Is that farther away than the other side of the milkyway galaxy?