The Probe Missile of the Nicozians, When the drone launches the probe, the probe gets the EW of the guiding unit, however does the probe get Tac Intel as a probe, or as a ship?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 11:14 am: Edit

Alex Lyons:

The Nicozian Probe Missile launches a PROBE (FD97.11), so yes it gains intelligence data as a Ship under (D17.15) as provided by (FD97.123).

By Alex Lyons (Afwholf) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 11:36 am: Edit

Ok thank you.

By Daniel K. Thompson (Dkt0404) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Reguarding Friday, February 10, 2012 - 07:21 pm

For a follow up on the playtest module:
I'd personally suggest they have some sort of bonus in high gravity situations.
Given that they can ignore the affects of a Neutron Star up to and including safely landing on it, it makes sense that:

A) Nothing of lower gravity or density is really going to have much of any effect on them beyond maybe slowing them down slightly.

B) Some sort of bonus for higher gravity situations given their starting point is at neutron star levels and not at the vastly lower point of all the other SFB races.

Those are, to me, a more common sense addition to them since if your density and your able to control gravity to that degree, then it should have a number of related effects.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Personal Opinion; I can see Nicozians taking 1/2 damage from Gravity Waves, and being moved every other time by a black Hole, at least outside range five.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 04:06 pm: Edit

Daniel K. Thompson:

Except they cannot ignore the effect except when taking off, landing, and being in orbit. If they are not doing one of those three things, then on Impulse #16 they are pulled one hex closer to the neutron star as any other unit. In game terms, that is the total effect of a neutron star's gravity (P15.5), and they are not exempt from it except for those specific items I thought necessary to make a neutron star a viable place for them to operate from.

This is the rule: "(P15.5) NEUTRON STAR: Players can create the effect of a neutron star. Use a counter to represent the star, which is the source of a radiation zone extending 20 hexes in all directions. Units within this zone are pulled one hex toward the star on Impulse #16 of each turn."

Other than the effects of the rest of (P15.0) applying in the 41 hex hexagonal space centered on the neutron star, there is no other effect. So other than the three specific exemptions (landing, taking off, orbiting) they are no more immune to the gravity effect than any other ship, and so no more immune to the gravity effects of a black hole than any other ship (with the exception of the advantages skip-movement itself grants or denies them).

So I see no reason for them to have some "high gravity bonus."

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Skipwarp ESG question;
Setup A ship has an ESG up at range tree, if the skipwarp unit skips from range four to range two it jumps the ESG as I understand it. If it skips from range five to range three, does it automatically hit the ESG or does it arrive inside or outside of the ESG? If inside/outside who determines, the skipwarp unit or the ESG unit?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 04:36 pm: Edit

A. David Merritt asked on Monday, February 13, 2012: Setup A ship has an ESG up at range tree, if the skipwarp unit skips from range four to range two it jumps the ESG as I understand it. If it skips from range five to range three, does it automatically hit the ESG or does it arrive inside or outside of the ESG? If inside/outside who determines, the skipwarp unit or the ESG unit?
ANSWER: This answer was rescinded as in error and has been deleted on 14 Feb 12 in order to avoid future confusion

By Alex Lyons (Afwholf) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 04:59 pm: Edit

So does this mean there is no way to skip over an ESG?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Alex Lyons:

The question A David Merritt asked is if Skip Movement ENDED in an ESG field hex, which is not covered (hence the errata), but otherwise skip-movement can jump ESG fields as provided by (C91.212).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 07:20 pm: Edit

Okay, I see the problem and I am going to have to revise the errata item. I will think on it overnight.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 11:59 am: Edit

A. David Merritt asked on Monday, February 13, 2012: Setup A ship has an ESG up at range tree, if the skipwarp unit skips from range four to range two it jumps the ESG as I understand it. If it skips from range five to range three, does it automatically hit the ESG or does it arrive inside or outside of the ESG? If inside/outside who determines, the skipwarp unit or the ESG unit?
ANSWER: That is a valid question that should have been answered by either the original authors or your humble correspondent. This will require an errata item: (C91.212) If skip-movement by a unit outside of an ESG field ends in an actual hex of that ESG field, the owner of the skip-movement unit must determine and announce if the unit is still outside of the ESG field, or inside of the ESG field. If the unit's subsequent destination-movement causes it to again be colocated with an ESG field hex, the skip warp movement has impacted that ESG field.

Examples:

#1: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2212. The skip warp unit skips into hex 2213 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is outside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then attempts its destination movement into hex 2214 impacting the ESG field.

#2: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2212. The skip warp unit skips into hex 2213 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is inside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then conducts its destination movement into hex 2214, there is no interaction with the ESG field.

#3: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2212. The skip warp unit skips into hex 2213 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is outside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then uses its destination movement to sideslip into hex into hex 2114 (or 2314) impacting the ESG field.

#4: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2212. The skip warp unit skips into hex 2213 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is inside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then uses its destination movement to sideslip into hex into hex 2114 (or 2314) impacting the ESG field.

#5: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2212. The skip warp unit skips into hex 2213 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is outside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then turns and uses its destination movement to enter hex 2114 (or 2314) impacting the ESG field.

#6: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2212. The skip warp unit skips into hex 2213 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is inside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then turns and uses its destination movement to enter hex 2114 (or 2314) impacting the ESG field.

#7: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2413. The skip warp unit skips into 2414 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is inside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then destination moves into hex 2415, impacting the ESG field.

#8: ESG unit in hex 2215 with a radius 2 ESG field up. Skip warp unit in hex 2413. The skip warp unit skips into 2414 (an ESG field hex), the skip warp unit owner announces that the skip warp unit is outside of the ESG field. The skip warp unit then destination moves into hex 2415, impacting the ESG field.

Note that items #7 and #8 will most often occur when a skip-missile has to move directly towards its target, but might occur because the skip unit does actually want to interact with the ESG field for some tactical reason (perhaps to drop the ESG field before a barrage of skip-missiles would impact the field). Note also that in items #7 and #8 the skip unit could have turned or sidesliped out of the ESG hex (in the appropriate direction, i.e., inside if the Skip warp unit operator had decleared that the skip-warp unit was inside the field, or outside if the Skip warp unit operator had decleared that the skip-warp unit was outside the field).

By Alex Lyons (Afwholf) on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 09:12 am: Edit

Since the Nicozians are *technically* the size of a drone, and the Branthadons ignore all forms of EW/Masking/Jamming.
Would they ignore the energy signatures of the Nicozians and see them as SC7 units allowing defencive tail actions against the ships?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Alex Lyons:

You are coming at it from the wrong logic level.

Lets say I have two balls. These two balls are exactly the same size, i.e., that of a Soccer Ball.

One ball is actually a Soccer Ball.

The other ball is hollow, like the Soccer Ball, but made of steel.

What do you presume will be the consequences to your foot of kicking the steel ball as you would the Soccer Ball?

It does not matter that you can "see" that the two balls are the same size, the steel ball is not a Soccer Ball, and the Nicozian ship is not a drone.

By Alex Lyons (Afwholf) on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 02:04 pm: Edit

Ok as for the "Snatch" as i understand getting that close to a Nicozian ship is NOT a good idea, So 1 can a dragon snatch a Nicozian without penalty, and 2 does the skip movement break the snatch even though its a pysical hold on the unit.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 02:26 pm: Edit

Alex Lyons:

To me, the rules are fairly clear that you can "snatch" a Nicozian ship just as you can "tractor" a Nicozian ship, but whether you have a physical hold or not, you can no more hold a Nicozian ship when it "skips" than you can an Andromedan when it "displaces" or is transported aboard a mothership.

By Alex Lyons (Afwholf) on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Ok thank you, both my stepdad and I didnt understand that specific instance and we figured we should get a ruling on it.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Alex Lyons:

No problem. Go forth and conquer (or at least survive).

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Deleted, wrong topic, sorry.

By Daniel K. Thompson (Dkt0404) on Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Regarding response on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 04:06 pm

I'm finding the response puzzling and I’m trying to wrap my brain around it. I hope you forgive me if this sounds confusing.

In order to take off from something like a neutron star, you have to be able to generate enough thrust (one way or another) to overcome the pull of the star.

Landing, as I recall, takes an entire turn. As written however, based on your reply, on the impulse the neutron star pulls units, it will cause the ship to crash. Assuming I'm following what you said.

If you have sufficent control of gravity to re-create the surface gravity of a neutron star onboard ship (which they Nico's do) then anything less than that shouldn't really have much effect on you. Heck, you should be attracting things towards your ship.

Also, the radiation field around at *least* their home star should not have the slightest effect on them or their ship since it is their native environment. It'd be like penalizing a human for breathing.

There seem to be a whole host of potential terrain issues with the Nico's because the ship itself has a density far in excess of anything else it will come across. I mean you have a ship made out of neutron star material.

The basic issue I'm seeing is the interactions with most of the terrain systems are assuming a unit that is the same sort of ship as the rest of the SFU uses. They all use, to one degree or another, a metal can that you can crush with just a couple hexes of atmosphere.

The problem is this is not the case with the Nico’s. As described they are built out of neutron star material of one sort or another. Given their density they should be able to fly threw pretty much any gas giant at will since their ship’s density is
much higher than that of the gas giant.

I think I’m rambling at this point so I’m going to give you a chance to answer.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Daniel K. Thompson:

The point of the published rule is that a Nicozian ship when landing, taking off, or in orbit around a neutron star is NOT affected by the (P15.5) rule requiring them to be pulled one hex closer. A neutron star is their home "planet," and by definition they have to be able to do these things. But beyond that (and their skip warp movement system) they pretty much do work under the restrictions of warp movement, and thus are not excluded from the catastrophic effects of ramming an asteroid at high speed or having their sensors scrambled by electronic warfare (or radiation zone effects to include that of neuton stars).

Remember, a Nicozian ship is not a solid block of neutron star material. We are not entirely sure what it is. (Earth is mostly water and rock after all, but our space vehicles whether manned or not are not made out of ice and stone). The Nicozians somehow evolved and have their own science as a result, it does not mean we fully understand it.

So their ships are affected by our weapons which, if they truly could fly right through a gas giant, they would not be. Their sensors are affected by natural EW sources, including radiation zone effects, or they would not be affected by any electronic warfare at all.

So the Nicozians are the Nicozians, they had to be able land and take off, so an exception to the Impulse #16 movement had to be made, specifically to not have their ships automatically crash whenever landing or taking off from their home "planet" (or other neutron stars they happen to visit).

By Daniel K. Thompson (Dkt0404) on Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Regarding Snatch:

I'm not trying to be a pain but;

The answer to Alex's question seems very counter-intuitive. As I understand it, Snatch is the single most physical attack
in the dragon’s arsenal. It involves physically grabbing the hull of the ship and holding it.

According to the Snatch rules, mass doesn’t have anything to do with it with size being the condition.
It would seem to be like trying to grab half a paper clip with just your fingernails while in a car moving at speed.
I’m struggling to see how the dragon could do this, much less hurt it with it’s claws.

It’d be like trying to hurt the steel ball from your other example above with your fingertips.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Daniel K. Thompson:

Well, first, the rules for a Snatch allow a dragonship to capture anything that can be held in a tractor (OG19.4374), and the last time I checked drones (the actual size of a Nicozian ship) can be held in tractors. So unless you are changing the rules of tractor beams to state they cannot hold drones (or at least the rules of Snatch to say that an object must be of some specific size class and smaller ones cannot be held) I am at something of a loss (please picture rueful grin and not sarcasm or effort to be mean).

Second, the rules for snatch (OG19.437) do not allow the held object to be harmed. The rules for Rake (OG19.436) specifically state that an object being held as part of a snatch cannot be raked (OG19.4365).

Lastly, two competing impossibilities. A ship that is built by a species which lives on a neutron star being damaged by a creature that has evolved and lives in deep space. From a science fiction background whatever stuff a space dragon's claws and teeth are made from (certainly not the stuff of human fingernails and teeth), might they not have capabilites beyond the ken of mere mortals? You may as well require a rule that Nicozian ships are immune not just to dragon claws and teeth, but photon torpedoes, disruptors, hellbores, phasers, etc., and what would be the point of playing?

By Alex Lyons (Afwholf) on Friday, February 24, 2012 - 09:44 am: Edit

(MD2.217) This rule states that things such as shield crackers, boson, drills, and energy howitzers ignore the VRF function of LMC shields.

Would the Anti-Shield Warhead used by the Nicozians also gain this ability?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, February 24, 2012 - 01:43 pm: Edit

Alex Lyons:

Good question. I am going to go with the anti-shield warhead is affected by the Volley Reduction Factor normally. I have added the following to the errata file.

(FD94.114) Anti-shield missiles are affected by the volley reduction factor (MD2.21) normally, i.e., the number of warhead points of damage actually scored on the shield is determined after applying the volley reduction factor to the strength of the warhead.

Other items added to the errata:

(C91.41) The inability to maintain a tractor link would also apply to a skip-warp unit that has been "snatched" (OG19.437) by a Branthodon dragonship.
(C91.411) A skip-warp seeking weapon that has been "snatched" (OG19.437) by a Branthodon dragonship would elude the snatch when called on to skip, i.e., a Branthodon dragonship snatch does not override the skip-warp movement of a seeking weapon.