We played another game with the Nicos. A Nioc CA versus a Gorn medium cruiser. This game was much closer, and if not for a couple of stupid mistakes by the Nico player (me) they might have won.

The skip warp and the warp distortion mines are good at helping the Nicos evade Plasma, and the Gorns don't have the phasers and drones to knock out the Nico missiles as well as the Disruptor and Drone or Photon ships.

Having said that, I still think that the Nico direct fire weapons are too weak. The phaser Ps used as phaser 2s are weak at any real range, and the SAs are fairly pathetic against shields. Perhaps increasing their damage against shields by 50% would be right, while decreasing their damage against unshielded ships from triple to double, or something like that. Also, I really think that the phaser Ps should be increased to phaser 1s.

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis_777) on Friday, June 21, 2013 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Really a great game tonight Steve. Yes, if the plasma sabots were not available, I really would have had a hard time getting anywhere with that Nico. SPP, one question we have is whether a pseudo plasma torpedo will set off a Nico gravity mine. It seems like it should but we are not sure since until this mine came along plasmas do not set off explosive mines.

Also, does WW collateral damage from a Nico missile cause internal if rolled on a down shield?

By Stephen Elliott Parrish (Steveparrish) on Friday, June 21, 2013 - 11:29 pm: Edit

Dennis: yes, the sabots definitely helped turned the tide.

BTW, of 16 missiles fired by the Nicos, 2 hit, 1 armored and 1 not. They hit on different shields, and not on ones that the Nicos could fire at.

I wish that more people would try the Nicos--they are quite interesting to play.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 12:16 am: Edit

Dennis Surdu; From R107 THE NICOZIAN CONCORDANCE pg. 17.
(M93.213) The detection radius of the warp field distortion mine can be set for a smaller radius than the effective radius listed in (M93.22). All of the other triggering parameters applicable to explosive mines apply to warp field distortion mines (M2.0).
EXCEPTION: Warp field distortion mines can be set to trigger against plasma torpedoes.

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis_777) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 08:31 am: Edit

Dave, agreed. We were just not sure whether a pseudo would have to be divulged as such since it seems a cheap way of sweeping gravity mines or at least finding out what triggers them.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 08:35 am: Edit

If something can distinguish between a pseudo plasma torpedo and a normal plasma torpedo, it would explicitly say so. So imo, a pseudo-plasma torpedo could set off such a mine.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Random question - what would make the Nico missiles a smidge more effective?

Also, I'm not sure that a Nico shield dropping missile would damage a Wild Weasel at all.

By Stephen Elliott Parrish (Steveparrish) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Ken: I'm not sure. Being able to HET would certainly help, but probably more than a smidgen.

IMO, the main (though possibly not the only) change needed for the Nicos is stronger direct fire weapons.

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis_777) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Ken, then so the missiles just hover around the WW or something? We played as though the amount normally applied to a shielded target is used on the collateral damage table. But then, if the CD is applied to a shield that happens to be down, is it ignored?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 03:14 pm: Edit

The missiles would home in on the WW and destroy themselves trying to damage it, unless they can actually do damage to a shuttle, in which case they would do that. Imo.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Dennis Surdu asked on Friday, June 21, 2013: One question we have is whether a pseudo plasma torpedo will set off a Nicozian warp field distortion mine. It seems like it should but we are not sure since until this mine came along plasmas do not set off explosive mines.

ANSWER: A warp field distortion mine is not an explosive mine, and existing rules allow phaser captors to be triggered by plasma torpedoes (M4.415). There is no rule allowing a warp field distortion mine to discriminate between a real plasma torpedo and a pseudo plasma torpedo. However, plasma torpedoes (despite their size and power) are treated as size class 7 units (R0.6). So under (M93.13) you can tell the mine to ignore targets of Size Class 7 and it will ignore any plasma torpedoes (for triggering purposes) that enter its detection sphere. It would, of course, pull in such units (and all other units within its sphere of effect) when it was triggered (presumably by something larger than size class 7, but note that it could have been given a target count delay and be triggered by the second, or third, or etc. size class 7 unit that entered its detection radius). Note that as with any mine it will not tell you what it destroyed (it will not tell you if the plasma it sucked in was real or pseudo, or if the drone it sucked in was a type-VI, type-I, or type-IV and what the warheads or internal armor status of the latter two drone types were, or etc.

Dennis Surdu asked on Friday, June 21, 2013: Does Wild Weasel collateral damage from a Nicozian missile cause internal damage if rolled on a down shield?

ANSWER: Collateral damage is collateral damage. It would be like asking if collateral damage from an enveloping plasma torpedo has to be spread over all six shields of a ship. No matter what the source of the damage points created by seeking weapons striking a wild weasel is, the collateral damage is just damage points and has no special intrinsic property. It is just "energy released into space" (J3.30). However, (FD94.111) is specific that this warhead cannot damage a shuttle or anything else, so I would have to rule that while it might be triggered as a result of "striking" a wild weasel, its warhead would do no damage and not add to the total of collateral damage.

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis_777) on Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 09:15 pm: Edit

So the WW would not be destroyed by the missile strike alone? Would that make a WW even more useful against Nico seekers?

By Stephen Elliott Parrish (Steveparrish) on Monday, June 24, 2013 - 10:00 am: Edit

Ken: Thinking about it, I have few ideas about how to make the Nico's missiles more effective.

1) Allow them to HET.

2) Don't let them be tractored.

3) Increase the amount of damage it takes to destory them. E.g. change unarmored missiles from 5 to 6, armored from 9 to 10.

4) Instead of making them go into the hex directly in front of them in the skip hex portion of the move, allow them to go into one of the three hexes in front.

5) Change the mix allowed--i.e., allow more than 50% fast missiles, or armored missles.

Whether any of these would be the right change I do not know. Again, after playtesting, I think that the most important change needed is to give them more long distance direct fire power.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Monday, June 24, 2013 - 01:57 pm: Edit

I would be very leary about increasing the damage to destroy missiles, considering the damage has to be done all at once.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 11:57 am: Edit

Dennis Surdu:

Not much I can say as the rule for the anti-shield warhead is very specific that it does not damage shuttles (FD94.111), that the damage for such warheads is always resolved before all other seeking weapon damage (FD94.13), and the warhead is specifically prohibited from being combined with an explosive warhead on the same missile (FD94.212). Given that if such a missile hit a down shield it would do no damage whatsoever (FD94.111), I pretty much have to say that such a missile reaching a wild weasel, even one in its "explosion period" (i.e., destroyed by something other than anti-shield warheads) would literally do no damage to anything, not even collateral damage. It is not hitting a shield, so it is literally not detonating. A hundred of them could hit a wild weasel and the wild weasel would not be damaged. If the same hundred hit the weasel during its explosion period during the same impulse as an explosive warhead, their damage would all be resolved first (no shield, so no damage and thus no collateral damage), then the explosive warhead would be resolved (producing three points of collateral damage).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 12:04 pm: Edit

It seems to me that the easiest change to the skip warp missiles is to allow a skip warp missile adjacent to its target to forgo skipwarp and simply move to impact. This would change (FD93.33) and (C91.64) in the rulebook.

By Stephen Elliott Parrish (Steveparrish) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 01:13 pm: Edit

SPP: We will try that at our next game and see if it makes a significant difference.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 03:32 pm: Edit

SPP's suggested fix will make the missiles markedly more effective, and I think is a good move for them.

By Stephen Elliott Parrish (Steveparrish) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 06:54 pm: Edit

It will hopefully mean more missiles hitting, and perhaps hitting in relevant shields. At the least, it should mean that the Nico's opponents will have to spend more effort on stopping the missiles.

In our last game, the Nico's were always moving fast. Dennis hit them first with bolts, and then with the Sabot. I did some damage with missiles, 2 out of 16 fired, though not in helpful places. The Phaser Ps were almost useless against this ship, as I could never get close enough. They were useful against plasmas, firing as phaser 3s.

I fired the SAs at the Gorn ship at range 8, and even though I rolled quite well, only burned through half of a shield, or less. Then his plasmas were up and I had to run.

The point being (I know that I am sounding like a broken record here) is that the Nicos need more direct fire at a distance.

At least, that is my opinion.

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis_777) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:23 pm: Edit

I guess my main tactical point regarding no damage to a WW is that you really can effectively use a WW to evade and distract a large number of missiles indefinitely. Of course this has implications for the WW using ship too but interesting nonetheless!

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Disclaimer: I don't have any material on the Nicos, I only know what I've read here.

A race doesn't necessarily need to have standoff firepower. Just look at the fusion-based Hydrans. However, they managed to be dangerous by being fast and durable. The Nicos sound like they are speed limited, but hard to hit. If you make them harder to hit or faster-with-weapons-loaded (i.e. as fast as a fusion-ship: speed 26+), perhaps that will fix some of their problems?

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Matthew;
The Nicozians are an odd duck on speed, they are quite fast, but if you still have shields when they catch you their damage output is rather low.

Trying to talk about them without reading their rules is difficult, they are like the Andromedans in that they work differently enough from everyone else, that you really need to read their rules to understand the conversation.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Fair enough, Dave. I was really just trying to provide a different aspect to mix into the discussion. Not all balancing has to be in the weapon's suite.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Matthew; quite true, The Nicozians were, like the Andromedans, built with a different set of balance points. Changing the Nicozians is tricky, because you not really sure where they will unravel. Still they are closer to ready to use than a lot of Omega was on it's first draft.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Dennis Surdu:

I do not understand your point.

If you are concerned about wild weasels, include one explosive warhead (FD95.0) in your missile swarm. Even if the anti-shield missiles will not damage the wild weasel, the explosive missile will destroy the weasel (unless it is based on an advanced MRS or GAS shuttle). If the target does not weasel, the explosive missile will do half the damage of the anti-shield missile it is replacing, but it will score its damage after the anti-shield missiles, and if the shield was dropped by the anti-shield missiles it will score internal damage unlike the anti-shield missiles.