Anyway, at this year I would far prefer to have the F-16C though it is one year early. I could accept the F-16. (and maybe add a GWS
) | By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 10:37 am: Edit |
Loren Knight:
There is no promise that there will be a rescue force in ten turns, there was only a posit of questions. The specific sentence said simply:
"Maybe the cruiser will not get there before ten turns have elapsed in any case?"
In any case, it is always possible that the "cruiser" has been diverted to protect some other target regarded as of "higher value".
Be that as it may, there are some considerations to be made, and I am going to be curious about some of decisions. You have to protect the whole planet, and that pretty much means your Ground Based Defense Phaser-4s will have to be deployed in something like:
2215-A, 2215-C, and 2215-E (or 2215-B, 2215-D, and 2215-F).
How you will deploy the other three ground bases is a question, and how will your thoughts guide you in setting them up.
As to the fighters, F-20Cs and F-16Cs are faster (speed 12 and speed 13 respectively), have more phasers (two phaser-3s on the F-20C, a phaser-G on the F-16C) but have only two type-I drone rails each. F-15s are simply not going to be available to such a minor colony. The F-4C may be slower (speed 8) have only one phaser-3, but it also has four type-I drone rails.
If you want F-20Cs or F-16Cs, I can recalculate the situation, and down grade the Klingons somewhat for BPV balance.
Eleven F-4Cs have a base BPV of 88 points, plus 9 points for the F-4E for a total of 97 points (plus 19.4 BPV for Commander's Options), the drones, if all type-I except for the type-VI on the F-4E, would add 45 BPV, for a total BPV for the squadron of 161.4.
Eleven F-16Cs have a base BPV of 88 points, plus 9 points for the F-16E for a total of 97 points (plus 19.4 BPV for Commander's Options), the drones, if all type-I except for the type-VI on the F-16E, would add 23 BPV for a total BPV for the squadron of 139.4.
Eleven F-20Cs have a base BPV of 77 points, plus 8 points for the F-20E for a total of 85 points (plus 17 BPV for Commander's Options), the drones, if all type-I except for the type-VI on the F-20E, would add 23 BPV for a total BPV for the squadron of 125.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 12:28 pm: Edit |
Where are the F5's entering?
Side Comments: Scenarios often bring ships in in the middle of sector B and E but I usually play at the maximum range on the far corners of A and F.
In this particular game I would likely place the planet in 3015 and have the ships enter anywhere on the far map edge along A and D. Then there is the fact that I usually always play on a larger map (45 x 60 hexes) excepting of course for tourni style and closed map, which this is I assume.
But I understand there is more to this study than how I would play it at home so the planet will go in 2015 but still, are we talking 2101 for the F5's?
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 12:54 pm: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Assume nine maps laid out three by three, which should handle movement for the most part.
Your planet is in hex 2215 of the center map. The Klingons are expected to approach from directions E or F, but might approach from other directions.
When the Klingons actually appear, they will be at 101 hexes from the planet (further than the maps encompass, of course, but movement down from 101 hexes to 45 hexes (if they came directly down from direction A or D) can be approximated fairly readily. It simply allows the one phaser-4 that will be in arc of the approach to get off two to four (depending on the Klingon's closure speed) shots.
And for you to have your Battalion Communications Officer get on the horn and start SCREAMING FOR HELP.
Naturally, you will have spotted the F5s some distance further off, but there will not really be any action prior to crossing the 100 hex boundary (phaser-4 range). You can, nominally, expect the Klingons to move speed 30 when they cross the phaser-4 limit, so that they end that turn at range 71, slowing to speed 29 on the following turn (ending that turn at range 42). Probably with any excess power beyond that needed to move at those speeds in shield reinforcement, so a single phaser-4 will not accomplish anything. But the Klingons have to, to some extent, feel out the defenses. The last intel report may have said "One Defense Battalion", but what if it was wrong? What if there Battalion is a reinforced one? What if, even worse, a second battalion was present? Intell foul ups do happen.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 01:59 pm: Edit |
Well, you didn't have to go that far but OK I'll take it. I'll give a more complete post in a bit, though I will be getting a call to head out to work. (It's wrap up the job day).
I can tell you that on turn one my crews are beginning to load up transporter artillary into cluster bombs. How many? I'll post that later but a few at least.
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 02:22 pm: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Well, you have also not gott back to me in regards what fighter squadron you want. The existing F-4Cs, or the F-20Cs or the F-16Cs.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 02:33 pm: Edit |
SPP: Where is the F-4C? I only have a listing for the F-4.
Anyway, at this year I would far prefer to have the F-16C though it is one year early. I could accept the F-16. (and maybe add a GWS )
| By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 02:47 pm: Edit |
you could have a squadron of Prototypes 
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 03:24 pm: Edit |
SPP: Almost done. Many distractions and I just got the call. I'll see if I can get back to it tonight.
I'll take the F-16C (no GWS).
Will you allow one MRS in the mix purchased with Comm. Opt.? (It would be unusual but I have to ask.)
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 04:27 pm: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Take F-4 and add "C" refit. There is nothing that prevents you from having the "C" refit, nothing that says all F-4s were out of service. The "C" refit simply has a cost and an availability date, and what it does (converts the F-4's two type-VI rails to type-I rails). My actual reason for choosing F-4s is that it makes it easier to change time lines, and I consider them better than the F-8 in any case, and being "planetary defense fighters" there is no real reason to take them out of production (their type-I rails make them better than the F-16 or F-20 which only mount dogfight drones). In any case, any of the fighters would be under the "limited numbers up to two years previous" to the introduction date (Notes on Annex #4).
However, since you have switched to the F-16C, that reduces your BPV to 326.2, and since the F5 squadron had a BPV of 339.4, a change is needed.
The F5 squadron is now an F5L, F5K, and E4B, total BPV (with drone speeds and maximum possible Commander's Options, and warp packs for the four admin shuttles) of 319.8.
In re MRS; given limited availability, I do not think one can be made available to your battalion. I mean, jeez, you already got the F-16C Squadron. Don't get greedy (GRIN).
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 05:01 pm: Edit |
SPP: D'oh!
I got about eight blocks on my way to work and realised this whole thing isn't your point. I got to thinking how this is realavent to the prior discussion and desided that under the conditions given the spaced based vs. ground based fighter situation is irrelavent. Also, these are the conditions that would be most common and that the Empire (or Federation) in question wouldn't really spend a bunch of credits on preparing for a total suprise (i.e. the enemy approaches R30 while the system is at WS0).
I said irrelavent because, under the condidtions given I can easily choose whether my fighters enter space or not. Indeed, part of my tactics would be to send my fighters behind the planet and opperate under the protection of the terrain. Popping out when I want to launch drones etc. I can fly my F-16Cs at speed 6 (no WBP) and HET once per turn (three hexes out and three hexes in), to stay under cover. You can do little to my planet unless you get close. If you manage a sizable drone wave I can transport a T-Bomb from the Garrison. I wont use the Def. Sats. until you get close. Fighters with Ph-Gs can also swing around and wipe out any wave you can muster under the protaction of EW or even EM. If you are close then 11 Ph-Gs and two Ph-4s, a huge wave of drones in multiple parts, and fire from the Def. Sats are going to clean the Squadrons clock. If you manage to transport any troops, say even enough (which would leave your ships barren or BPs so while you are transporting to the planet I could be transporting to you, ....maybe.) I've got more than just BPs to fight you off with. I have three GAS, four GCVs, transporter artillary and fighters with cluster bombs.
I was working on something far more detailed but I decided to turn around and do this. Basically, I'm not too sure why, to paraphrase, the Battalion Communications Officer gets on the horn and starts SCREAMING FOR HELP.
Perhaps you could split your squadron up and swing around to hit my fighters from long range but I'll just keep the fighters hidden from at least one of you F5s. Long range Disruptor fire is not going to do much against STM and built in ECM (not to mention the F-16E).
The F-4 squadron could do a similar tactic but would be far less a deterent because of a lack of Ph-G. You may be able to take out some of the F-16s as they make their run at you though the Ph-G is leathal enough to warrent great consern (could you take out enough?). If I swing around the planet while you try to approach, I could catch you fighting a wave of drones with no shield reinforcement (taken down by the Def. Sats) before R5. And just as you reach R5 you can shake hands with at least 2 Ph-4s.
So, no it doesn't matter if the fighters are in space to start or not, unless the planet is caught by total suprise (R30 or less at WS0) and there are other systems in place that are supposed to prevent such a total suprise. If there aren't then the planet will have better defenses (or none at all because it's not worth protecting).
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 08:04 pm: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Actually, part of what I am doing is taking a look at your thought processes and how you think rules work.
There is not, for example, any reason the F5 squadron (Well, two F5s and an E4) is ever going to come into arc of more than one phaser-4. They have 180 degree arcs, and have to be deployed to cover the whole planet (the situation did not envisage only one GCL/hexside of the planet to defend).
Further, if the fighters "hide" then you lose if the mission is bombardment. Remember that in a bombardment mission, destruction of the Ground Bases is not a requirement, just something nice to do that would make the job easier.
Also read the introduction to (R1.28), of which (R1.28G) (your Small Ground Military Garrison) is part, then see (R1.14A1). So you can see why I am curious about knowledge of the rules for combating small bases on planets (or asteroids or moons for that matter) in this case. If you bought a T-bomb, or T-bombs, for any of your ground bases, you are wasting the BPV. And, no, this is not meant in any way to be offensive towards you, I am just trying to feel out your thoughts and concepts for the operation and trying to see where there are misconceptions and disconnects. It HAS been a long time since I went after a planet, so I do NOT expect to be perfect in my own construction. [But, I will confess that there has been more than one time while defending a planet under attack that I have grumbled about (R1.14A1).]
As to your DefSats downing any shields by themselves, are you really sure that six phaser-2s, and six phaser-3s (assuming you managed to get them all in arc) are going to be that devastating? (If there is no shift, the average damage at range four for such a weapons suite is only nine points, not even enough to drop a flank shield on an E4B.) I fear you over-estimate the value of their firepower (note, it was stated that they are "drone armed" DefSats).
Things I am still trying to draw out is how you will deploy your other three bases, and why. Options would include:
putting all three with one of the three Ground Based Defense Phaser-4s, or
one with each Ground Based Defense Phaser-4,
or two with one Ground Based Defense Phaser-4 and one with one of the other Ground Based Defense Phaser-4s, or
one with a ground based defense phaser-4 and . . . and so on.
How will you deploy them, and why?
I am also curious, facing the possible multiple threat, what you chose for your Commander's Options, and how you loaded your fighters.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 10:09 pm: Edit |
Well, (R1.14A1) I missed. Aaaak. Grumble. Hmmm, well, there's a point FOR the ODP.
Anyway, I did read (R1.28G) already. So no surprises there.
I will finnish my lay out. Gee, I thought I had learned the lesson you were trying to teach me. I should know by now you guys aren't so cryptic.
Regarding the Def. Sats. I didn't say they would bring down any shields. Look closer, I was speaking of reinforcement. The Def. Sats. in that situation would bring down the reinforcement. So your shields would be barren to the mass of Phaser-Gs.
I have laid out the bases but didn't finnish the commanders options. The planet in 2215 had def. Sats. on sides A, C, and E. The Phaser-4s are on B, D, and F. The GMG in on side A with the FBG-S (1) and FBG-S(2) is on C.
I laid them out this way so as to not encurage an direct approach over one target. The easiest approach is from E or D but the stations are under their best cover.
If the fighters are hiding, it is only during your approach. They can pop out any time, perhaps after your fire if you fire at the planet. Speed six allows the F-16Cs to accelerate to 12 at any time (plotted).
I may have to think a bit more and put FBG-S(2) on D. And tie all same side bases together on a power grid. Hmmm, by putting FBG-S(2) on side D that gives me full drone control of the fighters one turn launch rate and the fighters can then launch and dive back back behind the planets shadow.
If the mission turns out to be bombardment I would adopt your tactic and have my fighters hover above their stations and launch. This allows me a faster turn around. But if the F5s approach then I want the squadron in space as I have said beofore. So, I'll start out in space and watch your moves. When I am out of drones, I go reload. If you have started bombardment then when I relaunch I will remain in the atmosphere.
I believe the F5 squadron will have little chance to capture the planet.
Re:Com. Opts.: I don't have all the details (I just got back from work) but basicially there will be no t-bombs . I assume the drone costs for the fighters were for fast speed given the year date. So the Def. Sats will get a load out of four Type-1F and one Type-4F. The Garrison will get some extra BPs and extra Transporter Artillary. Next I'll look at pods for the fighters, possibly a few phaser pods. F-4Cs would do better with phaser-pods.
I would also look at buying extra drones to load scatter packs with. The fighter bases have a lot of drones already but I think I would buy some Type-6s. If you end up with a drone ship or some fighters the Type-6 would be handy and I could reload faster for a defensive mission.
EW pods for the fighters on FBG-S(2) might be in order as the F-16E wont be able to cover them in the atmosphere mission.
That's a lot of stuff and I doubt I could buy them all so I'll have to go over it to see. The fast speeds for the Def. Sats are going to take a lot and I might choose M speed for that reason. Besides, you will have to be close for me to use them and M-speed should be able to cause you trouble. Maybe 4 type-1M and one type-4F.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:57 am: Edit |
Ooops, I now see you included drone speed upgrades for the drones on the Def. Sats.
BTW, a lot of stuff above was off the top of my head. A lot of thing I wanted are already included. This is what I came up with when I actually looked at the books.
OK, so here is the lay out. Planet class-M in 2215:
| Unit | BPV | Location |
| GMG | 20 | 2215 (A) |
| FGB-S | 12 | 2215 (A) |
| FGB-S | 12 | 2215 (D) |
| GBDP | 14 | 2215 (B) |
| GBDP | 14 | 2215 (D) |
| GBDP | 14 | 2215 (F) |
| DefSat-D | 20 | 2214 |
| DefSat-D | 20 | 2316 |
| DefSat-D | 20 | 2116 |
| 11 F-16C | 88 | 6+5 at FGB-S |
| 1 F16E | 9 | FGB-S(A) |
| Drn Spd F | 23+18 | Ftrs and DefSats |
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:49 am: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Ahem, sorry, but the BPV cost to convert an F-16C (or any drone-armed fighter) to a mega-fighter does NOT include the speed upgrade of the drones added by the Mega-Fighter Pack [(J16.12), (J16.241), and (J16.246)], so the actual cost is 50% of the F-16C's BPV (3.5, not 4) plus two points to upgrade the drones added by the Mega-fighter belly pack from slow to fast speed for a total of 5.5 meaning that to upgrade four fighters to Mega-fighter standard is 22 BPV, not 16.
Ground Military Garrison: BPV 20, Commander's Option Points available: 4.
Ground Based Defense Phaser-4: BPV 14, Commander's Option Points available: 2.8
Ground Based Defense Phaser-4: BPV 14, Commander's Option Points available: 2.8
Ground Based Defense Phaser-4: BPV 14, Commander's Option Points available: 2.8
Small Ground Fighter Base: BPV 12, Commander's Option Points available: 2.4
Small Ground Fighter Base: BPV 12, Commander's Option Points available: 2.4
Squadron of 11 F-16C and 1 F-16E: BPV 97, Commander's Option Points available 19.4.
Drone-armed Defense Satellite: BPV 20, Commander's Option Points available: 0
Drone-armed Defense Satellite: BPV 20, Commander's Option Points available: 0
Drone-armed Defense Satellite: BPV 20, Commander's Option Points available: 0
Drone Speed Upgrades: 22 type-IF drones on F-16Cs +22, 2 type-VIF drones on F-16E +1, 18 type-IF drones on Defense Satellites +18, total 41 BPV, Commander's Option Points available: 0
Warp Booster Packs for 11 F-16C, 1 F-16E, 3 GAS, and 3 Admin Shuttles +18. Purchased as part of force (J5.32), does not count against Commander's Options or add to BPV points for Commander's Options.
Total BPV is 338.6.
Generally Available Commander's Option Points 17.8, but about 1.7 points of that is pretty unusable (since each small ground base has to purchse its own Commander's Options, you cannot "pool them", and cannot purchase transporter Artillery if you do not have transporters which only the Ground Military Garrison has). You could purchase a few "trucks" which can at least be given up to satisfy casualty points even if they cannot attack in ground combat.
Commander's Option Points that can only be spent on fighter supplies: 19.4. Also, when considering purchases for the fighters, remember that the Small Fighter Ground Bases are "Carriers" (they have a "V" in the notes column) and so already include some supplies just for that reason, see (J4.75).
| By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:02 am: Edit |
Ya know, this could be the seed of a CL article or 2..."Could You Give Me an Example Of...Buying Planetary Defenses" or an article on how planets are defended or attacked. Great reading from both Steve and Loren.
| By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:27 am: Edit |
Alex,
I second that. It might also make an intersting battle force scenario or just scenario. One other objective that could be considered is drawing fleet element(s) away from whatever it/they were doing to drive off the Frigate squadron.
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:43 am: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Also do not forget the free pods you get in (J11.131) (which includes the EW pods in (J4.75), it does not double them).
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:39 pm: Edit |
No pooling, I see where that limits things.
I did see the GMG description allowing the EW pods and other goodies. I just didn't write them down as they were given.
"Warp Booster Packs for 11 F-16C, 1 F-16E, 3 GAS, and 3 Admin Shuttles +18. Purchased as part of force (J5.32), does not count against Commander's Options or add to BPV points for Commander's Options."
I read (R1.28A) to include these and for the others at the GMG I didn't want to buy them.
I also read (R1.28G) to read that I could buy extra BPs as part of the force and just used part of the Comm. Opt. as force points to reach the given BPV total.
Fighter-mega packs. Is it the rule that these drones must be Fast speed. Could I, for instance, choose M speed for these and sacrafice the extra deck crews?
"(which includes the EW pods in (J4.75), it does not double them). "
I don't understand. What do you mean by "does not double them"?
<Note:> I woke up with vertigo this morning and am feeling lousy so if I'm off in space about anything above, please forgive me.
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 04:52 pm: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Not trying to make your life any harder. I acknowledge that you are ill (hope you get better soon).
I think your reference to the "GMG" above is supposed to be to the "FGB-S", as the GMG does not get EW pods (what would it use them for if it had them? GAS and Admin shuttles cannot use them). Maybe you were referring the GMG's Transporter Artillery Rounds?
As to the Warp Booster Packs, you are running into a situation apparently not well explained (sorry).
Okay, it works like this. If you are playing a scenario set in Y170 (or actually any time before warp packs are introduced) your quartermaster is not reporting they are in inventory and that he does not know what they are for. The stated storage for warp packs is the "spares" available if you have warp packs. In most scenarios warp packs are simply provided in the rules (the BPV of the fighter still goes up, of course, if it uses a warp pack), but this is NOT a scenario. This is something where we are CREATING something. If we later wrote this as a scenario we would say "All Fighters and Shuttles have warp packs", but we are not there. So since we are creating this, the points count, and to have those spare warp packs, you have to buy warp packs. However, rather than using the standard rule for spare warp packs in (J5.0), Ground Bases have their own limits on the number of spares that are received. Small Fighter Ground Bases have the same spare warp pack storage as an Auxiliary Carrier, i.e., two spares per fighter, while the Medium Fighter Ground Base has the same storage, i.e., three spares per fighter.
Now, technically, if this was a "historical scenario" we would know for sure what each side had. However, what we are sort of doing is taking a look at how you think things should go, your plans and deployments, your drone purchases, commander's options purchases, etc. And we are cheating in that you are to some extent pretty much tailoring your thoughts against the specific threat (a subterfuge) which is not really how you would get to do it. For example, suppose you are not told that report was garbled, and what is really coming is two D5Ks and a G1 on a mech link?
My reference to the EW pods not being "doubled" is that (J4.75) provides a set amount of EW pods, and rule (J11.131) mentions those same EW pods, it not adding more EW pods in addition to the other Pods that it does add.
As to drone speeds, see (FD2.454) which allows this (purchase of drones at a lower speed than the generally available type).
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 04:54 pm: Edit |
Oh, yes, the rule against pooling Commander's Options Points is (S3.26).
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 04:58 pm: Edit |
Oh, yes. I also had time to check the rules, and under (J8.511) you could not have an MRS shuttle at a Fighter Ground Base. While a fighter Ground base is a "carrier", it is also Size Class 5, and the rule only permits Size Class 4 carriers to have MRS shuttles. No provision for size class 5 carriers or other units is made. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head (Specific rules overriding General rules) is the Klingon G1N.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit |
Re: (S3.26) ya know, I knew that but for some reason I was stuck in thinking that the entire planet was a single system. It was treated as a single system for allowing Fighter Caps and I kept that line of thinking when purchacing Comm. Opts. (since the entire system IS under one commander). Maybe there could be a consideration made to make an exception?
Re: (J8.511) I had figured as such but I asked anyway. Though, the reason you give above defines it better than my own reasoning.
Re: WBP. Since I am defending a fixed instalation I would prefer my fighters NOT have WBP as these will rendure my not so tough fighters too fragil.
Oh ya, you are right, I did intent the FGB-S in place of the GMG. Ooops.
Still not feeling well. Still have a bit of dizzieness and that "Car sick" feeling in my head. I HAD to work too and almost fell on my butt trying to put a ceiling vent cover on. I'm home now and the job is done. Only have to collect money tomarrow and work on cabinet design drawings. I will also review everything and make some changes since I NEED EW pods for at least the southern fighter group (FGB-S(2)).
I have been trying to work in the confines of (S8.0).
Thanks, Steve, for this. Most enjoyable. I naturally assume you are not trying to make anything difficult. Thanks for the "Get well soon". I hope I do as being sick sucks.
| By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:32 am: Edit |
Loren Knight:
Well, remember, part of what is going on is that we are looking at a situation in which you "DO NOT KNOW" what is going to happen.
When you took command of the battalion, part of the situation is that you took command of "local space". Thus having warp booster packs, even if you would not use them in "this particular situation" is de-riguer (probably have spelled that wrong). Your GAS shuttles have them in part because you MIGHT be sending them to a nearby freighter in "distress", or to resolve a situation on another planet (or on an asteroid or moon) in the system. Having the booster packs means that the GAS with the troops will get there faster, and the fighters need packs for pretty much the same reason (they might be escorting the GAS shuttles, and it would be embarrassing to have the GAS shuttles complaining about the fighters holding them up).
So you are going to have them. Whether you choose to use them or not is simply an option.
And remember, having the packs ON THE FIGHTERS/SHUTTLES simply allows you another tactical option. The packs do not affect the fighter (or shuttle) in any way UNLESS YOU SWITCH THEM ON. The fact that your F-16E has warp packs does not impede the speed that it moves, or make it more vulnerable to fire if the pack is not operating (J5.131). But it does allow you, at a critical moment, perhaps when the Klingons have emptied their weapons, to suddenly double your current speed (J5.14) and close for a phaser-G attack. So having them does allow some tactical flexibility.
So I cannot see you, as the battalion commander, directing your fighter commander to have all the warp packs removed from the fighters.
Also, need to clear something else up. Purchasing four Mega-Fighter upgrades will cost you 14 points (versus 16 points as you thought) of Commander's Options, not 22 points of Commander's Options, the other eight points for upgrading the drones on the mega packs to fast speed is part of the cost for drone speed upgrades, a separate calculation. The upshot is that you do NOT have to give up any deck crews, the eight points for fast speed does not impact that, and in fact you have two more points of commander's Options than you thought (the difference between the 16 you calculated and the actual cost of 14) to spend.
As to EW Pods, the two Small Fighter Ground Bases each have 12 EW Pods (and this does NOT count the two already built into the F-16E) already. They also each have six Combat Pods, six Cargo Pods, and six Auxiliary Pods (which, at this stage, pretty much means five more Cargo Pods and one Sensor Pod at one base, probably the one that does not have the EW fighter, and six more Cargo Pods at the other base). And you could have used some of your Commander's Options to purchase a few more pods if you wanted.
| By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:59 pm: Edit |
Re: Jeez leweez, how could I read (J5.0) and not get that? Silly me. (J5.131) is the real clencher. And that is how we played for... forever, but recently I thought I was in error. Could I be mixed up in my dizzieness yesterday with PF WBP?
BTW: Feeling much better today, though slightly off. I should be able to respond with clearity.
OK Mega-Fighters. OK, the original proposal was that I could get F-16Cs (dispite the year) so the F-16CM would be 12 (+4 BPV x 4 upgrades = 16). If I was to upgrade streight F-16s the the cost of a F-16M is (7+3.5=10.5 and 3.5 x 4 = 14). So what do I get, F-16Cs or F-16s?
Re:EW pods. This is another thing I am confused about now. (R1.28A) SMALL FIGHTER GROUND BASE (FGB-S) states "There are 2 sets of warp booster packs, 2 ECM pods, and 10 chaff packs per fighter stored in the base.
Here is where I'm confused (and/or missing the opperative rule) The chaff packs are there as these fighters have them built into the purchase of the fighter. You just stated that the ECM pods are included and (J5.42) states that "All ships can be assumed to have one WBP for each of their shuttles, three for each of their fighters" (though the FGB-S discription modifies this to just two WPB, right?) (J5.422) States that "Extra WBPs could be purchaced as Commanders Options at a rate..."
So, why do I have to pay for WPBs?
Re. the other pods you mentioned. I know that carriers have those options but I didn't consider, given the FGB-S discription, that that rule would apply here.
| By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 01:12 pm: Edit |
I don't have the rulebook with me, but the rule section on fighter WBPs does indicate you have to pay a surcharge of one BPV per fighter in the scenario when "building your own".
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