Hi Paul.
I just played a quickie with Josh and we noticed that when you click and drag stuff it captures other pieces and moves them with the unit that is supposed to be moving. IE moving my ship was intermittently dragging my esg counters around and also his drones.

Also,
I could not reveal ESG counters or EA. He could not click on the counters and see Info. The last time this happened i fixed it by doing a reinstall to non jre (or fron non to jre, cant remember). Witht eh new update it seems to be a problem again.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 09:04 pm: Edit

Attempted to allocate gobs of damage to an Andro COU. First phaser hit was on the RS phaser. Second phaser hit was told "No Phasers available". The client DAC quit at that point and would not allocate any more internals.

Feedback sent

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Also when damage is undone to an Andromedan we've had issues with power remaining in them after the last volley is undone.

Some of the other Andromedans like the COB and RAT didn't seem to be allocating all their internals either.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 07:05 am: Edit

Andrew,
Did you make sure that the only piece selected was the ship? Did you send feedback?

Matthew,
I have been able to duplicate the issue. The issue happens when you have a single phaser box left, the type of the hit is "Phaser" and you click "No Phasers available". I have a fix for hit and it will be in the next update.

Josh,
Are you doing the same thing as Matthew?

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 10:08 am: Edit

Yes but there is also the issue with power being left in panels after you undo a volley of damage. Its not every time but frequently some power doesn't get undone.

I also have the same issue as Andrew, what seems to be happening is you can go from piece to piece left clicking and it will select them all. You used to have to hold down the shift key to select units this way and I think that was easier.

With the new update to clear the selections on the map you have to left click the map in an open hex, but in the past you could drag each unit and it wouldn't keep the units selected. Now its drag one unit on the map, click open map to deselect it, then repeat with another unit. If you try to just move to the next unit and drag it whatever you just moved will still be selected and will get dragged again with the next piece to move.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 10:33 am: Edit

I think for dragging pieces on the map the old way was much less work.

I like having the option to select and drag multiple units on the map but think that should be done with a Shift+left click or Ctrl+left click instead of being automatic.

For the damage allocation problem is there any reason this only seems to affect certain Andromedan units and not others? When I was allocating damage to a Devistator last night it didn't have the same issue with hitting no more phaser hits, and neither did any of the galactic ships I tested. But it did seem to be having the same undo damage problem where some of the power gets left in the panels when a volley is undone.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 12:22 pm: Edit

Josh,
When it comes to selection, I want the board to act like the standard way most interactive board games work. And I think the current way is pretty close. Yes, the issue reported about clicking on individual units adding to the selection should not look like that and I will look at that later today.

When comes to the DAC issue, the issue only happens if you are down to your last phaser. And obviously, for smaller units this happens more often. (i.e. the number of phasers is lower).

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 01:58 pm: Edit

I don't want any radical changes to how the board works, Andrew and I were just pointing out that something was changed with the units being added to the selection without having to use Shift+left click.

When I test the DAC on galactic small units I am not able to find the bug, so far its only happened with Andromedans for us.

Were you able to reproduce what I reported was happening with undo damage leaving energy in Andromedan PA panels? It doesn't seem to happen when I tried today.

Do you have any idea when you will be able to release the next update?

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Josh,
When it comes to the undoing issue, when is the last time you saw it? I ask because in past versions I know what would cause this. But it should have been fixed when I added support for 3rd Gen SSD Damage Allocation (i.e. version 4.0.98 released October 14th).

BTW, I have fixed the issue with selection.

I will release an updated tomorrow.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 05:27 pm: Edit

It was last night that we had the problem.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Josh,
Who has the problem? You or your opponent ?

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 07:57 pm: Edit

It was that same Andro battle where we found the phaser issue. Basically, we ran some tests (allocate N damage to a unit, and see how the bug surfaces) and the residual-energy bug showed up when undoing the damage.

To re-create, allocate some amount of damage to an Intruder's front panels (say, 80 damage). Then use the "undo last volley" function. Some power (yellow boxes) will remain in the panels. It might be that the panels that retain power (in error) are damaged in the volley you allocate.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 01:49 am: Edit

I wasn't able to duplicate the undo last volley bug many times when I tried.

We should be able to use edit ship to correct the SSD's in our game.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 07:22 am: Edit

Matt,
If you have the version of the client before version 4.0.98, that is the case. You see each SSD box in the client has a state and when you do damage allocation it saves the state of the box as it was before the state was changed. And previous the "undo volley" function assumed (incorrectly) that a box changed state only once. (i.e. from repaired or undamaged to destroyed) With the introduction of support for 3rd Gen SSD this is no longer the case. It has multiple states depending upon how many boxes are left. The bug was that the client was restoring boxes in the order in which they were damaged instead of doing it in reverse order. So before version 4.0.98, if a PA Panel Degradation box got energy from the initial volley and later in the same volley was destroyed. When you did an "undo volley" it would show energy in it. Because the state that was last saved was the box having energy.

Josh,
You will not be able to duplicate that issue because it has been fixed in the available version of the client. And I don't think Matt has updated his client.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 10:38 am: Edit

Client is up to date

Started new game. Added a single INT. Applied 120 damage to the front panels (via "allocate damage" drop-down). Did not select the "Reinforce panels" button. Internals had destroyed a single front-panel box. Undid the damage (via the "Undo Damage" drop-down). Three energy remained (yellow boxes) in the destroyed panel box, offset by the amount of degredation the panel received.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 11:05 am: Edit

That's where I went wrong I reinforced the panels. At reinforced levels it seemed to work fine.

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 02:17 pm: Edit

Josh,

Trying to understand your proposal for how it would work.

Currently, drag is move/slip and shift-drag is turn.

Traditional selection mechanics are shift-click for continuous or "halo" select, and ctrl-click for one-off/piecemeal selection addition.

Are you proposing to change how turn works to make that "move with my selection"? What if I want to turn with my selection? Could use control. My only concern with that would be training up new people. I've found the drag/shift-drag is often a stumbling point the first couple games. Giving you 4 options (drag, shift-drag, ctrl-drag, shift-ctrl-drag) Would complicate that, but I think could be doable.

Personally, I like it, but that's because as I often end up playing drone monkeys, I tend to have a lot of stuff to move per impulse.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Well I liked the way it has always worked in the past and agree there are already so many things to teach new players that fiddling with things may not be a good idea.

What I mostly didn't care for was how it would add pieces to what you've previously moved on the map. In the past after you drag a piece to a different hex it unselected that piece and you could go drag another one without clicking open map to clear the selection.

Im all for improvements that speed play and require little player thought or training to use.

So I wasn't really wanting things changed just the fix back to the way things were. But I can see a time and place for wanting multiple units selected on the map, that is why I thought shift+left click would work. That's not a drag to a new hex so it wont change the pieces position but would let you select a series of pieces. I think that was the way it worked in the past.

It would be cool to be able to select all units in a hex possibly by Alt+left click, maybe that's already assigned to something but when you have a stack of drones all chasing the same target and want them to move together it would be nice to be able to select the stack.

Other time saving ideas would be adding the ability to show move status on the board. That way when you get down to the last few hard to locate drones or fighters it could highlight their hexes for you so you at least know where to start looking. That information is already available through configure but not in a visual way on the map.

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Monday, November 11, 2013 - 12:06 pm: Edit

I will attest that the most annoying thing I deal with is that last 3 drones that got hidden under a shuttle or some turn markers.

That's generally only in full fleet operations, though.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Monday, November 11, 2013 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Yeah all my ideas were intended to speed full fleet operations.

How do you think the client could be improved for handling full fleets?

I think some visual way to tell where the pieces that need moved are at on the game board would be a big help. But that could take more programming time than its worth, we all eventually find the last drones and get them moved. It sure would be nice to streamline the process so that the games wouldn't take as long.

Perhaps a function where you could hit a button that cycle through all of your pieces scheduled to move in the correct order.

I'm envisioning something that centers on a hex and brings the unit to the top of the stack and allows you to move it with arrows or dragging. After that piece has moved it goes to the next one and you repeat the process until movement is done. That would be a pretty radical change from what we do now and it could be considered rules enforcement since it should prompt you to move pieces in the correct order.

The latest update seems to be working well, tested it on the pesky Courier and it takes damage beautifully now. Have not tested the undo volley on PA's yet but that's a minor issue since edit ship can be used to fix the panels.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 11, 2013 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Tried out the newest update today. Noticed two things:

1) In the middle of a turn, if you look at your speed plot chart (in your EA), there is a yellow line that goes across the impulse chart, that presumably exists to highlight what impulse you are on. Although it was always one impulse behind (i.e. when I went to go look at my speed plot on impulse 21, impulse 20 was the one highlighted) consistently.

2) Your weapon stats chart doesn't indicate that plasma torpedoes have ever been launched (i.e. when I looked at my "weapon stats" screen, all my plasma launchers read as never having been used, even though they had been launched multiple times already).

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Monday, November 11, 2013 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Josh: There is a column you can configure in the unit-list window, to tell if a unit is scheduled to move that impulse and if it has moved that impulse. I'm using that column in the game where you blew up that courier.

Peter: A similar thing is happening to the G-Racks (which might fire ADDs sometimes). Perhaps it's related to the dual-mode launchers (bolt v launch, etc). I noticed that fighters were correctly tracking drone launches.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Monday, November 11, 2013 - 04:20 pm: Edit

The weapon status thing seems to be affecting all seeking weapons we've tested.

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 08:50 am: Edit

If I have a stack of units and click and drag to move them, the click still captures and additional unit and drags it along. A pain with drones...

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 09:57 am: Edit

Did you update Andrew, because the update fixed that for me.

There were still some issues with seeking weapon status on the weapon status tab.