If the Nic wants to run, let him.

When he reaches a certain distance,
20-25 hexes, stop, let him reach the disengage
range (30 IIRC).
Claim he disengaged and take the victory points.

He can't win if he's not fighting.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:36 am: Edit

Hi Mark. That is an interesting suggestion, but I don't think it would work.

Under (C7.0) Disengagement, it states that there are four means of disengagement: acceleration, separation, sublight evasion, and automatic.

Under (C7.11) Acceleration, it states: On a given game turn, the starship wishing to disengage by acceleration must move (for the entire turn) at the maximum possible practical speed...At the end of that turn, if the starship in question still has total warp power available equal to either 50% of his original warp power or 15 points of warp power, the owning player simply announces that he is "disengaging." His ship is then removed from the board and presumed to return to its nearest base.

Also, under (C7.2) Disengagement By Separation, it states: If....a given unit is not within 50 hexes of an enemy ship, then that unit may, at the owning player's discretion, be deemed to have disengaged.

(C7.3) Disengagement by Sublight Evasion does not really apply and (C7.4) Automatic Disengagement is for Monster Scenarios.

So the Disengagement Rules don't say that the opposing player can force the Nicozian player to Disengage, the Owning (Nicozian) player must be the one to Announce they are Disengaging. I also could not find any reference to Disengaging if you are over 25-30 Hexes from the enemy ship.

But, the Disengagement Rules aside, the true issue (in my opinion) is dealing with the Nicozian's speed. It is not that the Nicozian is "not fighting" as you say, but rather that he is using his speed to control the distance and engagement. I believe this to be good tactical strategy. Fight when you want to fight (not when the enemy wants to fight) and Engage when you have the Advantage (and the enemy has a Disadvantage). Do not Engage when you have a Disadvantage and the enemy has an Advantage.

The Nicozian is moving super fast and has power to spare. We believe that he can outrun any Plasma launched on any turn or over different turns (this has not been proven in playtest yet though). On an Open Map, where you cannot "mug the Nicozian in the corner", what is the best way for the Plasma using Gorn to win (and is that enough)? It seems the two answers are Sabot and Plasma Bolt...but maybe there are more.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:52 am: Edit

Giving it some thought, it would be very interesting for the Nicozian to go up against an Empire that can "control the battlefield and your movement."

The two Empires that come to mind are the Neo-Tholians with their Web Caster and the Cholorophon with their Spore Caster. Perhaps these two Empires can project their "terrain" to box the Nicozian in at a critical moment and hamper his movement?

These will be fun battles to Playtest in the future.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Looking at the Gorn's Plasma Bolts, it could stand a good chance of winning against the Nicozian.

At Ranges 0-5, 2 Plasma-S Torps and 2 Plasma-F Torps fired as Plasma Bolts can do 50 points of damage with a 66% chance to hit. That will crush the Nicozian's front shield and score Internals. Add the Phaser-1s and the Nicozian could be crippled in that blast.

At Ranges 6-10, 2 Plasma-S Torps and 2 Plasma-F Torps fired as Plasma Bolts can do 44 points of damage with a 50% chance to hit. That is still enough to penetrate the Nicozian's Front Shield and do Internals. Plus the Phasers as well.

Alternatively, the Plasma Bolts can be spread out over different turns as well.

It seems the Plasma Bolts will not be real effective at Range 11+. So it would depend on how close the Gorn BC was able to get to the Nicozian to use the Plasma Bolts...

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Plasma bolts suck at best a 50/50 chance. Most times they miss. When i played with my last group we had a house rule. When i ship ran away and reached disengagement by separation. The other side gained the victory points. The reason being we felt a battle in open space is being fought to prevent one side are the other to reach a specific point are goal. So if you run off and lose contact. Where did the opponent go. To attack that convoy are the weakly defended colony. It helps when one plays old Romulan who are weak on open space.

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 06:30 pm: Edit

I concur with Norman. I'll take 50/50 over 0% every day of the week.

I'd also suggest that Gorn vs. Nic is very similar to Gorn vs. Andro, in that in both cases, the opponent is high speed and capable of evading massed plasma.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 09:11 pm: Edit

Well, how well does the Nico shoot when someone is following him at speed 30 or so?

Gorn hold/ rolls plasma and just chases at high speed firing a P1 or so every turn as he has spare power.

Gorn has 30 warp, 4 impulse and 4 apr (from memory)?

So he has 4 power to shoot as P1 (after housekeeping) every turn into the Nico shield 4 while chasing.

And I agree that there HAS to be a reason for one to fight in open space. Like Gregory said, you are keeping them away from a colony, convoy, endangered species, whatever...

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Hi Mike (G). The Gorn BC has 32 Warp, 4 Impulse, and 2 APR. So your Total Power estimate of 38 is right on.

Having the Gorn accelerate as fast as he can while firing a few PH-1s is something we are going to try as well. It may or may not be successful.

The Skip Missiles on the Nicozian are RS and LS, so he will be able to fire at least two Skip Missiles at you while you are chasing him, possibly four Skip Missiles. That will probably eat up your 4 PH-1s, since they take 5 points to destroy. And if he launches 4 Modular Anti-Shield Skip Missiles at you, you are in a bit of trouble. Each one will take 9 points to destroy and will cause 8 points of damage if its hits. That is potentially 32 points of damage to your #1 Shield if you are chasing the Nicozian.

In addition, the Nicozian has 4 Phaser-Ps which can fire to the RH. So your #1 Shield is going to take damage from either 4 PH-2s or 8 PH-3s. And you will not have reinforcement since you are pushing your speed to the max.

Lastly, the Nicozian could have a few Warp Field Distortion Mines. Chase him at full speed and you might find that he drops one right in your face. Now you have a Mini Black Hole to deal with.

But the Gorn will be able to Plasma Bolt once his Plasmas are armed, so it could equalize things. We will have to see how it plays out.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Hi Mike (G) and Gregory. I think that a friendly discussion about an Open Map versus a Closed Map is beneficial to all. And while I agree with you that there is great value to playing on a Closed Map, I believe it is important to provide a counter-argument for why you should play on an Open Map. Please bear with me through this lengthy response, as I believe each example and point to be valid. If, at the end, you still think you are correct and I am incorrect, then we can simply Agree to Disagree.

I don’t think a Closed Map should be the Default playing map and you should only use an Open Map if there is a REALLY good reason. In fact, probably the Reverse is True.

There are countless reasons why starships would enter into combat with each other. In my opinion, that is not the real issue. The real issue is whether there is a target or object that Cannot Move. Some examples might be a Base Station, a Starbase, or a Planet. If something cannot move, then indeed, the Closed Map makes sense.

But space is extremely vast. We have two warships that can move at Warp Speed. If they get into combat with one another, are they going to be “boxed in” in outer space? Of course not, this makes no sense and is extremely unrealistic. The two starships would maneuver, accelerate, gain distance, circle, close, and they would do all of this within the enormous space that is all around them.

In Module T, under (P17.1) and (P17.2), it states: “The map is fixed; it does not float….Any ship trying to move off the edge will take five damage points on the shield facing the barrier and come to a complete stop.” This is a match with a time limit, overseen by a judge, where the ships are forced to fight in a confined area. But does this make any sense? If the Enterprise really flew into space and encountered a Klingon that was faster and more maneuverable than it, could the Enterprise just count on a “barrier” to hem the Klingon in a corner while the Enterprise unloaded all of its Photons on it? Would the match simply end after a certain number of rounds had elapsed?

Or perhaps the question should be: Is Star Fleet Battles solely about Tournament play or is it also a Realistic Starship Combat Simulation based on an Old TV Series? If you say the latter, then why play solely on a Closed Map?

Lets look at some other Real World Examples.

Bruce Lee is going to fight Chuck Norris to see who is the better fighter. Should they fight on a open Football Field, in the Roman Coliseum, or in a cramped Back Alley? If Chuck Norris pushes Bruce Lee into a corner in the Back Alley, lands multiple hits because Bruce Lee cannot move, is Chuck Norris the better fighter?

Two World War I planes are in a deadly Dogfight with one other. One plane is clearly much faster and more maneuverable than the other plane. Should the slower plane have the advantage of four gigantic skyscrapers hemming the faster plane in?

Two naval ships are in battle with each other. Both ships are the same size, but one ship is faster and more maneuverable than the other. To see who is victorious, should they fight on the open ocean or in a lake?

Two tanks are in combat with each other. One tank is quick and agile. The other tank is slower but carries much more firepower. To see who is better, should they fight on the open plains or in a parking lot?

I also believe it is the Player, Captain, or Commander of the vehicle that is being tested, not the vehicle itself. The vehicle plays some part in the contest, but ultimately, it is the Choices of the Player that should decide Victory or Defeat. If the vehicle is granting Victory regardless of the Choices the Player makes, then the vehicle should be looked at more closely.

Finally, lets examine the Scenarios from the Captains Basic Set:

(SG1.0) THE DUEL – FLOATING MAP
(SG2.0) FLEET ACTION – FLOATING MAP
(SG3.0) BASE DEFENSE – FIXED MAP
(SG4.0) BASIC PIRACY – FLOATING MAP
(SG5.0) DUEL WITH A PIRATE RAIDER – FLOATING MAP
(SG6.0) PURSUIT INTO THE ASTEROIDS – FIXED MAP
(SG7.0) THE PIRATES GO FOR BIG GAME – FLOATING MAP
(SG8.0) ASSAULT ON A STARBASE – FIXED MAP
(SG9.0) A VERY SPECIAL ALLY – FLOATING MAP
(SH1.0) SABOTAGE – FLOATING MAP
(SH2.0) THE SURPRISE REVERSED – FLOATING MAP
(SH3.0) THE COMING OF THE METEOR – FIXED MAP
(SH4.0) CRUISE-DRONES – FIXED MAP
(SH5.0) THE DESTRUCTION OF ATTACK SHUTTLE GROUP #26 – FLOATING MAP
(SM1.0) THE PLANET CRUSHER – FLOATING MAP
(SM2.0) THE SPACE AMOEBA – FLOATING MAP
(SM3.0) THE MORAL EEL OF SPACE – FLOATING MAP
(SM4.0) THE COSMIC CLOUD – FLOATING MAP

So if the Scenarios in the Captain’s Basic Rulebook use both Floating Maps and Fixed Maps, then why is it necessary to have a House Rule about a person automatically Disengaging if they “run away” (of course, every group can have any House Rule they want)? If the Captain’s Basic Rulebook has both Floating Maps and Fixed Maps, then why should Floating Maps only be used IF there is a really good reason? I believe the answer is that there is Value in BOTH Floating Maps and Fixed Maps. Both Floating Maps and Fixed Maps showcase each individual Captain’s skill, experience, and knowledge. When something cannot move, then a Fixed Map should be used. When both ships can maneuver all they want, a Floating Map should be used. When two players are competing for a title, and a time limit and judge are necessary, then a Fixed Map should be used.

A Gorn that has fired its Plasmas and is moving away for 2 Turns to Reload is not “running”. A Klingon that is Saber Dancing at Middle Range is not “running”. A Federation that has fired its Photons and moves away for a turn to Reload is not “running”. And an opponent that is keeping its distance, circling around, constantly doing damage to you every turn while receiving no damage in return, is not “running” either.

We play on both Floating Maps and Fixed Maps. We don’t play solely on one or the other. But everyone is entitled to do what they want (and they should, to make the game fun for Them). These are simply my opinions being used to show that Floating Maps have Value, that Floating Maps have a time and place for use, that Fixed Maps should Not be the Default Map, and that, from a real world viewpoint, it makes Sense to use a Floating Map at times.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 04:51 pm: Edit

I do not believe this discussion(floating map vs closed map) should be discussed in this forum. Mind you i would love to hear others points for and against. I like a open map. Just not some one who is going to insist on retrograding every battle.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Hi Gregory. I also agree that the discussion of Floating Map vs Closed Map might belong in a different Thread. But I do believe it has relevance specifically to the Nicozians.

Because the Nicozians are so fast, able to outrun Plasmas and dance around opponents from a distance, several people (not just you) have suggested that the solution is to force the Nicozian to fight on a Closed Map.

I don't think using a Closed Map is the correct solution to the Nicozian's issue, so the topic of Open Map vs Closed Map is very relevant to this Nicozian Thread. By this I don't mean that the Nicozian will be just as effective on a Closed Map as on an Open Map. The Nicozian will indeed run into difficulty on a Closed Map. I just don't think we should say, "Boy, this guy is too fast, lets put him on a Closed Map so he can't go anywhere and so we can easily beat him up in the corner. There, that fixed the problem."

I think the issue lies in the Nicozian's design. Opponents (Direct Fire, Plasma, Drone) should be able to defeat the Nicozian on an Open Map (in my opinion). If they cannot, then the Nicozian's design should be reevaluated and tweaked accordingly.

By Stephen Parrish (Steveparrish) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 07:20 pm: Edit

In our game of the Nico versus a Gorn, the sabot and plasma bolts were used to good effect.

After reading Norman's playtesting, and our limited playing with the Nicos (where we used a closed map), it seems that they have the advantage on an open map, but are at a disadvantage on a closed one (or in a scenario where they are forced to defend something). Which is a balancing problem. The issue of open and closed maps is thus quite relevant to getting the Nico's right.

By Mark Steven Hoyle (Markshoyle) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 07:25 pm: Edit

If the Nicozian's are so fast?
I have difficulty coming up with a reason they should ever fight at all.
Only reason would be to defend a fixed position they just can't remove all their personnel from.
Basically putting them on a Closed Map.

Will say I'm working with a Gap of Knowledge about Nicozians.

By Stephen Parrish (Steveparrish) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 09:05 pm: Edit

According to the background, the crews on their ships attack because they go eventually insane when separated from the group mind on their home world.

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 10:29 pm: Edit

Effective play testing should mean that two equal opponents BPV-wise should (not always possible) come close to each other's capability on closed or open map. Sabots solved that issue with plasmas so if Nicos are so fast as to never have to engage close in and yet still can win, adjustments should be made. A ton of ships can do this to one degree or another but what fun is that? Retrograding is not winning....just not losing, for example. By the way, as a strong Fed player I always accept fixed or floating maps and have rarely not been able to get a close shot if wanted. That is because I play folks who want to have fun and not turn the game into an academic exercise.Just adjust tactics and there is opportunity in either map type. It is a wargame so improvise!

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis) on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 10:43 pm: Edit

Also remember that SFB is mostly modeled on pre missile era wet navy ships. The fact that starships can outrun weapons fire once detected is a rationalized construct of the game universe.

By Mark Steven Hoyle (Markshoyle) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 09:00 am: Edit

---

Quote:

According to the background, the crews on their ships attack because they go eventually insane when separated from the group mind on their home world.

---

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Mark - they are part of a uni-mind while they're home. Leaving home disconnects them from the uni-mind and they progressively lose it.

I *BELIEVE* that it's justification to have them as an opponent of ... everyone, when really no one would probably object to them just peacefully achieving their goals otherwise. Really, if they're not the aggressor, they're probably never coming into conflict with most empires.

By Stephen Parrish (Steveparrish) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Yes, the insanity idea is a way of giving the Nicos a reason to fight other races. The Nicos can't use anything that is not on Neutron stars, while no one else can use materials on Neutron stars, so the usual reasons for battles don't hold.

I think that the Nicos background needs to be tweaked: a highly paranoid state is more plausible than just insane. Indeed, that may be what Bruce Graw really meant.

If the Nicos really are driven to attack, then it seems that the tactic of keeping a distance from other ships is dubious. After all, the other races have no reason to fight the Nicos, and if the Nicos choose to fight from a distance, then the other ship would just leave.

I think the Nicos may have to be tweaked to make them more vulnerable on an open map, and stronger, heavier hitting, on a closed map. But we should wait till Norman and his group finish their play testing before our ideas become more concrete.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Norman Dizon:

I think the disengagement Mark Steven Hoyle is referring to is (S2.272) in Basic Set.

An unanswered aspect of your Gorn's combat is: Did he attempt to identify the skip warp missiles [see (F1.4)], or just assume that eight damage points would do the job? Note the Gorn can only make four such identification attempts a turn, but it is not clear if he made any, and failing to do so could have led to not allocating sufficient firepower to the task.

The Gorn does not seem to have taken steps to have a high energy turn available to bring his primary battery into arc. He has four batteries and if he had them filled with reserve warp power and an allocated point of warp contingently provided for a high energy turn, he might have been able to catch the Nicozian, so I have a question on his tactics.

Further, the action reads as the Gorn attempting to arm all weapons in the minimum time (three turns), and that 14 points of power on the final turn of arming is going to slow you and leave you just where he found himself. He might instead have delayed completion of the torpedoes (completing only one, two, or three as appropriate to his need to keep out of the Nicozian's grasp) so that he would have more power to move when he finally did engage. Delaying to complete arming (finish the F's first as they take no power to hold, then the plasma-Ss, and when they are done, taking four points to hold, you then have 30 points of power (less any for electronic warfare or other concepts, such as holding suicide shuttles or what not) for your attack turn (38 minus four points for housekeeping and four points to hold the plasma-S torpedoes) 30 points of power to work with. But if you try to complete all four torpedoes on one turn, that uses 18 points of power (eight for he plasma-Ss, six for the plasma-Fs, four for housekeeping, i.e., shields, fire control, life support) leaves you only 20 points, less any diverted to armed shuttles, tractors, transporters, electronic warfare, etc..


QUESTION ASKED: We had a question for SPP. This came up in our group discussion when sorting out the BPVs. The Speed 20/Skip 40 Missiles are Restricted Items. The Modular Warheads are Restricted Items. Can these be Combined? If yes, then how much is the total BPV for a Modular Anti-Shield/Explosive Speed 20/Skip 40 Missile? Whatever the answer, we recommend that this be clarified in the Nicozian's Rules.

REPLY: Standard rules. You are asking a variation of "if I put a Fast Engine on a Type-1 Drone in Y178 (Limited Availability) can I put a Swordfish Module (Limited Availability) in place of the explosive (general availability) warhead? The answer is yes. As to costs, under (FD93.272) and Annex #6 each Speed 40 frame increases the cost of the Nicozian ship by one point, and under (FD93.273), and Annex #6 there is no cost for warheads; you just swap and mix and match. There are limits on the numbers and types of some warheads as you are aware. I am pretty sure that (FD93.27) makes this clear. And by the way, the BPV of a Nicozian CA according to this rule (with only the slower missiles) is 176/156 because (FD93.274) says the cost of the missiles is not included in the ship's BPV, and each missile increases the ship's cost by 0.5, so 32 missiles would add 16 points, and each one of those replaced with the faster missiles adds another 0.5 points (replace a missile with a value of 0.5 with a missile of a value of 1.0 adds 0.5).

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Hi SPP. Thank you for the detailed response. I will respond to each of your points as best I can and then I had another question for you.

Firstly, I searched for (S2.272) in the Basic Set and I couldn't find it. I was looking for the title: DISENGAGEMENT. It was then that I realized you must mean (S2.27) STALEMATE.

I don't think this rule of Stalemate applies to the Nicozian using long-distance fighting in a Duel. It states, "If neither player has scored any internal ship damage or crew casualties, or destroyed any manned shuttles, within a period of 10 consecutive turns, a stalemate exists." A Nicozian CA, with a full compliment of Skip Warp Missiles (some of them Modular), firing Subspace Augers and Phaser-Ps over 10 turns, resulting in No Internals? That is highly unlikely. Possible, but unlikely. And the rule says nothing about going 25-30 Hexes away and then being automatically Disengaged.

No, the Gorn CA did not attempt to identify the Skip Missiles. I think this is something he regrets not doing. Having only 3 PH-1s to work with, and assuming each Skip Missile would take 5 points to destroy, he just fired two PH-1s at one Skip Missile and one PH-1 at the other. At Range 1, the two PH-1s are guaranteed to do at least 5 points of damage, and the single PH-1 will destroy the second Skip Missile on a 50/50 chance. He was quite surprised to find both Skip Missiles taking more than 5 points to destroy!

The High Energy Turn using Reserve Power is an excellent idea. This is something the Gorn player did not do, perhaps because he was low on Power or perhaps because he just didn't think about it. But you are right, turning around to face the Nicozian as he closed from behind would have changed the course of the battle.

Yes, it has been brought up previously that the Gorn should not have fired all his Plasmas at once at the enemy. It is a great addition for you to bring up the point that not only should the Gorn not have fired all his Plasmas at once, but he doesn't have to ARM all the Plasmas at once. This will save on Power in the long run. Another valid point that could have changed the outcome of the match.

Thanks for the clarification on the cost for a Modular Skip Missile. The Modular aspect of the Skip Missile makes them quite deadly!

I will be the first to admit that our group does not have perfect players. We try to use effective tactics, but we also play to have a lot of fun. We are far from textbook players who make no mistakes in battle, although some of us strive for that goal. But we do learn from each combat, and that is part of the fun.

The main thing I noticed in this Duel was that the Nicozian could outrun a Plasma and still have effective firepower. I also noted that the Modular Skip Missiles can be a great help in bringing down the shield of an enemy ship.

Could the Gorn CA have won? Maybe. But if the Nicozian keeps outrunning the Plasmas, no matter when they are fired (All at once or Spread out over multiple turns), then the Gorn CA is going to have to resort to Plasma Bolting.

Anyway, we appreciate all your suggestions and we will keep them in mind for the next Playtest Duel. Here is the other question that we had for you:

In the Nicozian Thread, you said that the idea of using the Wild Weasel to nullify the Nicozian's Skip Missiles was easy to counter. You just include an Explosive Skip Missile with a batch of Anti-Shield Skip Missiles.

But I am not sure how you mean for that to work. The Anti-Shield Skip Missiles are going to have to strike the Nicozian (not the Wild Weasel) during the Post-Explosion Period of the Wild Weasel. So it seems the Explosive Skip Missile cannot be stacked with all the Anti-Shield Missiles in one hex. Do you mean the Explosive Skip Missile should be sent before the Anti-Shield Missiles? Or that all the Skip Missiles should be staggered over many impulses with the single Explosive Skip Missile somewhere in the mix? When exactly should the Explosive Skip Missile be launched so that the Anti-Shield Skip Missiles won't be distracted by the Wild Weasel?

I appreciate your help. Thanks.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Hi Mark and Stephen. I would recommend that we be careful about making any assumptions about being "insane". Here is the basic definition along with the Wikipedia entry:

in·sane inˈsān/
adjective adjective: insane

1.in a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill.

Insanity, craziness or madness is a spectrum of behaviors characterized by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Insanity may manifest as violations of societal norms, including a person becoming a danger to themselves or others, though not all such acts are considered insanity. In modern usage insanity is most commonly encountered as an informal unscientific term denoting mental instability, or in the narrow legal context of the insanity defense. In the medical profession the term is now avoided in favor of diagnoses of specific mental disorders; the presence of delusions or hallucinations is broadly referred to as psychosis.

We all have our own assumptions about what an insane person is like and what a paranoid person is like. But who are we, as Sane People (I think), to Know what it is like to be Insane?

Given that we don't really know what "Insantiy" means for a person (much less a tiny alien like a Nicozian), how can we be sure how much the "Insanity" would affect their tactics on the battlefield? I believe the answer should be: We don't really know.

If Captain Kirk were driven Insane, would he be less effective in a space battle?

If Spock were Insane, would be less logical and therefore less effective on the battlefield?

Maybe instead of seeing Humans, the Insane Captain see Klingons, but all the rest of his mental faculties and memories function properly? Maybe Captain Kirk sees everyone in the Galaxy as beautiful women, but he is still great leading a fleet into battle? In other words, how do we know the extent of the Insanity and exactly what it affects in the (especially the tiny Nicozian's) mind?

We can't know, so keeping distance from a dangerous opponent, scoring damage every turn, is still quite valid even if the captain and crew are "insane".

Why wouldn't the ship just leave if the Nicozian kept attacking from a distance? There are plenty of reasons, but here are a few:

1) The Nicozian ship just randomly destroyed three freighters and killed tons of civilians.

2) There are populated worlds near to the unpredictable Nicozian. If you just leave, he might, for some unknown reason, attack the defenseless populated worlds.

3) Your ship is under attack and your shields are slowly losing strength. You try to leave, but the Nicozian is faster, so he chases you and continues to fire from afar, doing constant damage. Who knows what this crazed enemy ship is seeing, hearing or thinking?

4) Your superiors ordered your ship to investigate some strange happenings in this area. You find the reason is because of the actions of an Insane Nicozian. Can you just leave?

Anyway, my point is that we don't really know the distinction between Insanity and Paranoia. Perhaps Insanity IS Paranoia? And we don't know how "Insanity" would affect Tactics in combat. It may or maybe it wouldn't.

Yes, we may suggest to SPP that the Nicozians be tweaked so that they can be defeated on both an Open Map and a Closed Map. But I also believe the following to be true:

1) It is our responsibility as Playtesters to try to come up with the proposed solution to what we think is the issue. So we shouldn't just give it back to SPP, say it's broken, and then not suggest how to fix it. We should brainstorm.

2) Whatever fix we come up with, it should fix both the Open Map issue and the Closed Map issue. In other words, there should not be a separate fix for an Open Map and a separate fix for a Closed Map. There should be a single fix (or fixes) that make the Nicozian work on both types of maps.

3) We should Playtest the Nicozian with the suggested Fix(s) and report on the Results. This will make it easier for SPP to decide if the Fix works and solves the alleged issue.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 08:48 pm: Edit

I just noticed the similarities of the Nicozian to the Kzinti. Both can move fast. Both can launch a wave of Drones/Missiles and then follow them in. Both have a good amount of short range weapons. Instead of Disruptors, we have 2-Turn Subspace Augers.

So perhaps, Nicozian Tactics should be Kzinti Tactics?

By Stephen Parrish (Steveparrish) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Norman: You make some valid points about the other ship trying to fight the Nicos even though the latter keep their distance. Indeed, it could come to a point where some race or races try to kill every Nico they spot. Still it seems a bit odd to me that driven to attack, the Nicos keep their distance. Just an observation.

I of course agree with your final points 1-3. And thanks for the play testing you are doing.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Thanks Stephen. I am glad that you have a Playtest Result where the Nicozian lost on a Closed Map against a Gorn. It helps to compliment my findings so far on an Open Map.

Hopefully, we can work together to come up with a "fix" for the Nicozians, assuming they do need a "fix", which hasn't been completely proven yet.

It seems strange to have to go into the Definition of Insanity in a Star Fleet Battles Thread, but, just like the Open/Closed Map topic, it is Relevant to the Nicozians in particular.

Thanks for all your help and feedback.