As I understand the sabot rules plasma degrades over impulses moved, not hexes. This means a speed 48 plasma will move 15 hexes in 10 impulses. If I am wrong then it will do less damage, but please correct me as the sabot rules are still a little fuzzy for me. I was assuming a 40/48 X2 plasms which would be superior to a 32/40 X1 plasma.

When you calculate the BPV of a Fed CX what do you use to compare it? One approach is to figure the upgrade cost from a CB. Another is to playtest it against a DNH. Another is to playtest it against a group of expected enemies (2D5K for example). All three are viable options and all three should be used before settling on a final BPV. You used one approach, we used another, the approaches disagree, the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Finally comparing BPV to X1 is dangerous as X1 ships are known to have questionable BPVs.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Perhaps so. In any case, it's a moot point until playtested. We'll leave it for now.

Does anyont think the Roms would ever do a 2X WE? I'm working one up, just out of nostalgia's sake...I can't imagine SFB without a WE of some kind running around! Is the name Imperial Eagle taken at all? If not, that's what I'm calling it. Should look almost identical to the KEX, but with an X torp instead of the R, and the hull P-1's replaced by P-5's. Maybe some increases in warp and shields, just to keep with the 2X pattern...and an SIF of some kind, too.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Carl,

BTW, many of the "gee-whiz" techs we've discussed so far won't be seen on an SSD...or if they are, we're not sure how they'd be represented yet. What kind of thing did you have in mind? What would Carl's 2X Rom look like, or be capable of? Some input would be useful in developing these new ideas. I am working on a direct fire plasma weapon for the Roms, but haven't worked all the kinks out yet; basically, a plasma cannon that has some of the features of a mauler, and some of a plasma torpedo.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 07:25 pm: Edit

Plasma bolts that hit on a 1-6 if within the range 10 mauler arc?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 07:54 pm: Edit

No, but that's an interesting idea. These are a direct fire plasma gun that comes in three sizes; light, medium, and heavy. The have disruptor-like properties in that the damage they do drops off at range, and they use a 2-6 table for firing. They are restricted to a 120 degree arc. The heavy can dish out 35 points at point blank range, while the medium and light do 20 and 12 respectively. These damages drop off steadily out to a max of forty, where the damage is very slight, and the chance to hit is pretty slim, too. Really they're more of a medium-range weapon. I haven't tested them out yet, nor even posted the rules...but since Carl is interested in "new" stuff, I thought I'd bring it up. I have a variant on the XCC that mounts two medium ones, one in each module.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 08:18 pm: Edit

The plasma cannon. I like. Does it get a myopic zone?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 08:35 pm: Edit

I have been wanting the Romulans to move to a DF mode. That's why, way early on, I posted the Plasma Gatling. It basically allows the shot gun Pl-Fs to be bolted once per impulse and can be fired at any target. It is noted as PG on the last turn of arming and cannot be fired as seeking plasmas.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Mike, I'm sure the Roms will have an X2 Warbird. It may be conjectural, or very limited numbers, but I wouldn't consider the X2 module complete without one.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:06 pm: Edit

I would want to see one but as a new hull. Not an upgrade. And, yes, I agree. The module would be incomplete with out it.

I intend to do a XFF in that shape.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Tos,

What do you mean by myopic zone, precisely?

Loren/Jeff,

Here's the 2X WE I made up. It was more for fun, I guess, than anything else...but, if there is real interest, we can tweak it.

Romulan Imperial Eagle 2X Cruiser

It has 5 more shields than the KEX, and six more warp. Other than that, it simply trades out the Plas-R for an X, and changes the rear phasers to phaser-6's. The X torp is added just because, to me, the WE always has the "big gun" weapon.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:22 pm: Edit

The 2X ROM CA Opt boxes are limited to non power non weapons. Not even Bats can be added to the CA's Hull. IE NO Power or Weapon hits at all. But I'm gonna trim the Warp by 4 to fall in around 45 for the second version which will be part of my integrated proposal which should be ready next week.

The XSP I'm working on will have a much greater degree of modularity. But I'm not sure I like the way it's going so I may scrap it and start over.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:27 pm: Edit

Kenneth,

That's good to know. I thought that was the case, given where they were placed. Could you carry barracks, or perhaps mine racks?

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Barracks yes Mine racks I dont know possibly to unbalancing. But for now I would say Yes. But limited to rear boxes.

IE the Capt dont want all those HE's sittting right under his butt when he's on the bridge

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Just to prove that I don't always think proposed designs are too cheap, I'd put the Imperial Eagle at about 290, as usual assuming no non-SSD benefits beyond X1. Nice extrapolation.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Mike: Mind if I fiddle with it to make it look more ...modern?

With the ASIF I think the armor can go even though that is a staple of the Eagle design. Maybe, maybe not. I'll see what I can come up with.

Hmmmm, maybe the Romulans never have a ASIF like most others. Maybe they get powered armor. Each armor box can stop an additional two hits if powered by one point of any energy. So applying five energy to the X2 War Eagles armor would stop ten internals before permanatly damaging the actual armor. Hey, I like that. Put two to five Power Armor on all Romulan X2 ships.

Example: The XKE takes 11 internals. The armor is fully powered (all five boxes are powered one each). Ten internals are ignored and the first armor box is destroyed (it cannot be repaired except at a base). The next turn the XKE can power four boxes and could ignore the first eight internals.

So, this would have these effects. It would make the ship very stable against mizia until the armor is lost. Against a very large volly it would stop the first 15 internals. In this situation large vollies would likely be exchanged and the Romulan may well fair better. Unlike the ASIF it protects every thing until it's gone but as it is desroyed it weakens and doesn't come back.

What to call it??? Can't use P.A. so how about X.A. or X-Armor?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Loren: Fiddle away.

Andrew: Yeah, 290 would be about it for no 2X gizmos. But, it's got them (SIF, shield shunting, etc.) so I went with 350. The Plasma X, especially a sabot one, is one fearsome weapon.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Mike, thoughts on that X-Armor thing replacing the ASIF on Romulan ships?

BTW, is Shield Shunting the same as my Shield Mitigation proposal?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 10:11 pm: Edit

Not sure about the shield thing; mine was just that you could move boxes from one shield to another, but only to a damaged shield (i.e., you can't use it to reinforce a shield past its normal maximum). The amount was based on size class, and you could only move to adjacent shields. So, a SC 4 ship could move 5 points from #6 and #2 to #1, IF #1 had suffered at least 10 points of damage.

The X armor. Hmmm...well, for new construction it's a possibility, and a distinctly Rom thing to do. It'd have to be carefully balanced against the SIF abilities to make sure one wasn't vastly better than the other, but I think it's worth a shot. Don't see why you couldn't call it power armor, either...unless they call it that in Enterprise? If so, call it energizeable armor, or something.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 10:18 pm: Edit

I was saying that we can't call it Powered Armor because the acronym is P.A. wich is Andro. That's all. And X-Armor is easy to associate.

Yes, only on new construction of X2 ships. I would say that with this the Romulans could build slightly lighter designs as well, reflected by inproved turn modes (but still the same move cost). I'm talking about 5% lighter only. The X-Armor should provide an advantage of course.


So right now Shield Shunting is a general term for some kind of shield manipulation technology?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 10:24 pm: Edit

I think it's a good idea, though if it is for new construction, we might have to leave it off the Imperial Eagle. I had made it as yet another WE refit, presumable using one or two of the last remaining WE hulls. Unless, of course, the Roms revert back to that sort of hull for some of their ships. As they say "what once was old is new again."

And yes, as I understand it, shield shunting is just a term for transferring points of shielding from one to another, as a way to make it more flexible.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 10:52 pm: Edit

The plasma cannon rules are posted in the 2X plasma thread, for those that want a look-see. Please read my disclaimer at the beginning, though!

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 12:14 am: Edit

I would think the ol' Eagles would be too old for another major refit. I think they would consider a new Eagle. Honoring the past. There has always been a tactical advantage with the Eagle. That small ship wrapped around the big gun maneuvering into position for that fateful blow. Designed for the long mission. Slowly patroling Romulan space using cloaked movement. Dipping into enemy territory for that horrific raid on the border posts. These missions still need to be filled. A new Eagle would be awsome.

Three classes:

Impirial Eagle.(Most common of the X-Eagle class)
Strike Eagle.(CVL for border raids. An enhanced X-Eagle.)
Fire Eagle (X-Mauler with plasmas on the engines. The replacement for the Falcon. There would be only one old style hull class so the Mauler gets placed on the Eagle platform.)

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Mike, my ideas for Roms so far is 1) turnmode B for SC3 ships (this and the next idea is influenced by Rom experience with KR ships. KR ships DO have some advantages!)
2) Mechanically adjustable plasma arcs. Before a scenario the Commander (player) can decide if he want to have the heavy torps on his ship to be either LP/RP or FP.
This is because of my experiences with the tourney KR. Maybe I am wrong but I think the LP/RP arcs are better in duel situations, while I see the FP arcs can be useful in multiship battles.


Heavy ECM torpedo: CO. Restricted.
Can over 8 imps (or less) generate huge ammounts of ECM. Purpose: To break PPD lock-ons

Cloak changes:
Partial fade out. You pay half the energy but never complete the fade-out. You won't therefore break lock-ons. OTOH This allows protection from direct-fire (Feds).

Short cloak, 8 imps, to break seking weapons lock-ons. Energy cost 50%?

Changes to the ways ships pay for cloak:
You pay a percentage of the number of undestroyed
warp engine boxes. This keeps the speed up under cloak even for damaged ships.

I haven't though of any weapon yet, mostly because I think the X2 changes shouldn't be adding weapons. Also the weapons that are all-ready there all get improvements anyway.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Loren, what would perhaps justify the Eagle is the ability to land on planets and offload troops and vehicles.
The other missions can always be fulfilled by other ships.
Still I agree the Eagle ships are cool. But I wonder if building a different hull type (Eagle) can be justified.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 02:26 pm: Edit

Carl,

Well...I sort of have something like that I played with, but discarded as something a bit too drastic. It's similar to your line of reasoning in that the Roms "borrowed" some design philosophy from the Klingons, creating not quite a K-ship, but something between that and one of the modular hawk series...sort of the best of both worlds, as it were.

Here it is, but I don't expect to really send it in at this point.

Romulan XDD