Archive through May 07, 2014
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Star Fleet Battles Online: SFB Online Client: Bug Reports: Archive through May 07, 2014
By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 03:53 pm: Edit

Randy, you playing a game F2F is one thing. You chose the ships, at least in theory, so that your players may not have the ships in hand. Providing the SSDs then is a courtesy. They use up the SSD and it is gone.

SFBOL, the players in a campaign have control of what they build, right? They choose the empire they control, right? They are in control of their fleets. They make the choices. The SSD that you send them is NEVER "used up."

The SFBOL campaigners should buy their own SSDs.

Guys, we cannot stay in business if you don't buy our books. Giving "just this one away" and "just that one away" and "this one is really weird and you shouldn't have to buy it so I will give it to you" is Not Good for the health of the company. Your permission to photocopy is for your PERSONAL use. Not your buddy's.

I hate to be the meanie, but someone has to and it seems to be me today.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 03:55 pm: Edit

The reason this conversation is happening is that someone thought the situation was a bug. It isn't and I'm trying to explain why it isn't a bug.

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Along with Justin's point it would be real nice also if when a drone rack was destroyed it would show up as such in the expendables.

By Josh Driscol (Gfb) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Yes it would be nice if it cleared the destroyed rack of drones in expendables and if the rack was shown as destroyed on the IA launch table.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 04:07 pm: Edit

The only difference in my campaign is the fact that the second time around, it's being played online.
It took over two decades to play the first time, and I provided every single SSD for the battles.

Ok, I don't want this to be an SFBOL thing, and I have stated that several times now.

I don't remember what product fast dreadnoughts come in. But I do know that not everyone has that product, and they may only have one ship in their OOB (which *I* choose as the GM...*they* choose to build/convert them after that).
Just so I know, and can email my players...
Are you saying that in order for them to use that one ship, each one of them has to buy the entire product to do so?

It's really no big deal to me, because those Admirals have the ability to farm out their battles to an online battle captain who DOES have the product. But I need to know what to tell them, and it seems like that's what you're saying.

And the reason this conversation is still here is because, frankly, I have no idea where the hell it would go.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Randy, yes. That is what I am saying. No one is authorized to photocopy or scan an SSD and mail/email it to another person.

It is one thing to have an SSD that is consumed in play and you don't have it anymore. It is quite another to have two in existence when only one was paid for.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 04:29 pm: Edit

I have become aware of this conversation, and Jean is quite correct.

You can photocopy an SSD for someone playing at the same table as you are in the real world.

You CANNOT give, send, sell, or post an electronic SSD for anyone anywhere any time. To do that is a violation of the law and our copyrights. It's also very bad for the company. If you don't have a product, you don't get to use that product. Go buy it. That's why we printed it.

Now, SFBOL includes SSDs for most ships (and the rest will be added in due course). If the campaign is run through SFBOL, nobody needs to send anybody an SSD of anything since it's on line.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Quote:

You can photocopy an SSD for someone playing at the same table as you are in the real world.


Thank God for that...I've killed a forest of paper with ships on them for my players in all those years.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, May 01, 2014 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Randy wrote:
>>Your answer is non responsive to my question which I may have asked incorrectly. Let me try again.

I have 21 players in an online campaign.
If one of them has ships on his OOB that he does not have SSDs for, CAN *I* the GM provide them so s/he can play the new SFBOL?>>

Why does he have ships on his OOB that he does not have SSDs for?

If you are playing a campaign for this game, it makes sense to have the SSDs that you are using. If you don't have the SSDs, don't use them. Or, conversely, play on SFBOL where, theoretically (i.e. eventually), all the SSDs you want to use are online in the 3rd Gen version that works fine for playing online, but isn't real useful for downloading and printing off and playing with in real life.

If the SSD is on SFBOL, even in the 3rd Gen version, you probably don't actually need to have a paper SSD. It might be *helpful* to have the paper SSD, but assuming you have access to the BPV and some bits of data (i.e. turn mode, break down, crew, whatever--i.e. everything that is available on the MSC), the SFBOL SSD will work fine without a paper SSD.

The whole point here is that the company wants there to be *some* incentive to actually own some products. Given that with the 3rd Gen SSDs, all you really need is some rulebooks and a MSC to have access to every ship online, this strikes me as perfectly reasonable.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 04:36 am: Edit

Just one quick comment on this thread: Jean has to be the nicest meanie on Earth.


Garth L. Getgen

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 08:52 am: Edit

Peter,

Quote:

Why does he have ships on his OOB that he does not have SSDs for?


He's not the GM...I am. I'm the one who gives out the OOB. They can, of course, adjust their build schedule if they want. And again, I'm speaking in hypotheticals, because I haven't run into the problem just yet (but I expect to).

Quote:

If you are playing a campaign for this game, it makes sense to have the SSDs that you are using. If you don't have the SSDs, don't use them. Or, conversely, play on SFBOL where, theoretically (i.e. eventually), all the SSDs you want to use are online in the 3rd Gen version that works fine for playing online, but isn't real useful for downloading and printing off and playing with in real life.


Well, what spurned me to write in the first place was Justin's report saying the 3rd Gen SSDs on SFBOL were difficult to use. Somewhere it was mentioned that having a paper SSD handy would mitigate that.
And THAT begged the question for ME as a campaign GM, what I could provide for my players in MY game, and what I couldn't. SVC has said that if it were a F2F game (like the last campaign) then I was ok in providing SSDs for my group, which I did.
THIS campaign is online only (because there's no way in hell I'm going to find 21+ players in real life) and by necessity, the battles have to be resolved by SFBOL or some alternative. (And by alternative...I have some HTML5 concepts I'm considering proposing to ADB that has ZERO SSDs in it at all, and requires you to have the game material or you really can't play at all.)
And, although I personally don't see a difference in handing out paper to people at a table and handing out the same paper over the USPS (or printing at Kinkos and having them pick it up) for them to play online, SVC has spoken on the matter, and I'm obviously going to comply.
If I have players who don't own the products, I will encourage them to get them, so they don't come in with a handicap. If there are some who have significant financial barriers (like one F2F guy who had to constantly borrow rulebooks and stuff in the last game) then I will buy the relevant materials from ADB and have them ship it to the player in question. Problem solved. Everybody wins.
(Heck, all I have to do is do more demos [which I like doing] and ADB says I get $5 off my next purchase, which can help a cash strapped player get that fast dreadnought he needs to whup those pesky Andromedans.)

Anyway, that's a long answer to basically say, "I get it now. Thanks for delineating the boundaries."

By Gregg Dieckhaus (Gdieck) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 03:36 pm: Edit

Personally I think SFBOL should be like other "Freemium" games. You should have to buy ssd packs to get and use non tournament ships. (For example if someone buys Klingon ships, but not Lyran, they could play against a lyran, but not control any lyran ships)

Much like MTG:Online. Even if you own the cards, you still have to buy stuff online.

Gregg

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 04:00 pm: Edit

Paul did you see the functionality requests in this thread concerning drn racks ?:)

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Justin,
Yeah. They were getting buried among dust up. The two I see are:

1) List the last launch of a drn launcher in the IA window.
2) Clear the destroyed rack of drones in expendables.

#2 could be problematic due to the issue with damaging the wrong rack. The solutions to that issue are:

1) Prompt the player after all of the damage is done and ask if they want to clear the drone rack.
2) Leave it as is and have players use the "Clear Rack" button.

By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Paul Franz:
One drone modification I would like for the tournament ships is for the Klingon. Currently you can tell what rack the drones are launched from, thus easily telling when a type VI is launched. Drone launches from the Klingon are not supposed to denote what rack they came from. Any chance this could be fixed?

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Stephen,
Actually it is a minor change. There is a checkbox in the "Activity" window when you select "Launch Drones". It is "Include Launcher/Rack". That needs to be uncheck. Also, something that people might not be aware of, but the numbers for the drones are designated by the order that you click on the "Launch" checkbox.

By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Ah, thanks Paul. Did not know that and have never seen it used by any of my opponents.

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Friday, May 02, 2014 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Paul,
Maybe simpler, you can just make the rack line in Expendables turn red when destroyed like it is in Weapon Status.
Failing that I could clear the rack manually which is something I never thought of...

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, May 03, 2014 - 11:51 am: Edit

Andrew,
That is what I am working on now.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, May 04, 2014 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Thank you Paul, that small piece of info will help tons in fleet actions. (the last drn launched by each drn rack in the IA window) I have been playing the Klings as you know and I am loving it, but the large amounts of drns are hard to keep track of, especially when staggering launches.

By Andrew J Koch (Droid) on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 07:12 am: Edit

Much appreciated Paul.

By Pete DiMitri (Petercool) on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 11:11 am: Edit

Hi Paul,

I've been trying to load plasma Fs in various Romulan fighters, and I keep getting the message that the plasma is too big to fit (yes, these are plasma F armed fighters).

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Pete,
Found the issue. And I will release a fix in the next update.

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:21 pm: Edit

I'd vote against auto-clearing ... Or at least a lot of testing
A) I tend to take the damage, realize halfway through I don't know my rack status and just pick one arbitrarily and adjust after the damage is done.
B) there are drone rack-like things that I imagine share code that don't lose their drones when the rack is blown, like TMs.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 10:36 am: Edit

B) ... And Death Bolts

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