Several times over the last few years, someone has suggested something regarding the SFB Tactics Manual. The various suggestions include:

IDEA ONE: an advanced tactics manual, not duplicating the existing material, but covering whatever it doesn't.

IDEA TWO: a revised/expanded tactics manual, adding new weapons, probably alpha octant only.

IDEA THREE: a supplement to the tactics manual, basically a second volume, adding a lot of material from Captain's Log and some entirely new essays.

Last night at the Design Staff Dinner, we were kicking the idea around. It was noted that....
1. The existing manual is still 99% valid.
2. Only a couple of new Alpha weapons have been added (Sabot, type-H drone) but there aren't many articles for those. This might go into an advanced manual, a revised/expanded manual, or a supplement.
3. We could always gather up the already printed victory, battlegroup, and term paper materials and call that the Supplement.
4. Not much exists in the way of tactics for non-alpha areas. That could be part of a supplement or advanced manual but probably not a revision of the original.

Maybe all of that is enough for a book, maybe it's a book nobody would buy.

anyway....

This topic is a gathering place for comments, reminders, suggestions, and anything else about what might be in such a book or what such a product might look like.

DO NOT expect anything to be done in the next year.

DO NOT expect this to become the focus of SPP (anytime soon) and don't expect real time answers.

DO make helpful suggestions and comments that, when SPP reads them a year from now, might put him on a path toward a product you would buy.

By Ken Rotar (Sir_Krotar) on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 01:06 pm: Edit

I really like idea of combining published primers, victory articles, battle groups, and term papers into a supplemental book. Those materials are the primary things that I study even though it requires me to flip through numerous Captain Logs. They are far more helpful for me than the current Tactics Manual.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 02:59 pm: Edit

That isn't idea #3; it's the third category on a list of material that might go into some kind of product. If something comes of this, it might include any or all of the four categories. I did some edits to keep the conversation from becoming confusing with two different idea #3s.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Not interested and wouldn't buy it.

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 04:40 pm: Edit

I like idea three the best.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 04:51 pm: Edit

To answer the non-Alpha part, things in the Omega Octant are to a large extent covered by the 2011 Omega Master Rulebook, where a large number of tactical primers and Term Papers covering those empires have been collected already.

The Lesser Magellanic Cloud is only gradually expanding its range of in-print tactical primers (to include the Eneen primer in CL48), while a number of LMC Term Papers have popped up now and then after Module C5's publication.

Each of the current playtest empires in the Triangulum Galaxy have a tactical primer in print, though they are quite liable to be substantially revised in the event of a formally-published module for M33. Also, since they are playtest factions, Term Papers are not permitted for any of them just yet.


For what it's worth, it may be that the best option for Omega is to wait until the next revision of the OMRB is due (whenever that may be), and simply putting any more recent tactical material for that setting in there.

The LMC could perhaps be served by adding their own tactical material to a would-be "Module C5R", unless there was ever to be an "LMC Master Rulebook" someday.

And the Triangulum tactical material may need to wait for the time being, to be decided upon if/when we ever see M33 formally brought into SFB.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 05:51 pm: Edit

well i would buy a book with the term papers and battle groups. They are all full of useful tactics for old timers and newbies. Also it would let others see what term papers have been written and realize oh what the do not have one on this?
As Sir Krotar i do look in old captains logs and elsewhere to read them.

By Michael Kenyon (Mikek) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 12:29 pm: Edit

I wouldn't buy a book that only contained material from the CLs ... cause I have all of the CLs and do regularly read through them. I don't mind if some of the material is from there, but if that's all the book is, I'm not going to order it.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 12:36 pm: Edit

I basically agree with Michael Kenyon. I wouldn't be much interested in a book that was nothing but reprints of previously published materials. But I could definitely see myself buying one that had some reprints but also had significant new material.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 03:12 pm: Edit

I cannot imagine there being enough new material needed to call it significant. But tell me what new material is needed.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 05:43 pm: Edit

I had originally decided not to comment on this topic, but I changed my mind. I always like to think Outside Of The Box and I know there will be those who will disagree with me because of that. But if even a tiny bit of good comes from this, then it was worth the time it took to write it.

We are talking about a book about Tactics. Star Fleet Battles is a Tactical Wargame! To me (IMO), that means that Volumes and Volumes of materal can be written regarding Tactics.


First, in order to successful sell an SFB Book about Tactics, it is important to look at things from an SFB Buyer's point of view. These are all my own opinions:

1) The Tactics Book needs to provide Value (Use) to the Buyer. Here are some examples of Value influencing the decision to buy the book:

a) I see Omega Tactics, but we don't play Omega. I don't want to pay for that stuff.
b) I was looking for Omega Tactics, but there are none in this book. I don't want it.
c) There are some articles on Plotted Movement, but our group never uses that Rule.
d) I was looking for X Tactics, but I don't see them in this book.
e) I already know all these Tactics, so I don't need this book.

2) People don't want to pay for stuff they already have. If you collect Captain Logs #1-#20 into a Mega Captain's Log, then sure you will have a few buyers who like all the material (they already have) in one place. But what if the Mega Captain's Log included the "10 Lost Captain's Logs that were Never Printed"? I believe this new material would increase the amount of Buyers.

3) The Tactics Book should "Broaden The Mind". You want the reader to think, "I hadn't thought of that" or "I didn't know that could be done."

4) The Tactics Book should be written by Reliable (Respected) Sources. If the articles are written by Sam Godrick and Roger Ringo, would you Buy the Tactics Book? What if it were written by Scott Moellmer, Bill Schoeller, or Paul Scott?

5) A Buyer looking at the Tactics Book is looking to Learn. So the Goal of the Tactics Book should be to Teach.

6) Price is always a factor for a Buyer

7) In today's age, it is important to consider if a Buyer is more interested in an Ebook, a Printed Book, or Both.


Now what can be in this Second Tactics Book? Almost an Infinite Amount of Material (IMO).


Definition of Tactics: An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.


1) You have every SFB empire ever published that can have its own tactics. For example, Federation Tactics.

2) You have tactics for every SFB empire vs every other SFB empire. For example, Gorn vs Tholian Tactics.

3) You have tactics for every SFB weapon/device. Now that is A LOT of tactics.

4) You have tactics for every SFB Scenario ever printed. That is A Lot of tactics.

5) You have Tournament Tactics.

6) You have Fleet Tactics. This would be individual Fleet Tactics, like Federation Fleet Tactics.

7) You have Fleet vs Fleet Tactics. An example would be Federation Fleet vs Klingon Fleet Tactics.

8) You have Fighter Tactics.

9) You have PF Tactics.

10) You have X-Technology Tactics.

11) You have Early Years Tactics.

12) You have Stages Tactics (Opening/Midgame/Endgame).

13) You have Hypothetical Situations Tactics. An example would be: A Freighter is disabled in an Asteroid Field, what is the best way to Rescue it?

14) You have Simulator Tactics.

15) You have Planetary/Environment Tactics.

16) You have Base Station/Starbase Tactics.

17) You have EW Tactics (Individual and Fleet)

18) You have Movement Tactics (Plotted, Fleet Movement, High Energy Turns, Tactical Maneuvers, etc.)

19) You have Closed Map Tactics.

20) You have Open Map Tactics.

21-1000) This List can go On and On and On......


My Other Thoughts on the Second Tactics Book (These are My Opinions and others will disagree):

1) Omega, Magellanic, Alpha, and Whatever should Not be separated when it comes to Tactics. What is the purpose of the Ymatrians if not to run them against the Klingons to see how they do? Yes, you could say that the Ymatrians should be fighting the Drex and the Void separates the Ymatrians from ever fighting the Klingons. But when SFB players come together to have fun and see what empire they want to fight against what empire, they might choose something that "breaks the rules" or is not "historically accurate". Don't these SFB groups need Tactics too? Aren't they also Potential Buyers of the Second Tactics Book?

2) The Approach of books about Tactics should be treated like the Approach of books about Chess. What are Chess books like? They give you Hypothetical Situations. They teach you Basic and Advanced Strategies. They teach you about the Beginning of the game (Opening), the Middle of the game (Midgame), and the End of the game (Endgame). They teach you powerful formations. They teach you how to assess what your tactical knowledge currently is, how to grow your tactical knowledge, and how to test that tactical knowledge at every point.

a) Where is the SFB Tactics book that says if your Federation CA is 3/4 Blown up with 4 Shields missing, "This" is what you should do? This is the Endgame.

b) Where is the SFB Tactics book that talks about what is the strongest Romulan Fleet you can put together from all the Romulan ships available? This could be the powerful formations of Chess.

c) Where are the SFB Tutorials that take a beginner that knows no tactics, and takes him step by step to advanced tactical knowledge, and tests/rates him at every stage?

3) Tournament Tactics (updated to today) should be included in the Tactics Book. Looking through my stuff, I found Module D2 from 1992. There really isn't anything else (that I know of) that compiles Current Tournament Tactics in a single place. You already know there are going to buyers for this book.

4) I think players want to see Tactics on Vudar, Jindarian, Paravian, Carnivon, Seltorian, and (later) Peladine, Borak, and Nicozian. These should be included, both with Tactics for each Empire and with Tactics for Empire vs Other Empire.

5) Keep careful track of what has already been printed for Tactics. There is the Tactics Manual, Module D2, and all the Captains Logs. Be sure to keep Primers separate from Tactical Articles (to me they are different). You could say, "There is already a Ryn Primer." But are there Ryn Tactical Articles?

6) A book about Tactics does not have to be bound by History. Go ahead and create a Tactics book about Omega vs Alpha. Publish how the ISC would counter the Hydrans. But I would suggest to do it in the manner that I recommend at the end of this post.

6) Proactively seek to get articles written from the experts that have the experience. Talk to them about you want and if necessary, pay them or reward them. There is simply too much tactical material for SPP/SVC to write from scratch, given what is already on their plates. So other sources are needed.


So what is my Best Suggestion for all of this? Strangely, the best thing I can come up with is a New Product Line. A series of short books or pamphlets that address specific areas of Tactics. This way, you make sure that if people don't want Omega Tactics, they don't have to buy Omega Tactics. If people Do want Omega Tactics, then they get Omega Tactics. An advanced player is not going to want to buy a book with tactical lessons for a beginner. But if there was a separate tactical book for the beginner, it might result in some sales. Having a line of short books/pamphlets allows you to publish one by one, according to your own schedule, according to what articles have been completed and which articles are still in progress. It is the tactical nature of Star Fleet Battles that keeps wargamers intrigued, so I believe books on Tactics are important.

In conclusion, I realize that the Second Tactics Manual will probably end up to be a collection of published primers, victory articles, battle groups, and term papers, with some new stuff added and new artwork. But maybe there is some hope that some of the information that I have written above might influence the Second Tactics Manual in a meaningful way.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 05:51 pm: Edit

I would add that, if written and presented the right way, this could be a product that might interest people who have never heard of SFB. But it would have to be written a little differently than other SFB products to achieve that goal. But if successful, it might appeal to the same types of people who collect blueprints of ST ships and stuff like that.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 08:24 pm: Edit

I cannot see a tactics book being of any use in attracting non-SFU customers. I just don't see a way to do it, or a point. We have other (better) ways to do that (e.g., fiction).

Note to Norman: It seems you're unaware that most of your list was already published in the SFB Tactics Manual. I will also note that few will read a post as long as yours and it kind of re-states things everybody already knows.

Here's a thought abut "new" material (i.e. never before published). I don't mind doing it and we do a lot of it. However, I really cannot identify more than 20 pages of tactics that need an article that doesn't have one (Sabots, type-H drones, a few of the obscure non-alpha empires). With no idea what else to create, my propensity is to go create something that we can create. Another consideration is that if somebody stumbles upon a compellation of published material that would find a market, it's so easy for us to do such a book that it would easily get slipped into the schedule. Teiling us to go create 144 new pages of anything may mean we create whatever thing we think will sell best, and I don't think (but I could be wrong) that a 144 pages of new SFB tactics can be found, or are needed, or would sell as many copies as a new RPG book.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Yes, it doesn't really seem right for the SFU because to do it you would have to speak in more general terms that SFB players might find too vague to be truly useful. That is the problem I see with it.

I am thinking of a tactics manual that would seem like it went along with the blueprints or the or the old Franz Joseph Manual you partially based SFB on. If it was written like a textbook cadets at SF Acadamy might read in their first year. But, like I said, the problem them becomes that it may be too vague to be useful to SFB players.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Well, Marc, at least I have a better idea what you're trying to define. You're right. That would not sell to existing SFB customers. Would it sell to new outside people including non-gamers? Is there a practicable way to find those people and tell them that this "fun to read book" exists? I'm also thinking that somebody outside the ADB office should write it.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Thanks for reading my post, SVC. Sorry if it was excessively long.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 08:40 pm: Edit

1) You have every SFB empire ever published that can have its own tactics. For example, Federation Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

2) You have tactics for every SFB empire vs every other SFB empire. For example, Gorn vs Tholian Tactics. TOO SPECIALIZED, COVERED IN GENERAL BY TACTICS MANUAL.

3) You have tactics for every SFB weapon/device. Now that is A LOT of tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

4) You have tactics for every SFB Scenario ever printed. That is A Lot of tactics. NOBODY WANTS THEM. WE TRIED THAT.

5) You have Tournament Tactics. ALREADY PUBISHED.

6) You have Fleet Tactics. This would be individual Fleet Tactics, like Federation Fleet Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

7) You have Fleet vs Fleet Tactics. An example would be Federation Fleet vs Klingon Fleet Tactics. THAT IS CALLED BATTLE GROUPS. ALREADY PUBLISHED.

8) You have Fighter Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

9) You have PF Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

10) You have X-Technology Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

11) You have Early Years Tactics. WE HAVE DONE SOME OF THIS, NOT MUCH INTEREST IN MORE.

12) You have Stages Tactics (Opening/Midgame/Endgame). TOO ESOTERIC.

13) You have Hypothetical Situations Tactics. An example would be: A Freighter is disabled in an Asteroid Field, what is the best way to Rescue it? TOO SPECIALIZED.

14) You have Simulator Tactics. NOBODY WANTED THEM.

15) You have Planetary/Environment Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

16) You have Base Station/Starbase Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

17) You have EW Tactics (Individual and Fleet) IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

18) You have Movement Tactics (Plotted, Fleet Movement, High Energy Turns, Tactical Maneuvers, etc.) IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

19) You have Closed Map Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

20) You have Open Map Tactics. IN THE TACTICS MANUAL ALREADY.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Yes, if it doesn't work for both audiences it doesn't really work, and it doesn't really work for the SFB audience after having thought about it. It wouldn't be specific enough to serve as an SFB tactics manual.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 10:58 pm: Edit

SVC: I'm sorry if I offended you. I see now that I should never have written my post. I apologize.

If you want to delete my entire entry (and all related entries), please feel free to. If I had the appropriate Admin rights, I would do it myself.

Its strange, when I was writing the post, in the back of my mind, I wanted you to be proud of me. I wanted to contribute and help. Now I see my post had the opposite effect.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 11:18 pm: Edit

Wrong Norman, you have nothing to apologize for, nothing to regret, did not offend me, did nothing wrong, and did impress me. The point was that we were both trying to identify needed articles. You just seemed not to know all that had gone before.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 07:58 am: Edit

Marc: it doesn't have to sell to both. I am jut trying to figure out how to reach the non-SFU market. If we just took the existing SFB tactics manual or the new FC one and rewrote it to non game terms and marketed it as the STAR FLEET OFFICER'S TACTICS MANUAL we'd sell them to Trekkers IF we can find a way to reach the market.

Assuming my lawyer says we can float it past the license, since technically we just print game books.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 08:20 am: Edit

Or how about good old fashioned wargamers?

I will be the first to admit that I don't know how to "reach" those people in terms of marketing and persuasion, but couldn't they be a potential market?

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 08:24 am: Edit

By the way, when I said I wouldn't be interested and wouldn't buy it, it was because I made the erroneous ASSumption that it would be all about Tournaments, which I rarely participate in.

I agree that there is a LOT in the tactics manual already. How about how to set up minefields? I don't recall seeing that.
A minefield contest...best minefields from the Feds, Klingons, etc., using the standard packages.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 09:17 am: Edit

Just my $0.02 worth, but I think a volume 2 tactics manual should concentrate on tactics for everything that was published after the original tactcis manual was released.

That would include GW carnivons and paravians.
Same with new technology and new ships and (where necessary) fighters and things like romulan cloaked decoys.

There should be sections for Federation and Empire tactics, Federation Commander (where things are significantly different than in SFBs), and GURPs PD.

There has been years of new tactics published in captains logs, the tough job is going to be picking and choosing what constitutes really new ideas from rehash.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 11:48 am: Edit

Ok, we're starting to see some assembly of ideas for new/needed alpha sector tactics.

1. Plasma sabot
2. type-H drone
3. electronic plasma distraction things
4. cloaked decoys
5. Carnivons and their weapons.
6. Paravians and their weapons.
7. minefields
8. Monsters

Even if that's nowhere near enough for a book, it's a list of things to be written for captain's log.