I think I'd like to see X2 fighters move speed 30 with no penalty for EM, excess pods, green pilot, etc. No double damage rule either. I'd like to see X2 fighters made available for XP carriers.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Tos, that sounds a lot like a Megafighter from J2

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:28 pm: Edit

Pretty much, but further improved. In Y210 the races should not be happy about losing an X2 ship.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 11:46 pm: Edit

That's not a fighter. That's a frigate.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 02:58 am: Edit

It might be interesting to borrlow a page from the Hiver fighters and allow them a limited form of EA

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Though this is not an attrition unit per say...

Y205 Second Generation Advanced Administrative Shuttle (SA2).
This is the Advanced Admin. from Module J2. (Hit Points=8, Speed=8) but has a small shield system installed (among a few other upgrades).
\b(SHIELD OPPERATION)
The first two hits applied to the SA2 are checked against the shield and do not count towards crippled or non-crippled status. This shield can be repaired with a single deck crew action.
HET CAPABLE
The SA2 is capable of performing an HET once per turn. It can use this HET to break free of tractor beams.
BOOSTED MODE
The SA2 can use a boost mode to gain speed. This spends all available fuel. The speed is increased by 50% (speed 12) for 32 impulses. After which the shuttle can move at a maximum speed of 1. There is no "Booster Pack", it is a function of the engine design (or rather a quirk). Note: A SA2 can still be "Death Dragged" at speed 16+, boosted or not.
SHUTTLE ENGINE REPAIR
Full speed can be regained by repairing the shuttle using two deck crew actions. A shuttle that is "Run Out" is noted as such by marking "RO" in the notes column for that shuttle on the SSD.
SEEKING SHUTTLES RESTRICTIONS
Seeking shuttles can only use the boosted mode from the moment of launch. Manned shuttles could launch boosted but their mission would be...short.
ESCAPE
Launching boosted increases the chance of escape by one. After the shuttle has run out it's boosted mode it may use sub-light evasion to disengage. A "Run-out" shuttle may still land on planets.

SA2 Specifications: HP=8+2, Spd=8 (12 boosted) Arm= 1x Ph-3 360°(Ph-6 on X2?).

I plan on submitting this.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Quoth Tos,

"I'd give the X2 [hydran] fighter 4 fusion charges all capable of range 10. Plus one range 10 Hellbore. Plus a Gat FA and a Gat RX. Double weight, speed 30, lots of free EW, damage 18-20.

Try this: 4 fusion charges capable of 10, but each set of two holding tubes is on a module that can be changed out using 32 impulses of deck crew time for a hellbore module. The modules also take a 32-impulse DC action to load but can be loaded separately from the fighter like drone ready racks. Keep it single-space and give it a FX P-7 instead of a P-G. Max EW of 10+10, carriers get a lending range of 15, damage still at 18-20 (we can say it's shielded or SIFed). speed 30, packs drive it to 40 with the traditional fragility disadvantage that goes with packs.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Geesh. I started this topic and forgot that it existed. Thanks for reposting and replying in the correct spot.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 07:51 pm: Edit

New Fed. X2 Fighter.

XP-38 Lightning.

This is a general superiority/ assault fighter. Taking lessons from previous experience including the F-15, the A-10 breed, and the F-111, this fighter was like nothing ever seen before. The center weapon mount contained a "snap-on" weapon pod that could either be a Ph-G or a photon charge. The plethora of additional weapons made this fighter a serious threat to any opposition. This fighter already incorporated the Mega-fighter enhancements as thus had great speed and durability. All Lightnings were two seaters able to take control of other drones launched from it's squadron. The XP-38 incorporated a mobile escape pod capable of speed one and sub-light evasion.

XP-38
Speed	Phaser	Drones	Damage	Special	BPV	Year	DFR.
30	2xP6-FX+1xP6RX	6xType7 + 2xType9	16 + 4(shield)	4 special rail (2xType8)	22	Y208	3

The shield is an exchangable pod that requires one deck crew action to replace. Damage to a shuttle shield does not contribute to crippled status. Carriers would be alloted one extra SSPod for each XP-38. Spent pods can be repaired one point for one deck crew action. Only one DC can opperate on a single SSPod at a time. Exception (some Legendary Officers can repair two points per action). SSPods are not eligable for ship type repairs (e.g. CDR, EDR etc) X-Admins have a two point SSPod (see above post).
The center weapons mount can either be a Ph-G (FA) or a Photon (FA) using the standard rules for such things. If the X2 rule have an extended warhead level standard (i.e. 12 point standards) the the Photon Pod could utilize such a torpeedo if the ships pays the power to load it. This Lightning had one EW pod built in and allowances for two extra pods. There was also a chaff mount for four chaff packs.

S.A.F.E. (Semi-Autonomous Fighter Enhancement). This is a part computer controlled/ part remote controlled system that allowed the fighters it was installed on to opperate without a pilot beyond 15 hexes. Put simply, the computer opperated the fighter for the mission but the pilots sent opperational commands (in short coded bursts). Use(J15.0) except as noted herein. S.A.F.E. controlled fighters must use plotted movement every 1/2 turn (during EA and the impulse activity segment of impulse 16). The maximum range of a S.A.F.E. controlled fighter is 35 hexes. (Note: If the fighter is within 15 hexes of the carrier then it uses only (J15.0).

Special Mounts. Special Mounts allowed for multiple ADDs or DF drones to be mounted on a special rail. It takes one Deck Crew action to place one SMount on one special rail. The new mount is then loaded with its appropreate ordinance. The cost is 0.5 BPV each. It is not lost during combat and can be removed and stored for future use.

SRM (Special RALAD Mount): This is a special mount to fit on special rails that could hold three ADDs. Each could fire all ADDs at once or on different impulses, at the same or different targets. It cannot mount mount Type9 drones.

SDDM (Special Dogfight Drone Mount): Similar to the SRM this mounted two Type 9 drones to a special rail.

By Aaron Gimblet (Marcus) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 04:43 am: Edit

Loren, it had been my understanding that we wanted to get away from everythign that was wrong with SFB 0X in 2X... I have a mental image of an ADD armed, Photon-flinging 12-drone-launching fighter. I have a mental image of a carrier deckload of them firing drones. I have a mental image of my hair, growing grey, as we try to use the things on a huge mapboard full of drones and fighters.

Ive played the CVA duels on Tabletop, once, and sworn never to do it again. I agree that thats EXACTLY the 2X fighter every Fed player would want, but is it good for the game?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 08:51 am: Edit

Bravo Aaron!

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 09:46 am: Edit

Aaron,

I can agree with the sentiment - I hate carriers, myself - but I know that there are lots of players out there that won't consider X2 complete without X2 fighters. There's a big market in the SFB community for carrier stuff, as shown by the high sales volume for J2. So it'll have to be developed, and I think Loren's is a good start (though speed 30 is a bit high, IMHO.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 12:35 pm: Edit

My intention is to creat a multi-roll fighter based on the maga-fighter platform. So the Feds produce this one fighter and perhaps a planetary defense fighter. Speed thirty is based on speed 15 x 2 (mega-fighter enhancement). The frame rated at 15 so it could still be death dragged at 30. I tryed not to give it everything. And ya, it's just a start.

Got inspired by the WWII P-38.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 02:27 pm: Edit

An alternative would be a smaller, throw-away fighter that would be radio-controlled rather than even having a Pilot. They would be there for the same reason the Klingons use their drones--to soak up firepower.

Suppose each one took 2 control channels to run (but could in turn control drones based on the fighter rules) A carrier wuld not be able to control more than 6. it would need its escorts to control all of them, changing the dynamic a little and using up control channels taking the edge off the mass-drone-yuk side of carrier combat.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Mike, some of SFB sales are people who simply want to "complete their sets", rather than actually playing with the stuff.

At least, that's what the only guy in our group who bought J2 said when I asked him why he bought it.

I personally don't want drone-launching fighters anywhere near X2. I'd rather see an X2J module for all the X2 fighters rather than fighters and carriers cluttering up the X2 module.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 03:22 pm: Edit

From October 2002:

---

Quote:

J2 has broken into the top 5. That was very fast.

Captain's Log #23: 231
Captain's Log #24: 135
Federation CA (Zocchi Plastic): 118
Module J2: Advanced Fighters: 92
Module E2: Triangulum Galaxy: 92

---

---

Quote:

Sales Figures as of 21 Jan.

Captain's Log #23: 253
Captain's Log #24: 164
Module J2: Advanced Fighters: 139
Federation CA (Zocchi Plastic): 124
Captain's Log #25: 122

---

---

Quote:

Captain's Log #23: 259
Captain's Log #24: 176
Module J2: Advanced Fighters: 152
Captain's Log #25: 145
J2 Playtest Counters for F&E: 134

---

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 04:01 pm: Edit

152 copies nationwide?

Does this include copies sold in stores, or just from the web site?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 05:07 pm: Edit

I can see an X2J module
That is dependent on there being a Module XJ, I suppose...

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 05:42 pm: Edit

I dunno about that so much as there just being some detail in X2 about 2X fighters...sort of like the Stinger X in X1.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 05:44 pm: Edit

If the Hydrans are the only race that gets X2 fighters, that's one thing.

If other races get them, that's something else.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 06:07 pm: Edit

For the record I agree that fighters (excepting Hydrans) should be in their own module. THere will be so much to fill the X2 module already. I never said otherwise.

X1 shouldn't have a J module. This should be an era where fighters just couldn't keep up. But then advances bring them back for X2.

That's why I put the intro date a Y208 (could be even 210). Fighters in this era (X2) would be for raids, defense of fix positions. But there would be no avoiding space duels. Thus the true multi-role function of the fighter I proposed. One main line fighter and one planetary defense fighter (probably just F-16CM with the shield pod as an example for the Feds)for each race. Maybe two carrier types as well. The Heavy Carrier (based on the XCC with 12 fighters) and the Strike (based on the XCL with 8 fighters). Escorts would be main line XDDs. No special design needed there except the shuttle bays would have ready racks (and there in lies the economy of the proposal).

John Trauger: What you propose is an interesting alternative and is a worth while consideration but I would pose these things for consideration. Right now our Submarine designers are working an a mini-remote attack sub that would make up most of the front end of a new class of Sub. What you propose is something like that. Carriers wouldn't need escorts. The reason is that if these fighters are expendable without pilots, then the carrier can just leave if the need is great. Currently the loss of the carrier means the loss of the fighters and the fleet for the most part. Thus the escorts protect the carrier at all costs. The fighters must have somewhere to land. That paradigm no longer holds true with your proposal. So, in short, you don't need escorts with your proposal. I would suggest that this becomes a more utility type of design attaching to mech.-links perhaps and only be a varriant of a standard class rather than proposing full carriers. Put Three on a Cruiser like the Subs from above. I wish I could recall the name of the project.

How interesting it would be to have one side with a Carrier full of XP-38s against a fleet employing your proposal. Perhaps the two could co-exsist.

I have other ideas for each race but this (XP-38) is the quitesential fighter of the lot.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 07:42 pm: Edit

Why develope a fighter that is almost at the maximum end of the performance envelope?

Why stop at the P38? (If memory serves, it was developed in the late 1930's and was STILL a competitive design at the end of the war.

This is the "trap" SFB got into by designing the F14 first and so low in performance that there was little room for meaningful designs with different performance characteristics.

May I suggest that you start from the bottow of the performance envelope and work to improve the design gradually in definite steps just as happened in the real world. there were many designs that were tried and failed before the P51 and the ME262 arrived on the scene.

Why not start with the P35 or P36 which had respectible performance in their time but little endurance and no armor, relatively little weaponry and let it progress thru the P39, P40 P47 designs for planet based fighters, and give a separate progression for the carrier designs for Wild cat, Hellcat, Corsair and Bearcat designs.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Loren,

That would be an interesting ship, An Area-control ship with a squadron each of P-38's and disposable RC fighters.

I envisioned the carrier as having limited shuttle space for repair and reloading the RC fighters and instead launching from drone-like racks. Maybe 4 shuttle boxes' space for the entire squadron and 6 2-space (shuttle space) racks for launching.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 09:17 pm: Edit

An F-14M is speed 30. It has similar performace characteristics.

John T.: Yes, that though is a new idea. I was thinking one against the other.

X2 is the culmination or lessons learned. Anything developed is the last SFU units. It is the top of the performance envolope. GW was the developement era for X2.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, March 03, 2003 - 04:34 pm: Edit

Loren,

Taking your like of through, I reassigned my idea to the Klingons.

NEW TECHNOLOGY

Subspace Controlled Fighter (SCF)

Klingon engineers managed to build a disposable remote-controlled fighter which had some aspects of a drone and some of a fighter.

All SCFs require 2 control channels to fully function. If both control channels are released, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, the SCF goes inert. If a SCF loses one control channel it may maneuver and fire DF weapons but may not launch or control seeking weapons.

When fully functioning, a SCF can launch and control drones as a fighter, passing the SCFs ECCM and and ECCM loaned the SCF by the ship that launched it.

A SCF is slightly smaller tan a normal admin shuttle. 2 normal shuttle boxes will hold 3 SCFs.

SCFs can be launched from a shuttle bay but are usually launched using a rack not unlike a drone rack. The rack will hold 2 SCFs and can launch 1 per turn.

The Klingons built 2 varieties of SCF on the same basic spaceframe. Despite this, one kind of SCF cannot be rebuilt as the other during gameplay.

The most-common variety of SCF was the SCF-S, built to superiority-fighter specifications. The SCF-S carried A total of 8 spaces of drones on two types of launch rail. 4 spaces were devoted to the "medium rail". Each rail could carry 1x 1-space drone and the outside rails could carry the one single space drone or 2x dogfight drones. 4 spaces were also devoted to the "heavy rails" heavy rails could calso carry 1x 1-space drone each. Unlike the medium rails, they could accomodate Type-III drones or 2 could be combined to carry a 2-space drone.

The SCF-S had two interior spaces for drone modules. These are not the general-use spaces in the Federation F-111 fighters and bombers. Only drone modules may be used.

Both SCFs could control up to 4 drones.

The SCF-D was designated as the attack variety. It used the same complement of medium drone rails but carried disruptor charges instead of heavy rails. The SCF-D could fire a maximum of 2 disruptor shots per turn. The SCF-D's disruptor range was 10, but like GW-era hydran fighters, it could fire a double change. The double-charge could achieve a max range of 22.