I have read one of the ideas for X2 is to group phasers and widen their arcs to FX and RX. I fear this will ruin tactical flavour as their will be less reason to maneuver if all my phasers can fire through 4 out of 6 firing arcs. I think this will make all the ships tactically generic and return us to the problems of the old supplement 2.

SVC DISAGREES AS THE HEAVY WEAPONS ARE STILL FA.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Oh bog.

Can't we just say "no" and move on? X2 was clearly broken.
what we need is some new idea and creativity, not mega-gaming retconing of the old X2 material.

SVC NOTES THAT NOBODY HAS EVEN TALKED ABOUT THE OLD X2 MATERIAL AND NOBODY AT ADB EVEN REMEMBERS IT.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 04:11 pm: Edit

DATA IN THIS POST WAS INCORRECT AND OBSOLETE

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 04:19 pm: Edit

The most recent official reference to Module X2 is in the news flash from Communiqué #109. (I was asking elsewhere what the formal development of X2 might mean for most of the threads in this sub-section of the BBS.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 02:04 pm: Edit

X2 remake? Did we ever do X2 before? (HUMOR)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Yeah, he is talking Supplement #2 Commander's Edition, I'm sure.

Maybe not technically a remake since this would be Captain's Edition but it's all we've had (even though no one played it anymore).

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Move along. Move along. Nothing to see here. /Patrick Duffy

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 03:12 pm: Edit

(HUMOR)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 04:06 pm: Edit

(HUMOR)

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 05:03 pm: Edit

How about them Xorks - please say (and mean) that they will be part of X2!

SVC SAYS NO, THEY WILL BE IN A C-MODULE OR F-MODULE A YEAR OR MORE AFTER X2.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 05:10 pm: Edit

[processed]

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 05:24 pm: Edit

True that. There's a ton of material needed for X2 if you include even just all the alpha powers. Xorks I think need their own C module treatment - but obviously that has to come after X2.

I've just always looked forward to the really late years stuff. I like to play with fancy toys, too.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 05:53 pm: Edit

The plus side for me is two-fold: not only does X2 open a new set of doors for SFB in and of itself, it provides fresh opportunities for the other SFU games (such as FC and F&E) to eventually delve into.

Which is one reason why I was glad to see the proposed tech level differences expressed in quarters rather than thirds - since the former may be easier to convert into Federation Commander!

(At least, FC likes to do things in even fractions - such as move cost rates, Energy Point sub-divisions, or even the number of movement sub-pulses per impulse. Plus it had been noted in an earlier Communiqué that the second-generation X-rules may be easier to write for FC than for SFB.)

Not that I'd expect FC to get around to X2 any time soon, but a little future-proofing can go a long way...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:25 pm: Edit

I seem to recall from the X-File discussions of 2004-2006 we worked out that there ought to be two eras of X2 much like the pre-GW and GW eras.

First there is the Trade Wars and X2 would be designed for that time. Of course, X2 designs would have roots in Andromedan war thinking but would be adjusted to fit the time in practice.

Then you'd have the Xorealien invasion where X2 would get super militarized to fight that war.

So I don't see how Xorkealiens would fit into the first X2 module except as the earliest raiders, which wouldn't have to necessarily totally match up to the regular Xork navy units. They could be as different as the various Romulan generations of ships.

Anyway, I guess this isn't the place for X2 discussions in detail.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:34 pm: Edit

Nick
FX/RX has been the plan for a very long time.
You may have a point. However THAT wasn't the problem with X2.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:35 pm: Edit

No one is talking about rejiggering supplement 2.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Xorkalians will be a later C-Module.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Not much of anything was locked in from 2004-6.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:57 pm: Edit

For what it's worth, I would much prefer there be no "plus refits" or other such refinements to X2-ships - at least not in the time period being discussed. (As to whatever may happen to any X2 hulls still in service post-Y225, that kind of thing currently lies beyond the scope of the Air Force data tapes.)

I don't mind the idea of certain "mission variants" coming to the fore in unexpected ways. In fact, I like how Module X1R highlighted the coming to the fore of X-carriers and X-PFTs (and in Star Fleet's case, the GSXs plus their GVX half-sibling) when they turned out to be the perfect RTN-hunters. That was a great way to turn the pre-concieved way of doing things on its head, and added a fine sense of character to that era.

Similarly, I would prefer the Alpha empires to be obliged to think in more creative ways about how to use the X2-ships as pioneered in Y205 against the Xorkaelian assault of Y210, rather than start refitting them to add more phasers or what have you.

-----

On another note, there was something about the proposed new balance between technology generations I was speculating over on the FC forum: might this help shift things decisively away from attrition units as viable game elements in the era of second-generation X-ships?

If most fighters and PFs were to be treated in the same manner as other TL 12 units (and if the Stinger-X were to be put in the same category as other X1 craft), the advantages which X2-ships seem set to offer (in terms of shooting them down while soaking up fire in the other direction) could put a renewed onus on "line" ships, rather than carriers and/or PFTs.

(Well, one could argue that the X1 era showed signs of going that way already, but that the aforementioned X-raiders got a fresh lease of life in the RTN-hunting game after Y195.)

If that were the case, I wonder if the Hydrans would be stubborn enough to develop a "Stinger-X2", or if even they would move away from the "casual carrier" concept they first adopted during their first period of exile in the Old Colonies?

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 10:37 pm: Edit

SVC, the problem I meant with the old X2 was the overloaded phasers and the resulting tactics of closing to range and then phaser-hosing, and the overall generic ships which all seemed to have the same number of systems per hull size.

I fear that changing all phasers to FX and RX will create a similar problem wherein ships will just reach a certain range and engage with only phasers because of the overlapping arcs and no need to maneuver as much.

I thought the concept cool when it was mentioned in the past. Perhaps improving some phasers on a ship while leaving others would be a good compromise. Playtesting will tell.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 01:58 pm: Edit

My understanding was that nothing was locked in from 2004-06. The evidence of the Trade War coming before the Xork invasion is from the time line and was what we used to define that X2 would not be the place for the Xorks. I guess I didn't need to bring up the old discussions to point that out.
====================
If X2 is to have FX/RX style phaser systems then perhaps one way to induce some maneuver might be to go with FH/RH and maybe some LS/RS. Heck, that might really produce a lot of attention to maneuver to get targets on the split hexes (and for targets to avoid).

oooh, I just had an idea about shield switching. I'll post it in the X-Files.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 06:13 pm: Edit

Loren,

Ya, you're correct. I saw X2 and emotionally reacted thinking he meant Supplement #2.

Sorry, viscerial reaction.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 - 11:18 am: Edit

What is the political climate of the X2 era?
Would there have been some collusion going on with weapons development between empires during the Andromedan Invasion? That might give a good nudge to some really advanced developments happening really quickly.

Maybe the speed 31 tactical warp barrier is overcome?
Addition of a small, but rotating shield, like the Juggernaught?
Ships should not only be faster and stronger, but maybe include new technology that was too "ridiculous" for GW level play?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 - 11:55 am: Edit

Oh oh... like a plasmatic disruptor phaser?


Long debate of yesteryear and SVC concluded that X2 must play with GW and X1 tech with BPV as the primary balancer. I think that achieving that will be challenge #1. Nope. Not an easy task that.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 - 12:17 pm: Edit

I'm dubious about allowing X2 ships to travel faster than speed-31. I think there's a big risk that allowing this would break the connection between X2 and earlier technologies and prevent (as Loren alludes to in his previous email) X2 from being compatible. I'm not terribly interested in a "stand alone" X2 game that is incompatible with X1 and GW technology.