Gary, we often do such things and don't need to worry about them now.

By Mark Steven Hoyle (Markshoyle) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 07:51 pm: Edit

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tholians aren't instrumental in the Federation's technology rise.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Leave a chain laying around, and surely some knucklehead's gonna yank it...

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 08:24 pm: Edit

Actually there really is not a technological reason why we can not have X2 Tholians I mean they have a Dyson Sphere after all. Maybe they finally found a way to open up the internal Shipyards they already have. Or heck a second wrecked Nest ship is found and turned over to the Tholians who found it easier to reprogram and use as a new ship yard.

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Now fodder for thought. Could we see something like the Combined System Box from FedCom Fleet Scale maybe used here? A box that could be a Tractor or a Transporter each turn. What about A few Heavy War Destroyer type option blocks to allow a little mission tailoring to take place?

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 08:40 pm: Edit

With the Tholians being my favourite empire I want Tholian 2X.

Why leave out a certain empire and turn away some players? Even the Andros got conjectural x-ships.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 08:48 pm: Edit

I think that by the time X2 rolls around the Tholians will be very well caught up on technical savvy. They did, after all, keep up with X1.

Now, I do find it reasonable that perhaps some of their older technologies might not gain so much but by Y205 there is a lot of young and older engineers who have been studying much longer than most humans ever get a chance. In the early days of the Holdfast they certainly lacked a strong engineering corps. SPP has said, I'm pretty sure SVC agreed, and I know I agreed, that Tholians ships can't have Legendary Engineers because anyone who gets that good goes back to the Sphere and works/teaches there (where they are both safer and can do the most good).

Indeed, X2 will be a high priority for the Holdfast as their survival is at stake. They know the reason they have survived this long is because of technical superiority and with no X2... they WILL see themselves as doomed.

IMHO

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Realistically, the Tholians will likely be able take enough advantage of their neighbors research to keep up with the non-Tholian tech. The big questions are,
1) Can Web be further improved?
2) If "yes", is it limited to laid web, or can cast web be improved as well?

I think limiting it to lain web would likely be best, this continues to give them a reason to stay home, but keeps them from being over run.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 09:34 pm: Edit

The early Holdfast monograph in Module Y3 notes that the main reason why the Holdfast had no legendary engineers on their ships prior to Y180 was due to them drafting any engineering students who showed signs of promise into service of the century-long effort to maintain and rebuild the containment system for the sphere's artificial sun (a system which had been badly damaged during the sphere's ill-fated crossing through the Galactic Energy Barrier back in Y79).

That said, this still leaves a good 25 years' worth of more "normal" levels of research and developnent to be undertaken prior to the onset of X2-tech; not counting any outside contributions added by the science officers and engineers who arrived among the ships of the 312th, or perhaps from those aboard the Sojourner upon that ship's later arrival to Holdfast space.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 09:48 pm: Edit

I would think that web would see the least improvement but maybe a little. Casting might get a little better due to improvements not directly to the web but to other systems, such as targeting systems.
They might be able to make it smaller.

They might also be the only ones to continue use of gun boats so they could see some sort of improvement there. (And a wide spread casual deployment.)

One idea I've had is that in the X2 era they have a smallish space bourn shipyard that enables them to build a sort of Rear Hull and combine that with PC style forward hulls. But this might actually be a cross of engineering between what they know of their own Neo-style hulls and Klingon design made into something new. The point would be something that can accommodate X2 engines. I don't think the old tri-wedge hulls will accommodate much more than what was managed with X1. It's a very small space.

I do think they would continue to use the sphere ship building facilities in some manner.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 12:56 am: Edit

X2 Tholians ... I think the posts here show it's possible. They kept up with X1.

FC system box ... An artifice of the fleet scale system and not a real piece of technology you can use. So... No.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 04:43 pm: Edit

Tractor N (Three hex range) came into service for most empires Y140-145. Five hex range Transporters came into service Y140. Apparently they have not improved any up to Y205. Should they have improved with X1 tech @Y180? Can they improve after Y205 with X2 Tech? Do they need to improve? Tactically would it help or hurt the game?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 06:01 pm: Edit

I want mini one hex tractors that can bang SC6 things together. And we all know what happens when one drone strikes another.


Gatling tractor!

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Now there is an interesting thought, a tractor that can hold multiple small objects at close range.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 06:59 pm: Edit

I personally would be tempted to have X2 Tholians do something "new" for X2 tech, rather than keep their traditional tech mix. Something like:

1) Recover the particle cannon, whether through data recovery or redevelopment.

2) Exclusively use photon torpedoes instead of disruptors, as it was easier to buy the tech from the Federation than to develop-themselves/steal-from-Klingons X2 disruptor tech.

3) Buy X2 on a platter from the Romulans (who need rebuilding money after the series of General War/Remus/Civil War/Andromedan Conquest disasters), including plasma (maybe lots and lots of Ls, instead of anything bigger . . .).

But on the other hand, that might upset fans of the disruptor Tholians.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 07:24 pm: Edit

Trap a ship with web then nail it with plasma...

By Mark Steven Hoyle (Markshoyle) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 07:26 pm: Edit

X2 Tractors could turn/rotate the target in place (facing) or prevent target from turning.
Limited to GW/X1 Targets.
That would keep the targets from having weapons in firing arc.
Also, less power needed as the range extended.

By the time X2 comes along, Empires should have had some hardcore examination of Andromedan Power Absorbers and Transporters, allowing Transporter operations without lowering shields.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 07:32 pm: Edit

I don't think the Tholians would ever commit to something they couldn't be 100% self reliant on and photons cause them to rely on the Feds. The Tholians psyche is such that they are just barely able to bring themselves to do that in the first place but are willing so long as they can tell themselves they don't 100% have to... that it remain their choice.

What might be really interesting (IMHO) is if the Tholians develop a somewhat different X2 disruptor via independent development. Maybe something that uses some scrap of leftover PC parts?

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 08:21 pm: Edit

Andro tech can't be used to beam through shields, just through PA panels, so I doubt it could be used to develop that ability.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 08:56 pm: Edit

IIRC, experiments with Andro devices has some sort of horrible goo in them that caused instant insanity. I can't remember exactly where I read that but it's a thing is use in a partially developed story I've had for year... which is why I recall it. But then I may be talking out my aft shield.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Perhaps tractor beams could be given a parallel development to the rapid-pulse/X-Aegis option for phasers on X1-ships - as in, to allow a tractor beam to be split into two when aimed at objects of Size Class 5 and smaller?

(A mech link would still only be able to hold onto a single docked PF at a time... assuming any X2-ships even bother with one. Although I suppose a PFQ might still be useful on a survey mission.)

-----

As for the Tholians, I'd be interested to see the long-term impact of the Sojourner's visit, as detailed in Loren's snapshot article from CL39.

What kind of ongoing contact and/or support might the Holdfast provide to their new-found cousins in Draco? Would one expect to see one or more of their X2-ships make regular deployments to and from the Tholiax colony?

And given the timing of Sojourner's arrival in the Milky Way Galaxy, might one or more of that ship's discoveries have played a role in the path the Holdfast ended up taking with their own X2 development?

(Perhaps any new design template which could be used to make X2 Tholian ships look distinct from its Holdfast forebears could be inspired by whatever "new" layout had supposedly been used to build the Sojourner itself.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, January 18, 2015 - 01:52 am: Edit

I don't think Sojourner would have much impact on Tholian development except that some sort of closer contact would be established although it would take longer than to Y225 to really build something significant in Draco. That's a 100 to 200 year project if nothing goes wrong. IMO.

I came up with the idea of Sojourner to illustrate that the Tholians were working on new "things" when the Seltorian Revolt happened. The Sojourner's new "advanced" (not as in X-tech) passive sensor system would not be something of much use to the Holdfast.(New in M81, passe' in MWG) Indeed, the Holdfast probably upgraded those sensors to Alpha style Special Sensors (not X as GW tech units would be easier to maintain and would be plenty good for it's mission.)

I suspect when the Sojourner leads the Holdfast back to Draco it is with a few ships, several military freighters, and a mobile base. Probably all GW era ships.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, January 18, 2015 - 06:22 am: Edit

I think shuttles and fighters having low strength interceptor style shields could be a good idea.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Sunday, January 18, 2015 - 07:15 am: Edit

If X2 ships can fly faster than 32, how will that affect plasma sabots? Weren't sabots already added to the game to deal with higher late-war ship speeds?

I'd like to see an X2 Santa's Sleigh. The guy who owns the factory should have all the best toys, no?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, January 18, 2015 - 08:35 am: Edit

Terry, that's why I am slow to jump on the high speed bandwagon. We would have to have faster drones and plasma so whats the point?

I do not remember any andro goo. Anybody else remember that? Not an instant fan of that idea. Rather the opposite.