A side note:

It might need mentioning in the background somehow that along the rim is the only place where penetrating the galactic barrier is even remotely possible. That perhaps the barrier gets stronger on the "surfaces" and as you go toward the galactic center.
(perhaps the barrier is a product of the radiation zone?)

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:05 am: Edit

That may not work for the Iridani. They are reported to have a number of entry points (with supply docks on either side) by which they can enter and exit the galaxy. Said points on the inside are often there under license from the local Omega power, who often charge a hefty fee in providing such services.

Unless there is something unique about the details of Iridani starship construction that allows them to do this more readily than most other empires.

By Deirdre Brooks (Deirdrebrooks) on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 11:08 am: Edit

Has SFB addressed the energy barrier beyond acknowledging its existence?

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, March 12, 2015 - 05:32 pm: Edit

I was more thinking on the fact that the Tholians arrived in y79. Y178 the 312 battle squadron enters combat.The seltorians arrive y182.

With this time line there is 100 + years before the Seltorians find the holdfast. I think that the group that did attack the holdfast followed the 312. There could have been a earlier group that tried to follow the first escaping Tholians. That group unlike the other ran into a Jindarian caravan ending in there destruction. I am sure due to the loss of there Hive ship.

My thoughts are that victory conditions could revolve around the loss of the hive ship are damg to. As well as the Jindarians not wanting to lose a lot of there Asteroid ships. year being some were around y120 are so.


=

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 01:24 pm: Edit

Gary Carney:

I am not sure where you are getting your references here (honestly), but to the best of my knowledge there is nothing that says the Iridani enter Mæsron space (as an example) without having to traverse Koligahr space (as an example) unless they completely circumvent Koligahr space (by say going around the Koligahr and entering from Trobrin or Vari space). There is no provision for entering Mæsron space from above (or below) the plain of the ecliptic. Yes, the Milky Way is a Spiral Galaxy (as most seem to be if I recall correctly), but that does not mean the Radiation barrier is itself a flat barrier and nothing I can think of off the top of my head says that the barrier is as flat as the spirals (I will accept any direct comment formally printed anywhere in the SFU that says otherwise as proof that I am wrong, I do not claim that my memory is perfect).

So, as things stand, no. You cannot say that Mæsron space is accessible directly without passing through one of the surrounding empires (much less Jindarian Freehold space).

Beyond that, you seem to be miss-interpreting text on the Iridani Supply Docks. While, yes, there are docks on either side of the energy barrier, the reference to other docks all through the Omega Octant that pay stiff prices has nothing to do with crossing the energy barrier, and everything to do with having "local facilities" to supply and repair Iridani Quest Ships operating in a given empire. Thus a Supply Dock in Trobrin Space is not a connection through the energy barrier, it is a logistics node.

Deirdre Brooks:

To the best of my knowledge there is no one formal rules set dealing with it. It is mentioned as part of various background issues. For example the Tholian Holdfast Sphere traveled here from the Tholian Home Galaxy, but is currently immobile because the energy feedback from trying to cross the energy barrier literally "slagged" the engines that moved it. The Tholians do not have the technological capability to repair or rebuild them, and so cannot again run from the Seltorians (or the Klingons). The Bolosco in the Omega Octant suffered substantial losses in ships when they crossed the barrier in the Omega Octant. There are other references.

Gregory S. Flusche;

I believe I referenced the Jindarians not wanting to lose asteroid ships in the original suggestion where I pointed out that for the Seltorian this is a fight "to the death" and for the Jindarians a fight "to the pain" because the Asteroid ships are their "hometowns."

As far as it goes, if you want a copy of the scenario template I can E-mail it to you.

Randy Blair:

Fiction would be nice if we can get a scenario.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Gary Carney:

On another note (sorry, I meant to say this but forgot to), a battle in Jindarian Freehold Space would be like a battle in the Federation capital hex, or at any Major or Minor planet on the Federation & Empire map. It would be KNOWN. That is why it needs to be "on the fringes." Now, obviously there are exceptions.

If one did a battle where the Andromedans in their own galaxy fought Seltorians, that the Andromedans know about it is meaningless, the Alpha Octant would not know. And while the battle might well be "historical" in all respects, for the Alpha Octant population it is a "simulation," a "guess about what might have happened. (And if Randy was able to write a story about it, it would of necessity be only the Seltorian side because no one knows anything about Andromedans).

If one did a battle between the Branthodons and Seltorians, it could be told from both sides (for Randy Blair's story purposes), but no one ever knew (the Seltorians all died in the battle, and the Branthodons were wiped out by the Alunda in Operation Genocide before they could record it). The Seltorians could not penetrate deeply beyond the energy barrier, or they would probably have been found (at least the wreckage of the Hive or Nest ship) by the Alunda, and the concept is that this happened, but there is no record of it generally.

If one did a battle where the Seltorians arrived in Alpha, they have to run into a Jindarian caravan near their entry point through the barrier, as otherwise a Hive or Nest ship is going to be noticed if if moves in deeper. It has to be Jindarians right now because:

A: Running into a Hidden Orion Base would not have enough Orion ships around to accomplish anything.

B: Running into any other published empire's fleet would be noticed.

C: Running into an Andromedan base by surprise may as well be in the Andromedan Galaxy in any case.

If one did a battle where the Seltorians arrived in some other Octant (neither Alpha or Omega), and were crushed by the Jindarians there, there is no knowledge in Alpha or Omega.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Is there any published fiction to date dealing with Seltorians?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Yes. It involved a Tholian CVA vs a Seltorian DCS, in one of the Captain's Logs.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Randy Blair:

Two stories.

"Fire in the Deep" is a story of a Hive Ship encountering Juggernauts told from the point of view of the Seltorians.

"Web of Deceit" flips back and forth between the Tholians and the Seltorians (and Klingons serving as pilots for the Seltorians) as the Tholians lure the only Seltorian ACS into a battle where it is destroyed.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Steve yes please e-mail me the template. If the time line i posted earlier will work i think i will go that route. If not can you send me when the Seltorians would have arrived?

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 06:03 pm: Edit

I'm reading "Web of Deceit" now, but I have no clue where "Fire in the Deep" is.
The CL Index says it's in #41, which I don't have since it's not in PDF yet, but the CL41 ToC doesn't show any "Fire in the Deep" story or any mention of Juggernauts.
Assistance please.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Gregory S. Flusche:

To me the year is fine. As noted, the concept (to me) would be the Seltorians have to occupy the asteroid field and not lose the Hive or Nest ship, and the Jindarians need to avoid losing asteroid ships. There is no retreat for the Seltorians, but the Jindarian asteroid ships must disengage if damaged to some level. Balance would need to be weighted towards relatively little damage causing an asteroid ship to leave and not having the whole Caravan there at one time I think.

Randy Blair:

"Fire in the Deep" is in Captain's Log #41, it was a short story contained in the "Snapshots of History" along with "The Western Worlds," "Star Fleet Pawn Stars," "The Squadron That Never Was," and some others.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 07:41 pm: Edit

You might want to assign internal damage to the Seltorian forces if they just emerged from the energy barrier. Or give them sort of restriction that they can't perform EDR, CDR, etc.

SPP: What are the odds if I ask someone nicely that I can get a copy of the story? I like to do a bit of research on the perspectives of other authors on those off the wall empires.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 07:46 pm: Edit

I suggest purchasing the appropriate Captain's Log.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Randy Blair:

Sorry, not my call, and not something you should ask SVC about until you have heard that CL#50 has gone to press.

As to the Seltorians. Background from the published scenarios shows the ships traveling with freighters between galaxies, and I would imagine those ships were scrapped and used for spare parts (raw material to fabricate the spare parts) and eggs hatched to produce full crews before they arrived, so I would not impose any additional damage. That is to say, sure, they took damage coming through the Energy Barrier, but they then traveled a while before they hit the asteroid field. Not enough time (say a month at very low speeds) to be to far from the energy barrier, but far enough to have hatched crews and made repairs. So they still have not contacted anyone else.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 09:01 pm: Edit

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Quote:

I suggest purchasing the appropriate Captain's Log.

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By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 09:07 pm: Edit

Oh, I thought you might have changed your mind on that topic. It happens.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Not a chance, bro.

By Deirdre Brooks (Deirdrebrooks) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Steve Petrick: Thank you. That answers a few other questions I had as well.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 10:37 pm: Edit

Randy Blair:

I honestly do not understand the question (sorry). Can you try rephrasing it?

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 12:19 am: Edit

SPP: Sorry, what I'm trying to wrap my head around is why is this a "fight to the death" deal for the Seltorians if there's no sense of immediate urgency?
If they are all fixed up after coming in from the galactic barrier, then what's the rush?
Why *this* asteroid field?

Seltorians: Hey look, an asteroid field we can mine and get our ...oh wait...
Jindarians: Beat it.
Seltorians: Ok...next asteroid field.

Credits roll.

Point is, the scenario should reflect an in-game penalty (a burning reason) the Seltorians MUST fight to the death. (Internal damage, no damage control capabilities left, max speed of XX due to low fuel, et al.)

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 10:58 am: Edit

Randy Blair:

Because making those repairs combined with the loss of supplies on ships that did not make it through has left them with enough to get here, not enough to move on.

Think of it as having penetrated the energy barrier and taken damage and losses. Taken stock. Conducted repairs (eggs were hatched before the energy barrier was crossed to bring crews up to strength) while the ships in the best condition were sent out to look for a place to set up light housekeeping while refilling their stockpiles (mining ores to be turned into ingots to be turned into spare parts and replace Dilithium crystals and etc.). The scout ships came back with their reports, and the Seltorian Command Sage (they have actual ranks, I am just using this to stand in) together with his staff sages and ship commander sages looked at the reports, and selected this asteroid field. The scout ship (it is not a scout of course) did not detect the Jindarians, because when the Jindarians detected its approach they hid). So the Seltorians believed it was a vacant field with minimal chances of an encounter with a hostile force. They do not have the resources to go elsewhere (there were other options, but at the time this asteroid field seemed the best choice, now they are committed).

In short, they can fight this one battle, and have to not only fight it, they must win.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Ahh yes and Jindarians being Jindarians just being stubborn cusses say no this is are field get out.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, March 15, 2015 - 07:18 am: Edit

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Quote:

have to not only fight it, they must win

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By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Sunday, March 15, 2015 - 08:49 am: Edit

And a wise bug recently said: "Win or we will die."