While the extra cost is high for a 2nd or 3rd Starbase, I would strongly recommend that too. At some point you'll need ground defences, and those often involve fighters or bombers. The extra freighter building capacity (including variants) will come in handy too.

Even the cash strapped Romulans typically find a way to add a Starbase (no doubt because of my fondness for bombers).

By Bennett Snyder (Planner) on Monday, August 26, 2013 - 04:30 pm: Edit

I am wondering if the pod for the CVT is capable of carrying 12xF-14 and 12xA-10 if the tug is being used as a transport to resupply CVAs in the field instead of the ships returning to a star base. I am presuming that this would be before the AuxCVL and AuvCVA enter service, which could probably perform the same mission, as well as the FCR.
That would mean these carrier types wouldn't have fighters aboard for their own defense.

By John D Berg (Kerg) on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 12:54 pm: Edit

The point is moot no? Axcv come out when your ftrs do.

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Given that in SFB, a fighter can land in a friendly shuttle bay, even if the ready racks are not there or for that type of fighter, you should be able to carry the needed fighters. It can not service them mind you.

Off hand, I'm not sure if the Fed CV pods carry F-18's or F-14's (needed books are at home). I thought F-14's were limited to the CVA only, with F-15's on the BB, BCV, and CVB hulls.

You may be better off with a FCR pod if there is one, or just a plain cargo pod (there are listings for "1 space fighter, ready for flight" in the cargo space annexes).

By Bennett Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 09:34 pm: Edit

It looks like the answer is that pods don't transport fighters like the F-14 and F-15, according to G3 and G3-A.
AuxCV and AuxCVA (and hanger modules) don't appear until 2 years after fighters are fielded.
According to the types of fighters they can carry, only single space types are carried.
CVAs would have to go to a starbase to pick up F-14 fighters and CVBs as well for F-15s.

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Bennett, are you trying to do resupply of fighters within your supply grid, or outside it? Outside it, you'd need to bring them along somehow. Within it, resupply happens at the beginning of the turn from stock and there is no need to have a dedicated supply chain.

In particular, look at E4.70. That requires you have have one AxCVA (or two AxCVLs) if you want fighter resupply to happen. Provided you have the required ship, it isn't relevant what fighters it has (F-4, F-8, F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-20, A-6, A-10, A-20, etc.) your CVs will be resupplied.*

Disclaimer- this assumes standard rules. If the UFP (or some other empire) has special rules about required support ships, those would take precedence. In that case, I'd suggest asking the GM and/or rules committee (that would be Jean and I) via email. That way you don't air your 'dirty laundry' to the rest of the empires prematurely. Like a Mr. Garibaldi, Jean and I don't tell ourselves (wearing the player hat) what we find out about via the rules committee one.

* I agree this isn't perfect. As our rule predates the FCR design in SFB (at least I think it does), that it isn't a perfect fit for the SFU history now isn't a huge surprise. One could ask the GM/rules committee to reconsider things and require FCRs instead in a future version of the rules.

By Bennett Snyder (Planner) on Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 10:27 pm: Edit

I was thinking of both, using real naval history as a source in which jeep carriers resupplied fleet carriers and the occasion in which USS WASP had to remove her bombers and torpedo planes in order to carry 60 Spitfires while her fighters remained on the flight deck to Malta accompanied by a British carrier.
I figured other carrier races may have similar questions and this would help them.
I thank you for your help with this.

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 10:33 am: Edit

I've added a note to my thoughts on rules document to bring up FCR type stuff when we do the next major rulebook change (at whatever date).

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Okay, maybe I'm missing it, but is there an example of the sequence of play?

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Thursday, November 21, 2013 - 11:15 am: Edit

The fancy sort like you'd find in a F&E or SFB annex? No, I can't say I recall seeing a SOP. If one digs through the rules, one can derive one but that is a non-trivial thing. I'll try and add this to my list-o-things to refresh/evaluate(which is at home vs at work where I am).

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 12:17 am: Edit

I do not see one in the rulebook. I have added it to the list of things to work on for the next point release. Work (plus some Captain's Log work and the holidays) are eating a lot of time so I don't expect to make any progress on my own for a while.

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 02:03 pm: Edit

Hmm, okay. Well in the mean time I'll work on one for my group. We're starting a campaign after new years.

By John D Berg (Kerg) on Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 09:16 am: Edit

I cant believe we forgot one lol.....i bet it is a long document lol.

By Bennett Snyder (Planner) on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Do decoy sensors have an EP cost? I've looked at C5.100 and it doesn't explain in enough detail how it is installed/paid for.

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 10:25 pm: Edit

You buy a SAMS/BS/BATS (it would presumably count against the base limit) as a SAMS/MB/BS/etc. decoy sensor is how I read it.

By John D Berg (Kerg) on Monday, November 10, 2014 - 12:09 pm: Edit

FYI- Please note the difference between WS and FLY. While the WS grants you the first attack in a battle, free, you cannot announce your leaving until the end of that first combat round...hence you effectively get two attacks to your opponents one.

FLY is the RX MV that allows you to scream into a battle, attack, and leave before your enemy fights back, albeit with less AF.

By John D Berg (Kerg) on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 08:13 am: Edit

Moved from another thread. Interesting break-up of Empires. I seem to remember the Canadiens had a number of Ships after C4, I think in Captain's Logs. Which brings me to the obvious question of how "missing" Ships and Bases are handled. Whilst the Alpha Octant - including the Peladine and Borak - are well supplied with Ships and Bases of most types, Omega, most Simulator and also LMC and Triangulum Galaxy (if they're used) Races are not. Most Bases, including Ground Bases, are covered by Generics, but how are Tugs, Survey Ships, Minesweepers and Commando Ships, as well as Tug Pods, handled? Also most of these Races, except the Frax and, to some extent, the Qari, are very light on for Ship types. E.G. the Trobrin have only DN, CA and FF Hulls. And they would all be light on for Police and National Guard Ships as well.
I see that Fighters (and I assume Heavy Fighters and Bombers) are 50% BPV, which is good. And Fighters and PF's for Carriers and PFT's are apparently free. Is this only for your initial Force or is this for all purchases? EP = EPV one for one.
Overall the Economics appear rather scary, but I'd suspect that once you get right down into it it's fairly simple.
Definitely interested in getting my geriatric brain into this, but I'd certainly need a patient tutor at least to begin with.

By John D Berg (Kerg) on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 08:16 am: Edit

Missing ships are generally delt with by using R and D. If you dont have a tug you need to R and D one.

We have a spread sheet to help with econ and a mentor program.

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 08:52 am: Edit

One has to pay for attrition units and most "consumables" beyond admin shuttles - i.e. one buys MSS, MRS, FTR, bombers - EPV = 50%; one buys INT/PF @ SFB published EPV. See C20.0. Drone speed upgrades are paid for (once) as well.

Historically we have tried to only play with empires that have a useful ship mix. This limits things to Alpha, and a small number of the other settings (Omega, Simulator, LMC, etc.). Since the SFU ship list is growing, the number of playable empires is increasing somewhat- the "Lost Empires" empires are perhaps playable today vs. when the current game started a while back.

Common economics is somewhere between a 1040EZ and 1040A form in complexity- certainly anyone able to do SFB can handle it. Exotic corner cases for economics (mostly empire specific stuff I suspect) can be problems for folks that don't know how to modify spreadsheets. Keeping things at the correct level of comphrensiveness can be a challenge- if you are not doing "X" (spies, R&D, crew training, etc.) those fields can be nothing more than clutter on the form. :-(

By John Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 09:59 am: Edit

John Cristie,

...because we play the Battles out.

Interesting. Have you compared your results with the GQ system of fighting?

By John D Berg (Kerg) on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 10:43 am: Edit

Do you have a link for the GQ thing?

By John Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Monday, June 15, 2015 - 01:30 pm: Edit

You are the "link" JB! LOL

(never mind my "typo" - LOL again)

By Lanny Smith (Lance1967) on Thursday, February 25, 2016 - 04:53 pm: Edit

Ok guys, I have a couple of questions about MRR.

1. According to rule B3.50, when multiple SR's are working on a MRR, they must begin in unison. Does that apply to adding a 4th once you research AdvMRR?

2. Is a CPP treated like any other base in that I build it in the hex being surveyed? Or do I build it elsewhere and use a tug to get it there?

3. Is a CPP equivalent to a CPL in that it can be upgraded to a CB (B11.70)?

Thanks,

Lanny

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Friday, February 26, 2016 - 04:00 pm: Edit

1- yes. However many you start with is how many you are stuck with.

2- build in place is, generally speaking, the better choice (I assume there exists a corner case where it does not).

3- for our purposes CPL and CPP are the same.

By Lanny Smith (Lance1967) on Friday, February 26, 2016 - 05:36 pm: Edit

Thanks!