Col Knight:

Stray thought? You know, when I suggested earlier that just because the moon near Cassandra IV was unstable by federation standards, and that the Klingons might consider it sufficient to put a base in?

What if the Klingon command in this system could forsee the reoccupation of the system due to insufficient Deep Space Fleet strength to resist?

If the klingon Garrison didnt have the ability to retreat, and was a similar size to the 429th, a single freighter might be enough to "shuttle" components over there? No one on the planet had the ability to "observe" activity in orbit above the planet, the active scanners and sensors of the klingons would have spotted it.

When the Star Fleet ships arrived at Cassandra IV, they might not have devoted any time to scan the moon other than superficially? (after all, its unstable! every body knows that....)

Even just putting a medium fighter base there and having the fighters available for when the DSF returns to the system would give a great aid to defeating the Federation...

This may be fantasy, but perhaps we should just ask Major wells to send a patrol with an Admin shuttle configured for scientific research (using Lab function) to inspect the moon?

May be nothing, but if there is a nest of Klingons there, It would be well to know about it!

(was trying to consider a possible Operations exercise by asking the "what if" questions...then had to consider,"why not?!?...)(GRIN)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 12:22 pm: Edit

Scan Protocalls are naturally thurough. If there was an Eveready battery on that moon they would have found it and certainly anthing that is a possible threat would have been found including a nest of Klingons. If there was Klingons on that moon I'd feel pretty sorry for those poor soles. They'd have been there for a pretty long time.

However, there will always be regulare scans of local space including the moon. And don't forget, Rigal Prospecting Corp. has a claim on the Triterium crystals that grow there. They have reported nothing out of order there as well.

Triterium crystals, as you all know, are useful in making alloys during the plasma induction process. They grow naturally (though can be grown artificially) due to the conditions that cause the unstability of the Cassadra IV Moon. Rigal Prospecting Corp. has seen to it that invading their automated security on their claim will cost more than it's worth to take the crystals but I suppose it is possible some dumb pirate might try. It is not our resposability to protect that claim but we will do our best to drive off any unscupulous miner as we will with any unlawful vessels in the system.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Not wishing to contradict the col, but if an every ready battery could be detected with that degree of certainty,how could sub light evasion rule C7.3 evasion by sublight evasion function? especialy since there is a modification for ships within 35 hexes? Cassandra Iv is 50 hexes from the moon, there are no Rigel facilities in orbit of either Cassandr IV or the moon itself, and Rigel Prospecting were not operating in this system while the Klingons were in occupation.

Just suggesting that a look would be warranted.

And just for the record, you are probably correct...but so was everyone who predicted that the germans wouldn't invade thru the Ardennes Forrest in 1870, and again predicted that the Germans would't invade in 1914 and yet again in 1940, and there were people that adamantly insisted that the Germans wouldn't use the Forest in 1944!

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 02:13 pm: Edit

Because we are taking weeks, if not months, to conduct a thoruough scan of a _very_ limited volume of space. Unlike subligh evasion, which involves looking for something in a much larger volume, and usually in a much much shorter time frame, as the warship doesn't have the luxury of scanning a given volume for weeks on end.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 02:45 pm: Edit

And the inhabitants of Ancient Troy didnt bother to inspect the Horse because they "Knew" that it was a gift from the Greeks...

Fine, you win. There is probably no danger. Couldnt happen here.

Besides, Klingons wouldnt have the discipline or motivation to want to attack the Federation, right?

Forget about it, besides there is a flight of B17's due in this morning from California...that Radar report of 360 planes form the North West is just the bombers from the USAAF. Secure the Radar station and go get some chow...

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:02 pm: Edit

Whatever.

I was addressing the fact that the circumstances of sublight disengagement are wildly different from those in which weeks, indeed months, can be taken to scan what is a very specific and localized piece of real estate. It's pretty safe to say that the system has been/is being pretty thouroughly scrutinized, and if there are any "Klingon suprises", they're going to be part of the SFB scenario Petrick presents. If you want to have histrionics about it, be my guest.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Alex: No one was in a position to see what the Klingons did during the retreat.

No one has looked at the Moon since the Federation came back.

Just pointing out that it a good place to hide something in plain sight.

Sorry if you don't like it.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:41 pm: Edit

I had proposed that a survey of the system be undertaken upon the entry into the system. Having several fighters take a look around the moon as part of the next training flight would be a convenient and practical exercise. But panicking over a possible mothballed facility is more likely to be less productive than any potential spies or sabotuers left behind or recruited by the Klingons.

Note: I don't expect the latter to be a serious issue but it does fit with having the various defensive bases seperated from any civillian facilities.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:43 pm: Edit

And how do you conclude that nobody has looked at the moon since the system was liberated? For all we know the NSC Calypso spent six weeks after the liberation doing detailed scans while the rest of her squadron was getting repaired and resupplied.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Alex: And how do you conclude that Calypso conducted those scans?

Was there no relief operation going to ease the suffering the survivors on Cassandra IV?

There are no proper repair facilities in the system, did you expect Calypso would be conducting S&D operations while repairing battle damage? for that matter, do you know how badly damaged Calypso was? was she even able to conduct the scans that you assume she did?

(grin) The point is, until somebody "checks it out" the moon could be anything from the benign ball of Ice the initial survey indicated to a nest of Sun Snakes about to hatch and make the local sun go Nova. (do sun snakes nest? if so why?)(GRIN)

Major Wells. Thankyou, but I am not panicing. I do however feel that a quick look see would be appropriate.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 05:40 pm: Edit

Um, when did I say that that was the actualy course of events. I said, "For all we know...". We being the posters in this topic. A possible case. One out of many.

YOU are the one making flat out statements of what did or did not happen:

---

Quote:

Alex: No one was in a position to see what the Klingons did during the retreat.

No one has looked at the Moon since the Federation came back.

---

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 05:46 pm: Edit

True: but in absence of a postive report stating that such and such scans had been completed, how can you assume when they infact were?

Alex:calm down. you are getting adjitated over what is (materially) a minor matter.

Also, look at Major wells post, he recommended exactly the patrol and scan that you advocate. He did not report that he had performed such a patrol!

How about actually reading the posts for their content? Hmm? (GRIN)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Major wells: I liked your last point. if you were forced to retreat from a position that you felt your forces would want to recapture later, and you had the chance to "hide" your facilities in a place where no one would look...might you bury the base with suitiable booby traps or a caretaker...then when you came back to evict the enemy occuping force, you could deploy the new facilities that you bring with you as well as "dig up you old Phaser 4 bases?

I realize that you feel the chances approach zero of actually finding anything on the moon...but if there were something there I would be concerned about booby traps...

There have been stories from WW@ that as the Germans retreated in the face of allied attacks, they would leave explosive traps behind hoping that an unsuspecting patrol would set it off.

I wonder if the Klingons share that characteristic?

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Of course he hasn't performed such a patrol yet. The 429th is still in transit "in-story."

And where are the positive reports that a planet crusher isn't about to eat the planet? Or that the entire population hasn't been taking over by Plants? Or...none of that really matters for the point of the exercise here, which his Loren Knight coming up with an SFB deployment plan for a scanrio Petrick is going to provide, with a bit of color thrown in. One can assume that everything outside that scenario has been handled in a reasonably comptetent manner. Or, if it hasn't, then it will be a special scenario rule in that scenario. But we aren't designing that part of the scenario.

As for calming down, this started when you asked how sublight disengagement could ever work if detailed scans like Loren refered to were possible. I simply pointed out that there are huge differences in scale, both in space and time, between a ship in battle sublight disengaging and scanning a moon, which is a rather small body.

To which you responded:

---

Quote:

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 02:45 pm: Edit

And the inhabitants of Ancient Troy didnt bother to inspect the Horse because they "Knew" that it was a gift from the Greeks...

Fine, you win. There is probably no danger. Couldnt happen here.

Besides, Klingons wouldnt have the discipline or motivation to want to attack the Federation, right?

Forget about it, besides there is a flight of B17's due in this morning from California...that Radar report of 360 planes form the North West is just the bombers from the USAAF. Secure the Radar station and go get some chow...

---

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:31 pm: Edit

That's enought of that, please. Alex is correct, there is a huge difference between the sub-light evasion tactic (which occures over the space of minute with a unit traveling at near C). When the Klingons retreated and the Federation secured the system a compleat scan of the entire system was made (from Cassandra Prime to Cassadra VI). Some small beginnings of fortifications were up rooted and several dozen small mines were swept. After some time the area was declaired secure and we are there to maintain that security along with the local security. We will make regular scanns of local space including the moon. Rigal Prospecting Corp. has been on the moon several times and were no doubt thurough when they reclaimed their instalation there. Evidence shows the Klingons were too busy and had not bothered with it yet though they had "dropped in" to investigate. (You know, to see if we left anything there.)

I'll be back shortly with the last Comm. Ops. figures for the fighters. Sorry about the delay, I have much on my plate.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 12:09 am: Edit

SPP: I have bit of uncertainty regarding vehicles and transporters. GCVs can be transported; tanks can't. The other vehicles are not clearly labeled. I presume the GCV variants can be transported. That still leaves Trucks, Trans-Howitzers, and Combat Engineer Vehicles undefined. (The first being relevant to the situation on this planet.) Can all of these units be transported?

By David Kass (Dkass) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 10:56 am: Edit

Since the exception (in the transporter rules) is explicitly written for GCV (and is based on them being designed for disassembly), I would guess that trucks are not allowed. Sorry I can't quote the exact rule listing.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 11:01 am: Edit

Richard Wells:

The ONLY vehicle that can be transported is the GCV. My reading of the rules would extend that to variants of the GCV (which includes the Transporter Artillery Ammo Vehicle, but NOT the Transporter Artillery Vehicle. Since trucks are not a variant of the GCV, and have no instruction on how to transport them by transporter, as opposed to by shuttle or truck (see Annex #7K) (i.e., what effort is needed, in essence that a truck can carry a truck).

As such, I would say that a GCV, GAV, APV, CPV, and Armored Artillery Ammunition Vehicle can be transported under the BASIC GCV rule (three transporters required) but that an Armored Artillery Ammunition Vehicle's munitions would have to be transported separately [explosive ordnance (G25.3)], and tanks, Combat Engineer Vehicles, and Trans-Howitzers cannot be moved by transporter.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 11:49 am: Edit

Sorry for the delay regarding the Fighter Comm. Ops. I had them last night but forgot to post them. Here they are.


Total allowed Comm. Ops. for fighters = 25.8
34 ADD rounds = 8.5
8 extra Deck Crews (4 each FGB-S)= 4
12 Ground Attack pods (6 each FGB-S)= 12
4 Trans. Artillary (2 each FGB-S) = 1
Total Comm. OPs spent = 25.5

I think this was the only thing missing. I do want a sensor pods as part of the allowed aux. Pods. The combat pods are phaser pods and of course the allowed EW pods are there too.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 12:56 pm: Edit

I am still waiting for three things:

1.) The actual purchase of the drones on the fighters.

2.) Who is where? In this I mean the various base commanders. Who is in charge of which Ground Based Defenese Phaser-4 on the planet, who is in charge of which of the two Ground Warning Stations? Who is in charge of which Fighter Ground Base-Small, and from which Fighter Ground Base Small does each of the two fighter flights operate from?

3.) The final listing of the "free pods" for the fighters. I can see that 12 ground attack pods were purchased, but what is in the free pod stockpile?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 01:18 pm: Edit

OK, tonight I will try to assemble what I have posted in one place. I forgot I was the one assigning possitions and I thought I had defined what the free pods were but I'll review. Maybe I didn't post.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 01:44 pm: Edit

Actually, this is what I said on base commands:

"Then it will come.

And some will live, some will die in the inevitable storm. In many cases it will be "random" in that Colonel Knight will direct where bases will be (the overall pattern, i.e., the GMG will be here, the GWSs will be on these two sides of the planet, the FGBs will be here and here, the GBDPs have to be here, here, and here).

Then Major Harding will designate that the FGB-S in Hex 2215-A will be the one with his flight, and will be commanded by Lieutenant Fant, while the one in 2215-C (or where ever Knight directed it would be) is the base commanded by Lieutenant Knipfer from which the flight led by Captain Cole will operate.

Captain Kass will determine if the GWS in 2215-A is commanded by Lieutenant Getgen or Lieutenant Kasper (the other base being commanded by the other lieutenant, of course). Captain Kass himself will be in the Battalion HQ as the principle EW adviser to Colonel Knight.

Captain Stovell will then designate which of the GBDPs is commanded by which of his young Lieutenants (Frazier, Conn, and Lampert). Captain Stovell, will, of course, be at the Battalion HQ as the principle Heavy Weapons adviser to Colonel Knight.

Then, when the bad guys come, and the GBDP in 2215-A is attacked, gallant young Lieutenant X will fight his gun, perhaps falling when the base is obliterated (think of the Romulan commander flying across the viewscreen as his Warbird self-destructs), or perhaps falls as enemy assault troops enter his base, or maybe is captured, or maybe is beamed out at the last moment with the few survivors of his gun just before it is overrun, and so gets to fight on. Of course, this latter is entirely up to Colonel Knight who may not have transporters available. But Lieutenant Y at the second gun may be sitting waiting for the action that might never come if other assets do their job right."

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Oh, yes, and I am still not clear if the ground bases in a given area will all be in one GCL (allowing available boarding parties to mass to their defense), or separate GCLs (allowing them to be attacked one by one with fewer boarding parties to defend because they will be divided between the GCLs). And exactly how many Ground Defense Systems you are buying (total number and where they are).

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 04:42 am: Edit

From Cpt. stovell
To Lieutentants Lambert,Conn,Frazier
Assignments

Lieutentant Lambert Gun one at Alpha
Lieutentant Conn Gun Two at Cicino
Lieytentant Stewart Frazier Gun Three at Enrico

Advise as soon as your battery is operational and calibrated to deal with atmospheric effects.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 09:21 pm: Edit

From: Lt S Frazier
TO: Cpt Stovell
Subj: Readyness Status

Currently have an ETO of 10 minutes, undergoing final weapons checks.