Archive through August 10, 2017
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Lyran Tactics:
Archive through August 10, 2017
I'm fighting in an interesting fleet battle as the Lyrans against the Klingons.
The Lyran fleet, controlled by me, consists of a DNH, 2x HCWs, and an HDW, and four Z-YCs.
The Klingon fleet consists of a C7, 2x D7D, and a D6D.
My Heavy War Destroyed is configured with two special sensors in the Opt mounts and with a total of ten fighter ready racks, although I only have four fighters with the fleet. The four fighters don't have warp booster packs, but are equipped with speed-32 drones. Each of my ships also has one T-Bomb.
The Klingon fleet is equipped with speed-32 drones and he has up to 36 points for commander's options (not sure what he'll be buying yet).
Not quite sure what would be the best tactic to use here. On paper, I have more firepower than he does (17 disruptors, 28 ph-1s, and 12 ph-2s vs. 12 disruptors, 16 ph-1s, and 11 ph-2s), but his fleet does have 18 drone racks and my HDW can't function as both a scout and a combat unit on the same turn (at least not without blinding the sensors).
One thing I'm not sure of is whether my HDW can prepare scatter packs. It has a number of drones in storage for the fighters, but is it capable of loading and launching a scatter pack?
Your fighters and HDW are going to have to spend most of their effort on drone defense.
Place OEW on the C7.
Buy some extra marines, the klinks have a LOT of transporter capacity.
You have a BIG problem in that the D6 is a MUCH better scout than the HDW imho.
You can launch scatter packs, but you can control only 3 drones/SPs per ship, and that's not many. Load up with a lot of type-6 drones and use them to knock down the Klink drones.
Or cheese out and use remote-control fighters (the Ultimate SFB Drone).
And drogues.
Of course, he may also use drogues.
Oh, the humanity.
How do drogues interact with ESGs?
And doesn't the remote-control fighter take up a control channel, exacerbating the control channel issues?
To Jim Davies:
Do you know what rule says that I can launch scatter packs? My opponent and I had briefly discussed that issue and he was pretty sure I couldn't, so I'd like to be able to reference a rule that says I can.
To Mike Strain:
We had both agreed to not take drogues for this battle, which is probably better for me than it is for him, since he can't have any heavy drone drogues.
So, for the actual battle though, should I try to leverage my bigger firepower and size by charging him early, hoping for a good overrun (using fighters as a big part of my drone defense) or do I play a long range sniping game, keeping the distance high?
The distance game is his game. You only have two disruptors more than he does and he maneuvers better. His fleet looks optimized for a sabre dance.
I'd say you want the range to be as close as you can practically make it. EW means less when the rolls to hit are higher.
Set a aggressive-sustainable fleet speed and close as much as he'll let you. Try to herd him into a corner. Trade disruptor shots with him all the way. Don't be worried if he comes out a little on top. If you damage each other equally, he's losing. You'll make your money back once things get inside OL range.
Use your drones for counter-drone work. You don't have enough to hope to seriously stress his defenses anyway. Load up on ECM, starfish and perhaps MW drones. Nothing wrong with having a fighter launch an ECM drone at one of your ships, is there? Remember your fighters' type VI drones. They kill an enemy drone just as easily as a type I.
Re scatterpacks: there's nothing in FD7 to say which ships can or can't do it, so it stands to reason that you can.
I think the only restriction is on ships that don't normally carry drones, and that's because you have no way of buying them, and those crews aren't trained in routine handling of ICBMs. In this case, you're fine.
Even with SPs, he doesn't have the control channels to make a dent in the Klink drone defense, but a shatterpack or two would drastically help his drone defense. Just watch the ECM drones.
I could still control two full loads of Scatter Packs with my ships and of course, the fighters control their own drones. That is quite a few drones, at least until I run out of shuttles and he destroys my fighters.
(FD7.39) describes "drone capable ships" as being those with drone racks or drone-armed fighters. So, the HDW is drone capable.
(FD7.392) says that ships that aren't drone capable cannot use or program a SP, even if it was loaded by a friendly ship and landed aboard.
YEAR: 165
RACE: Lyran
COs: 10% free
OBJECTIVE: Optimal aggro exploration 600 cBPV fleet. Fleet requires 1x scout and 1x commando capability, the rest would be combat variants. For this I am focused on the commando part.
QUESTION: Is there a better two-ship combination to fulfill the DG requirement for the same cBPV than the JGP below and if so why (tactically)? In other words I don't want to waste a slot for a toothless DDG when I can get a combat hull with DG capability unless there is some compelling reason to use a DDG and HFF or something.
JGP-DG build-
BPV- 112
No refits.
NWO OPTIONS- 2xCgo, 2x Brks, 2x shtl (1xHTS and 2xGAS), 20x BP, 2x CMDO- =30bpv
10%CO 2x T-Bomb, 2x CMDO, 2x BP 11
TOTAL BPV 142
Answers from EaW participants will be taken with a grain of salt. 
The commando configured JGP is a fine commando ship, but I would think that a TG-P or a TG-C using a Klingon troop Pod and a Klingon scout pod would also be a good choice.
In theory an SR carrying a Klingon troop pod could work as well.
Can thge scout also be the commando ship?
If so, consider the SR with a commando pallet...
Michael- My tug oriented fleet(s)is another story.;-)
Mike G- Yes I think that the SR would be a good fit, two channels with a 3-4 ship fleet but 4 channels would be optimal with a 5 or 6 hull fleet. I think the the Ocelot(SC) is 100/60 and the DDG is 81/66 = 126 cBPV is efficient. The JGP-DG and the SC at 202 cBPV is expensive but I gain 1x disruptor and lose one hull which synergizes better with the scout capability (4 channels). The SCs turn mode allows it to maneuver inside the fleet formation. Consider a Y165 CC,CA,SC,DDG,DW,DD vs. CC,CA,SC,JGP,DW comparo, the remaining BPV is reserved for the refits coming in the next 3 years.
Which begs the question, which is better to have more lighter hulls or less but larger hulls?
Also, no K-pods available (Y166!), an SR with the TT pallet is expensive...
Troy, I would think going with 10 Freighters Plus a Scout per Fleet would be a better option 
That said, the JGP is an awesome ship and should be used as often as possible. You also want to use your DW and CW because you get them in Y165 and are ahead of us in this game (I think I dont get them until Y170 or beyond).
The big problem in terms of Scouts is you only get the SC and it is expensive and weak, compared to the DWS which is coming in a few years. Well, there is also the SR, but that is a fairly expensive option for your Scout pick - so I dare say you'd only be getting it if you saw a real role in combat (I can buy super cheap Scouts which are totally useless in combat, or can buy actual Scouts which are useful - a very nice option for me).
Which begs the question, which is better to have more lighter hulls or less but larger hulls?
The age-old question of SFB. And I think the answer very much depends on the ships. You'd choose a BC over 2xDD, but you'd probably take 2xDW over a refitted BC (or maybe not - but at least you'd consider it). And if we are talking LDR, you'd take DWs over everything else.
What you need to ask yourself is: "If I were to take 2 small ships would I be happy losing 1, if it meant destroying a large enemy ship". Im sure the answer is yes. But what about having both crippled to his 1 ship crippled? In a game which doesnt really distinguish between ship sizes in terms of refits/repairs/etc. then it probably doesnt matter too much.
But with 2 small ships you always have the option of dividing them in to other fleets. And if outnumbered in combat, you can always sacrifice one with a charge in to the middle of the enemy (ESG threat plus explosion threat) and have the other try and escape through the wormhole.
Your idea of going for one large exploration fleet is interesting - though could just be foxing. Im really looking forward to the different ways people have decided to set up their fleets, and how they plan to move them around.
As well Troy for a slightly cheaper scout with good capabilities the LAS is a great SC 4 Scout. Unluckily it is a general freighter type so you need to be able to play with those restrictions. It generally allows for 3 full channels worth of lending with the 4rth around for non-lending(or ie 4 lending non-full EW).
Of course the Jag P would be the best bang for your buck for a commando ship. Although stocking up with CW's and DW's for the actual fleet helps in the early years. By Y175 when your NCA's, HCW's(or CWH's I always mix the nomenclature up), and CCHs dominance is yours til near Y180 when it starts to get harder.
He should be pumping out PFs in great numbers as soon as they are available. Dont need to worry about much else.
Well actually PFs are good up to a point but full flotillas are expensive for their effectiveness. Casuals work out well as they can flood or overwhelm defenses.
The problem is PFs start at Y178 and that is when drones become more effective. As well until the Y182 shield refit having a 7 point shield can hurt. Of course if you are able to maintain PFs to a high degree it can be very helpful.
The only time campaign-wise I had PFs in numbers I had trouble maintaining my PF fleet to 10 or so flotillas as in that campaign most of my Bases/docks/build capacity was near the center of my "empire" while most of my attacks were 4 or so hexes out from the center.
Most campaign rules as well make having more than a flotilla or 2 in a fleet cost prohibitive. Although throwing high density lines out there with PFs anchoring that line is helpful for the individual battle they're in.
As well for lyran PFs specifically the R4-5 from P1's can be deadly so I normally used mine as R8 min for battle passes. Although the one time I caught an undamaged Gorn DNH that had fired everything early with a R0 battle pass from 6 PFs definitely was a glorious thing even only with std disrthe near 30 damage per PF gutted it rather nicely.
Thanks everyone! When I find a hull like the JGP and go "Wow this thing is pretty versatile." is about the time I end up on someone else's highlight reel. Thanks for the confirmation.
Quick question since I noticed tugs mentioned up there.
I'm currently in process of sculpting Lyran ships for ADB's Shapeways project as you may have noticed in the appropriate thread. One thing I've been asked to turn my attention to this month is tug pallets.
Which pallets other than Cargo and Combat do you use on a regular basis? Which would be most welcome for you to see in the store? Are there any that you sorely miss?
Thanks!
Survey, PFT, Space control. They are very alike.
Survey ... you mean scout?
No, survey. Lyrans have survey pallets.