Energy sink, no

By Glenn Hoepfner (Ikabar) on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:04 am: Edit

Regarding mid-turn EA, it would be impulse 17 (not 16), I would say energy allocated and plotted for movement could not be changed but HET allocation, transporters, tractors, sensors, etc (assuming unused) may be re-allocated. This may be too powerful a tool but could be tempered with further restrictions and technobabble. This ability could be "reasoned" that X2 tech can transfer energy allocated from one source to another in mid-turn. I would further restrict energy in weapons with (maybe) the exception of transfering power in weapons to other weapon systems. Just thinking on the fly.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:04 am: Edit

I could go with Glenn's idea (he is not the first person to suggest it) if it doesn't prove to be too powerful.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Alternative idea to rotating shield: Structural Reinforcement (SR).

Add energy points to SR during EA or from batteries and use SR points to double the damage required for each internal hit.

Two possible methods:

A)On first hit to a system place a dot and reduce SR by one. That system cannot be reinforced again until repaired. Dots can be repaired with CDR without limit. A second hit to the system (dotted must be hit first, but do not use remaining SR points) destroys the system normally (gets crossed out).

or the super simple method:

B) Each internal hit takes two internal damage points until SR points are used up.

Of course combined with the generational fractional damage rule this might be way too much. Actually, I'd prefer this over the generational fractional rule (a point of power is a point of power, a point of damage is a point of damage is a foundational concept in SFB) but that's neither here nor there.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Mid turn reallocation of power is something I had proposed way back in the 90s, though I had suggested only using a small portion of power or some such (I am thinking now perhaps 10% of EA power). You wouldn't have to set aside the power during normal EA, but rather it is generated in mid-turn as a normal feature of 2X ships.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Since the proposed items which Glenn would suggest for mid-turn re-allocation are things which would be allocated at the instant of use over in FC, such a setup in SFB would avoid causing any conversion issues later on.

Of course, the goal here is to make things work for SFB first - but since Module X2 will be the first introduction of a new Alpha Octant technology level since Federation Commander was published, I'd hope that whatever rules are established here would cause a minimum of fuss when the time comes for "X2-Ships Attack" (or whatever it might be called) to follow suit.


As for Loren's SR idea, that sounds like something which may be a bit too good if combined with the 50%/200% rule directly. But it could make things interesting if the latter rule applied to shields only.

One could set up banks of SR boxes on the SSD, akin to the banks of neutronium armour boxes shown here. In keeping with Loren's option B), one could mark every odd-numbered internal on the facing bank, up to the capacity of the bank in question. This would be treated separately from shield hits, which would use the "default" 50%/200% rule instead.

In order to maintain a semblance of the "50%/200%" principle, perhaps SR banks could be made less effective against X2-ship weapons - maybe only absorbing every first of four internals instead? (As in, SR banks taking a volley of ten pre-X2 internals would absorb the first, third, fifth, seventh, and ninth hits; but that same bank taking a volley of ten X2 internals would absorb the first, fifth, and ninth hits only.)

SR banks would also make their increased durability tied to the increase in power output which one might expect to see on an X2-ship. And it might allow for a good technobabble excuse as to why all X2-ships have to be built as such from the keel up, as it would likely be impossible for SR banks to be retrofitted into pre-X2 hulls.

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 05:22 pm: Edit

Structural reinforcement makes a nice technobabble to explain the 2/1 damage ratio, I'm not sure it needs a separate rule beyond that.

Then you need a statement that X2 weapons and shields are twice as powerful as older weapons and you've largely got your 2/1 implemented. (Need to decide what happens if docked units transfer energy, but that's relatively minor.)

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 06:39 pm: Edit

One of the key aspects of Module X2 - and of whichever subsequent module/s would later introduce the Xorkaelian Tyranny - is what the "future history" of the Alpha Octant will look like. Both in terms of how the Alpha timeline may look when extended through to Y225, and in how the various new dynamics and new discoveries will affect a number of individual Alpha empires going forward.

For what it's worth, NCC-1821 USS Sakharov: Voyages of Discovery from Captain's Log #51 takes a "side glance" at certain events; after all, the ship in question isn't actually in the Alpha Octant for most of this era. But its very presence in the LMC, and later in the Omega Octant and back again, shows how the horizons of known space have expanded - and how the maps would need to be re-drawn upon the ship's return in Y219.

On a personal level, one of the reasons why I'd be so keen to see Star Fleet build a "XGS" class to succeed the GSC and GSX is so that one or more of these ships could be sent to follow in Sakharov's wake.

But if the class history article in CL41 is anything to go by, the Second Fleet is really starting to run out of survey cruisers by the mid-to-late Y200s. So it may do with adding a number of XGSs to its ranks, simply to keep its numbers up in the Survey Area.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 07:37 pm: Edit

Hmmmm, well there are the two CLSs (CL-based SRs) that could be retired and probably replaced with GSXs, then some of the GSCs should follow (though with just GSXs or new XGSs is the question)...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 07:43 pm: Edit

According to CL41, the CLSs Viking and Voyager were both retired at the end of the General War. All of the named GSCs had been lost, retired, or assigned to museums by around Y208. While the NSR Ibn Batuta was retired after the Andromedan War.

That said, I do like the idea of one or more of these ships being handed down from the Second Fleet to the National Guards, to succeed the long-serving GSR Amerigo Vespucci.

That leaves the GVX Colin Powell, plus the five named GSXs. And of those, at least two (Sakharov and Fermi) each spend a fair amount of time outside of the Alpha Octant.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:02 pm: Edit

I don't see what this has to do with X2 ships, apart from being in the time period. Perhaps another topic would be more appropriate.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:12 pm: Edit

I had been thinking about whether or not there ought to be a "Star Fleet survey ship review thread", where the data from CL41 could be pored over in order to see if/when any new survey ships may need to be added to the Second Fleet roster.

But I would still see this as potentially tying to Module X2, since I'm hoping it might help make the case for a new XGS SSD to be included in this volume, as the GSX was in Module X1.

Actually, I'd also be keen to see other Alpha Octant empires, such as the ISC, build their own X2-tech survey cruisers. But how high the odds of such ships historically existing may (or may not) be is another story.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, July 13, 2017 - 01:16 pm: Edit

I may have noted this before, but one of my hopes for Module X2 (and for any subsequent Xorkaelian module) is that it (or they) could take full advantage of being the first "new" era of Alpha Octant history to be developed in the current era of ADB itself: the era of new "sibling" games like Federation Commander and A Call to Arms: Star Fleet, as well as the era of Starline 2500 and (now) of Shapeways.

In saying this, I'm not trying to suggest that a whole wave of new 3D models have to be worked up before any X2-ships (or Xorks) could be committed to print. But, for example, perhaps sample designs could be worked up for a handful of "poster" ships during the Module X2 development process; such as the Federation XCA, the Klingon XBC, and... whatever the main Romulan X2-cruiser would look like.


Of course, it remains to be seen how well some of these projects (such as Shapeways) will "mature" as time goes on. And it may be a while yet before X2 itself gets formally underway. Even so, it would be interesting to see what blend of old and new could be used to bring the era of second-generation X-ships to life, as and when the time comes to do so.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Monday, August 21, 2017 - 08:04 pm: Edit

SVC is X2 under development for 2017 or 2018?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 11:57 am: Edit

At this point 2018 would be a better bet.

I got kinda discouraged the last time I tried to work on it when the only thing people wanted was the one thing I had proven would never work, and the one thing I knew would work was the last thing they wanted.

So in the end I either do what I think is right or move on to something where I get fewer arguments. Last time, I just closed the file and moved to something else.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 10:51 am: Edit

How long has it been since you asked what players wanted next?

If I recall, X2 was on almost everyone's list, but more often than not, it was at the bottom of those same lists.

It's a lot like those lists people fill out for what people want the Senate and Congress to work on. Climate change and environment make many lists, but Voters want the economy and jobs and defense taken care of first.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 06:45 pm: Edit

Been a while, but every survey/poll we ever did about what players wanted produced bad information that was worse than taking a wild guess. The number of people responding is too small a sample of the number of customers out there.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 07:26 pm: Edit

True, when you think about how much SFU is out there, and how much is in the works, there is a lot that players could want.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 07:28 pm: Edit

As far quality of data is concerned, you have decades worth of sales data. Seems like you already have a good idea of what your customer base is willing to buy.

Too bad it will not satisfy the most vocal voices demanding this module or that particular supplement or the widget game aid.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 07:31 pm: Edit

It would be on the list of to do at some time.

All good

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 08:01 pm: Edit

It will get done, but I have two projects on my desk this week (neither of which will die easily) and ACTASF2 next week (or the week after).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Many things you would assume to be true aren't, or at least aren't that simple.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 11:40 pm: Edit

Well, ADB has its own constraints, but I'll share my personal opinion - which is that I eagerly await X2. The trade wars and (presumably a subsequent supplement to X2 which details the Xorkaliens) would complete the SFU history as it's been laid out over the decades. I, personally, would LOVE to see that supplement come out sooner rather than later.

But, I will continue to wait patiently.

(As an aside, I'd also love to see the remaining F&E supplements updated and the Warbook produced, but that's probably even MORE work and further down the line - but one can hope.)

-T

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 11:47 pm: Edit

I also await whatever SVC decides to put into X2.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 11:52 pm: Edit

I have only played in the later Years limited times, I am very interested in what will be in SFU going forward.