As the guy who started the LDR thread.

My thoughts as to why to place the conduit to the LMC there was based the Andro's destruction of the LDR, they placed it there because the at peace, comparatively lax LDR forces missed it, wiping out the LDR also served to protect that path, IF it is decided by SVC that, that is where one was.

If the Lyran Empire wants the Dark Star County back, they will have it. Keep in mind that in F&E 2010 they have the fourth largest economy, the Klingons is bigger, but they have to keep significant forces facing the Federation. Furthermore, the Lyrans had very few, if any, significant infrastructure damage during the General War. The only reason they might allow the LDR to stay free is if neither the Klingons nor the Hydrans take it over.

The reason for leaving LDR space independent is to preserve the Empire's status quo, both the Enemy's Blood and Foremost Duchies remain at their current power levels. By leaving the LDR successor state independent, it gives a place for the various Klingon, Hydran, Lyran, and ISC non-conformists a place to go. It also gives us an interesting statelet to add to the rich tapestry of SFU history. Like Switzerland, it only works as long as they remain "not worth the effort" to conquer, if they become a problem, they will become an ex-State. A Pirate Kingdom would be such a problem.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 08:34 am: Edit

If the LDR economy is as ruined as you all are saying then it would take a lot of money and work to get it up and running. That would I am sue take a strong leader. A Lyran Admiral/Hero from the general war and Andro war. As I believe that most of the population are Lyrans.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 09:08 am: Edit

Good point.

Which takes us back to the issue of just how much damage the Andromedans did to the individual worlds of the L.D.R.

The spectrum is large, but shall we consider three different levels?

Total destruction, Genocide of the populations. Longest time required to return on map Major and Minor worlds to the G.W. level production. Decades? A century or more?

50% destruction, worlds devastated. 50% of population killed. Time to recover? Years, but probably less than a decade? Best guess? Anarchy, no functioning government on any world attacked by the Andromedans.

Decimated. Normal destruction, pattern already covered by the existing rules published in F& E. if it is option three, then it logically follows that rebuilding of the shipyards already possible under the existing rules. ( honestly, unless SVC tells us different, I would assume the third option and existing rules do not apply to the L.D.R., we have been told the L.D.R. Was destroyed. If recovery were possible under existing rules, then the L.D.R. Would have survived.

So what was the situation? Total destruction? Or enough to topple the existing government but some percentage of the people survived?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 09:20 am: Edit

One further comment: if the second option listed above pertains, then the pirate Kingdoms theme is viable. Why? Because with no functioning government no coordinated defense.

That means whole planetary populations of educated technically proficient individuals available to be exploited by opportunistic Orion Pirates.

Heck. An undefended world? A vanilla small freighter with a single phaser 3 would hold a decisive military strategic and tactical control of the planet. With a transporter and some boarding parties, there is no one and no place safe from attack. Petrick talked about that situation on the B.B.S. years ago. It functionally is what happened in Somalia and the rise of the Warlords in the real world in the 1990's.

The L.D.R. Could devolve into an ungovernable mess of petty fiefdoms that no sane government would come within 500 parsecs of.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 10:20 am: Edit

More likely the Lyran central government would step in and simply take over - and the L.D.R. is no more, even if the people who live there are descendants of that organization.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 12:47 pm: Edit

I think Ted Fay's take on this is the most likely outcome - the remains of the LDR get re-absorbed into the Lyran Empire.

Possibly the Klingons or Hydrans might try to grab a bit of the territory, but the Lyrans have the inside track, I think.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 02:11 pm: Edit

But is the Lyran Central Government in a position to move on the LDR?

If yes, then why did they let the LDR break away in the first place?

Correct me if I am wrong here, but wasn't it politics? The provinces did not want to see any of their own members double their wealth and become a threat...same with the emporer. No one wanted that much power concentrated in ne persons control.

What changed after the defeat of the L.D.R. That suddenly makes it alright to change the balance of power in the Lyran Empire?

Personally I don't care if Ted and Alan have the right view or not. I would prefer that it be consistent with the existing published background.

Is that too much to ask for?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 02:18 pm: Edit

There is some data in the LDR R-section of Module X1R and the Fall of Demorak campaign from Module C3A which may of relevance to this discussion.

In the years running up to the Andromedan conquest, the "grand political experiment" of the Lyran Democratic Republic was well into the process of breaking down; it had become a "Republic" in name only. The leadership had, by that time, accrued to themselves the same prerogatives (and corruptions) as the nobles in the Lyran Star Empire, but were careful to maintain the trappings of democratic rule.

Also, the ongoing strain of remaining on what was tantamount to a wartime economic footing was causing significant strain on the Republic's civilian economy. The "Lyran in the street" was faced with various shortages, while the leadership skimmed off the profits of various hardware exports (such as excess gunboat and workboat production) to the Lyran Empire (while again taking care to present an image of solidarity with the Republic's citizenry).

On top of this, the aforementioned corruption was causing problems militarily, as well as both economically and politically. A combination of myopia and misplaced hubris shaped the role which the Presidium played in its allocation of resources and military assets, while all too few high-ranking members of the admiralty could (or chose to) step back from their political connections to grasp the more serious threats to the Republic's continued existence.

In fairness, it should be noted that the Andromedans had a key advantage in their favour when launching the fateful assault on Demorak; one which they may not have been able to call upon had the Darwin's discoveries been made a year, or even six months, sooner.

But in any event, the Republic's populace was badly shattered by the Andromedan conquest (and in being the only people in the Alpha Octant to suffer such a fate, in the "standard" timeline at least). The Republic will not rise from its ashes through the end of recorded history in Y225 - and it may well never do so afterwards.

-----

But, of course, all of his still leaves the question of what happens to them post-liberation.

It is noted in the LDR history article from Captain's Log #44 and Away Team Log that the Lyran Empire does re-absorb the area. But, again, there are many ways in which this could manifest - and how it might trigger a fresh round of intrigue among the Lyran nobility (and, for that matter, among the Empire's neighbours).

As noted above, the Enemy's Blood Duke would certainly like to have "his" Dark Star County back. This would not sit well with either the King-Emperor or the Foremost Duke, both of whom would prefer to keep a lid on the power of the Enemy's Blood Duchy. The Hydrans would not be keen to see Enemy's Blood get that province back either, not least since it extends the length of the border it would have to defend (or attack) in the event of renewed hostilities.

But in any event, regardless of which Lyran noble is parachuted in to try and run the territory - and who he is being backed by - there is no guarantee that, even in its enervated state, the former LDR populace would respond well to being placed under feudal control once again. (Not that they'd necessarily be in a position to say or do anything about it, but still). And with the fate of the Zehrk clan in mind, there may be few noble families wiling to take on such a "poisoned chalice".

Hence my earlier suggestion regarding a Special Administrative Region. In creating such a thing, the King-Emperor would both be able to side-step the issue of installing a new noble ruler (by allowing the survivors on Demorak a limited form of self-government) and pre-empt the creation of a new and potentially hostile county armed force (by deploying forces loyal to him directly to garrison the province, under the control of one of his Marshals). Plus both the Hydrans and Klingons may approve of such a concept, if it meant that the SAR was "open for business" once the re-building process gets underway.

While I don't wish to veer into real-life matters, I should note that the point of the "one country, two systems" setup in this universe was to account for the reintegration of less "socialist" territories into their "mother country" without discarding their pre-existing forms of government. And while the two current SARs were former colonial holdings, the concept has also been suggested as a means of incorporating what is seen by the formulating government as a "renegade province". (Said "renegade province" has its own ideas about that, of course.) And by the time the concept of "one country, two systems" was being coined, the leadership of said country had set aside its more "revolutionary" roots and embraced a more market-oriented outlook.

To go back to the SFU, the King-Emperors had not been overly concerned with the nature of the LDR's government, so long as it served their purposes (and reined in its attempts to "export revolution" across the Empire at large). With the opportunity presented by the "liberation" of Demorak from Andromedan occupation, perhaps the reigning King-Emperor might well decide that "it doesn't matter whether a Lyran is black-striped or white-striped, as long as it catches its prey" - and so long as the military garrison of this SAR is firmly under his direct control.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 02:18 pm: Edit

The Lyrans always wanted that province back. It may make internal political problems, but hey, that's very much a Lyran thing.

Anyway, I don't think that it is so far inconsistent with the internal background that it is impossible. The Lyrans were interested in conquest and expanding their empire, I think it's more of a reach that they WOULDN'T take the opportunity to reacquire their wayward province.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 02:23 pm: Edit

The LDR revolted over the mismanagement and oppressiveness of the local hereditary ruler of the Dark Star County.

While they had a somewhat contentious relations with the Enemy's Blood Duchy. The Foremost Duchy and in particular the Silver Moon County supported them in the war in Y154. Also for many years, probably even through the end of the LDR officers would attend the Military Academies of the Lyran Empire (minus the Enemy's Blood) to include the National Academy in the Capital.

With the exchange of ship design, both the CWS and LTT are LDR designs, and the use of LDR repair facilities during the war meant that the governments were at least on speaking terms at the national level.

By Kosta Michalopoulos (Kosmic) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Following the destruction of the General War, ISC Pacification and Andromedan invasion, I would imagine many areas on the outskirts of the various empires would have a net negative economic value, i.e. they produce nothing for the military economy and require certain expenditures to be made there without anything to show for it for a long time. For example, if the Romulans ever want to get Remus back in operation (and they should have to for political reasons) in a campaign setting, they need to spend a minimum number of EPs (5? 10?) a turn for many turns (10? 15? 20?) in order to rebuild it. Perhaps it could be done the way you build the B10: each turn you can spend 5EPs and roll a die, or spend 10EPs to get two rolls. Once the cumulative total reaches X (60? 80? 100?), it is back in fully functional condition. If you don't spend anything, you roll a die and subtract that from the cumulative total.

So certain territories would be a poisoned chalice to hold, to some extent. I specifically think of Remus and the LDR in these terms, but there may be other areas that would have a corresponding cost to rebuild. Maybe the Feds need to bribe the Orion enclave to reamin part of the Federation? Just consider the cost of the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe after WW2.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 02:58 pm: Edit

Literally, there was a major change in dynamic.

People are dead. And I do not mean the citizens of the LDR, I mean the King Emperor and the Enemy's Blood Duke.

Dynamics within the empire have changed, and in the new dynamic at the end of the Andromedan War it could very easily be that the new King Emperor is closer to the new Enemy's Blood Duke.

You have to keep in mind that the situation that existed when the LDR was born is no longer relevant. There is also a lot of bad blood between Foremost Duchy and the former LDR (while Foremost supported LDR independence, it has had reason to regret that due to the efforts of the LDR to "export" the revolution into other counties during its existence).

Despite the recently concluded Andromedan War, the "game of thrones" within the Lyran Empire is continuing, and returning the (burned out) Dark Star (former LDR) county to the control of the current Enemy's Blood Duke could be seen by the current King Emperor as a means of cementing a new relationship with that Duke against the current Red Claw Duke (who is also not the same person who held the ducal throne when the General War began).

You could really reach, and give the "Restored Dark Star County" to the descendants of the noble house driven into exile in the WYN Cluster (they would thus be far enough away from their original home county, and the Cluster, not to be allied with or make common cause with them, would have the requisite "bloodline" so that you are not elevating a commoner, and have reasons to be loyal to their new Duke. Of course that does not mean they will not be "Zehrks" themselves. There is also the advantage that they would probably not have any lingering loyalty to the Red Claw Duchy as part of that "game of thrones," plus the benefit that the newly installed Count would not be from the family of the Enemy's Blood Duke, Foremost Duke, or the King Emperor.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 03:01 pm: Edit

The Dark Star County killed their incredibly incompetent leader. Unlike most Lyran coups no new noble took his place and they set up a democratic republic. They stayed loyal to the Empire for a time. The Duke did not like this 'experiment' in his Duchy and set in motion a plan to conquer the area and set up a relative as the new Count.

The Emperor did not want the precedent of a Duke putting relatives in as Counts as the Counts acted as a hedge on any Duke becoming too powerful. In the short civil war that followed the Democratic Dark Star county had enough support to force the Duke to withdraw.

Later the County seceded. Long term the Lyran Empire wanted them to return but were not interested in outright conquest. During the Four Powers War the LDR offered shipyard support for the Lyran Empire until the Hydrans offered gatling phaser technology as a bribe to get them to break off the deal.

The LDR stayed neutral in the General War, offered little resistance to the ISC Pacification, and the Andromedans defeated them as a test against the weakest of the Alpha Octant powers.

The Lyrans and the LDR never had an adversarial relationship. They clashed occasionally but there was no desire to slaughter their own kind. Even in their superiority clashes some scenarios give penalties for destroying opposing ships in Lyran vs. LDR battles. They never trusted each other entirely. There were discussions of the LDS sending their one CA to the capitol to be refitted as a DN but they were worried the Lyrans might not give it back. As others have mentioned they did pioneer some designs: the CWS, the LTT, and the trimaran MP built off the police ship.

I suspect it just became a regular county under the Enemy's Blood Duchy but without the Duke choosing their ruler. Pick someone popular or innocuous and call it done. Most of the unique character of the LDR would be lost with the end of gatling phaser shipments and no need for the overgunned short range ships they built.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 03:19 pm: Edit

If it were to remain a regular county under Enemy's Blood Duchy, wouldn't that contradict the Trade Wars change in the border hexes and provinces?

If all other empires in the quadrant lost direct control of the borders (at least as far as direct control is concerned) except the Lyrans, that would mean the Lyrans become significantly more powerful than the Klingons, hydransFederation, Kzintis etc who all had to surrender sovereignty of the border hexes.

That would be a significant change to the published history.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Jon Murdock:

"No new noble took his place" because as part of the revolt the Zehrk family was slaughtered "to the last cub." There was no hereditary successor to the County seat. It is doubtful if even someone "illegitimate" would have survived the blood letting.

But that is the reason the Seat was empty.

At the time this was going on, the King Emperor suspected that the Enemy's Blood Duke had his eye on the Throne, which was the reason the King Emperor opposed the placement of the Enemy's Blood Duke's son as the new ruler of the county.

Royal politics at the time was driven very much by keeping the Enemy's Blood Duchy from gaining power.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 04:02 pm: Edit

I knew the family was wiped out. I meant that no rival family was behind the revolt to claim the county like in other county revolts.

One other revolt is referenced in one of the Captain's Log stories when the WYN acquired gatling phasers for their fleet they were also trying to get a revolt going in a neighboring county to restore a displaced noble. Presumably those fleeing from the original successful revolt brought the WYN their one Lyran DD.

I assumed that some Lyran civil warfare is within the family while others involve a family rising up to displace another. But I could be wrong.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 04:29 pm: Edit

It is true that there is plenty of scope for the balance of power within Lyran space to be quite different in Y205 relative to Y168 (or Y186), and how that might affect the fate of the former LDR province. For one thing, I'd be curious to see what the long-term impact of all those "new" provinces which Far Stars gained during the course of the General War, as noted in (625.542) from the F&E ISC War rulebook. [As noted in a post in this thread, the Far Stars Duke would be sitting on no less than 18 provinces by the onset of the ISC Pacification, unless I've mis-calculated the "sliding scale" laid out in (505.21) from the F&E 2010 rulebook.]

For that matter, the Kzinti Baron might be in a very interesting position also, not least given the amount of damage inflicted on the "on-map" holdings of his rival Pentarchal nobles.

But then, it remains to be seen just what kind of state those off-map provinces (and those of other empires with access to off-map zones) might be in by the end of the Andromedan War - and how difficult it might be to convert them from "emergency wartime" colonies into more fully settled entities.

By Alan W. Kerr (Awkerr) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 04:42 pm: Edit

OK, how about this scenario...

The Hydrans step-up to help the LDR recover.
The LDR was the closest the Hydrans had to a "bordering ally" and they *like* having that buffer zone along their border.

Multiple times in their history, the Hydrans have been forced back to (or nearly back to) the Old Colonies. Reports of the LDR worlds being decimated by the Andromedans struck a "strangely empathetic feeling" in many Hydrans. Hydrans, at least, had the *hope* of getting to the Old Colonies - the LDR had *nowhere* to run. Post Operation Unity, they realized that *all* the empires were "truly exhausted" from constant war and hoped that would give them *time* to rebuild. They also realized that they were the only two empires to have been "completely overrun" by an invading "force". They both knew how that felt. They both needed to rebuild. They both "needed" each other.

One of the first gestures to the LDR, was that one of the corporations that built phasers-Gs, sent a shipment of 8 P-Gs to the LDR so that they could start to rebuild their navy. Not as altruistic as it seemed, that corporation was planning on further profit from trade... but that required a more stable LDR.

The Hydrans even put forth the idea of retrying the concept of "sharing" some oxy-nitrogen and methane systems in each others space (see Timeline Y66). The Hydrans didn't want a repeat of the Klingon situation so they proceeded *very slowly* with only a few systems at first. It was, for the most part, a success this time. There were a few incidents, but both empires just wanted to rebuild and recover faster than their larger neighbors. The level of cooperation and trust grew and a fairly friendly and stable alliance was created.

Two years later, hoping ease tensions with the Lyran Empire, the LDR government declared that the Lyran Emperor (and the Royal Family) were to be a "Figurehead Monarchy" for the LDR. This would be similar to how Canada and Australia consider Queen Elisabeth to be a "Figurehead Monarch" for their countries. This arrangement worked out extremely well for the LDR. The Lyran Emperor (and all succeeding Emperors) could technically claim that he still "ruled" over *all* of the Lyran Empire.

One unexpected effect of the declaration was that it kept the Klingons from overt harassment of the LDR. The LDR citizens were, technically, still the Emperor's subjects. ...and due to the "flawed" start of the General War, even decades later, Klingons are still very wary of "angry Lyran Emperors".

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 05:26 pm: Edit

History already says that during the Andromedan War all of the empires were pretty much driven back to final defenses around their core (capital) regions.

That does not mean that every colony or significant world outside of the core regions was captured, or even attacked, by the Andromedans (if for no other reason than that in reality there simply were not enough Andromedan ships to accomplish such a thing). For the most part, the Andromedan war was "economic disruption."

The "General War" was in terms of territory far more destructive (if for no other reason than that the various empires had far more ships and resources than the Andromedans in fact had).

Of all of the empires, the least damaged by the General War were (in order) The Andromedans, the Inter-Stellar Concordium, the Lyran Democratic Republic, the Jindarian Caravans, the Orion Enclave, the WYN Star Cluster, the Lyran Star Empire, the Gorn Confederation, the Vudar Enclave, the Seltorian Tribunal, the Klingon Empire, the Tholian Holdfast, the United Federation of Planets, the Romulan Star Empire, the Kzinti Hegemony, and the Hydran Star Kingdom. It is doubtful the Hydrans after also being driven to defend their core worlds by the Andromedans, and having continued fighting the Vudar over two of their provinces before the Inter-Stellar Concordium arrived, and then the Andromedans, would have had the resources to spare for the former LDR. The Lyran Star Empire literally only ever had space occupied by the Andromedans. The Hydrans (at the start of their involvement in the General War) did attack the Enemy's Blood Duchy, but did not penetrate very far, nor hold their gains for more than a few months. The Kzintis may have raided into the Red Claw Duchy some in the closing months of the General War, but were pretty much distracted by the WYN Star Cluster's invasion, and that leaves the Lyran Star Empire largely intact when the Andromedans show up. The Klingons suffered attacks across their borders from both the Kzinti and Federation fronts, at least one of those offensives reached their core areas (resulting in the commitment of the incomplete B10 Inviolable if I recall correctly to action and destruction). The Federation had roughly 60% of its pre-General War space overrun and occupied for several years by the Coalition, and so on.

So, logically, the only empires with resources to "assist" the Dark Star County are the Lyrans and Klingons. It does not matter how much the Hydrans might want to (for political reasons) be involved, they simply would lack the resources and have far more of their own space and citizenry in need of such succor as the Hydran government could make available.

The Hydrans just literally do not make sense "stepping up" under the existing history.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 05:50 pm: Edit

Just a note that I recall the Invulnerable was so heavily damaged that construction was never resumed. Presumably not actually destroyed.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 06:01 pm: Edit

Nope. I checked. It was Inviolable (it is nice to know that sometimes my memory does actually still work). But yes, it was so heavily damaged that construction was not resumed, not destroyed [cut me some slack, at least I named the right ship, and even if it was not destroyed, never completed is pretty much the same thing ... sheesh (GRIN)].

Invulnerable was never completed (although no mention of the hull being scrapped is made, only that it was never completed). The boom of Invulnerable was completed as a kind of emergency cruiser (since it is pretty close to being an uprated D6 by itself) under the command of Derek "boom boom" Kilgore (a former third officer of the IKV Thunderchild), and destroyed by the Andromedans.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 06:14 pm: Edit

curious.

That the Lyrans and the Klingons were in the best shape to restore the former LDR territories.

One has to wonder, if they had such a capacity available why not use it to conquer the Kzintis? The payoff would be significantly greater, they could always recover the LDR hexes later... and remove the hated kitties from the game board as it were...

Might make a compelling Captains log fiction history thing explaining why the Coalition passed up the chance to eliminate the Kzintis after so many knock downs, the devastation of home worlds during the G.W., the ISC incursion, the Andromedan invasion...they could have vindicated their failure to win the General War by invading and splitting the Hegemony between them.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 06:27 pm: Edit

There are several reasons why the Lyrans (and Klingons?) might prefer to retake the LDR after the Andromedan Invasion.

For one thing, it's easier. Even if they've taken a beating, the Kzinti are still a major empire and the LDR are... virtually incapable of defending themselves at this point - not against a serious fleet. Moreover, after the devastation they have suffered, many LDR inhabitants might welcome, or at least not strenuously resist, reincorporation into the Lyran Empire.

Also, the Federation is in a position to assist the Kzinti if the Lyrans/Klingons reopen hostilities. They can't really help the LDR.

And the Lyrans would tend to look on LDR space as something that is rightfully "theirs", just as the Klingons regard Tholian space as being "theirs". But unlike the Tholians, the LDR does not possess awesome defense technology.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 06:32 pm: Edit

It's a simple matter of territory. There is viable territory there. There are three powers to claim it: Lyrans, Klingons, and Hydrans, all of which survived to the 2X era.

Historically it was Lyran. The Klingons are likely to respect that claim. The Hydrans are too weak to make their own claim. Hence, whoever won the Game of Lyran Thrones, would in all probability take back the LDR and award it to some crony who helped the current king-emperor into power (whoever that is).

IMHO it's pretty straightforward from an overall/strategic perspective. The details would, of course, be interesting!

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

Do not misread what was said. What was said is that the Lyrans Empire by virtue of the fact that no significant portion of their space was at any time occupied by hostile forces, or fought over, means that their base was the most intact.

That does not mean that they could have attacked the Kzintis, who with Federation assistance drove them, and the Klingons, out of their territory by the end of the General War.

The Lyran Empire by the end of the General War had less Infrastructure to rebuild than any of the Western Powers except the LDR, WYN Cluster, and arguable the Vudar Enclave (the Seltorians arguably were still building theirs when the ISC came a calling).

The Klingons did not have as much of their space occupied or ravaged during the General War, but there were several significant operations in their space (starting with the Hydran Expedition near the start of the war, and several offensives into their space from Kzinti and Federation Space at its end, at least one of which, as noted, penetrated to the core worlds of the empire).

The upshot is simply that as a portion of its economy, the Lyrans (before the Andromedan War) suffered the least internal damage (lost ships, sure, but no major production facilities were attacked or damaged, no major resource centers were directly affected by the war). As a portion of their economy they can make much more available because they have much less internal rebuilding to do compared to everyone else except the noted empires. The Gorns arguably suffered more simply because the fighting was on their own frontier from the start of their involvement in the General War until its end. Unlike the Lyrans who were pretty much immune to raids by the Hydrans or Kzintis until near the war's end, the Gorns were repeatedly attacked by the Romulans, and if no Romulan offensive ever threatened the Gorn homeworlds, they did do damage to the space between the frontier and those worlds.