This "race" (really a political entity) was first published in Nexus 11 as part of a mini-campaign revolving around the Landfalk system (nested between Klingon and Hydran space). The Bargantines, not unlike the Vudar, have very few units, but utilize their secret weapon; the Exodrone. The Bargaintines, historically, gained their independence in around year 185, after which time they fought the Hydrans in the aforementioned campaign.

Current order of battle
1 x D6B
1 x AuxCV
2 X F5Bs
6 X WYN sm Aux Cruisers
2 X Freighters

The Bargantines utilize 3 types of fighters
F1; speed 6 armed shuttles
F2; essentially a standard attack shuttle
F3; The "heavy" attack shuttle that carries a single Exodrone.

The purpose of this thread is to explore the possibility of expanding this small "race", and to possibly give the Bargantines more ships and/or other equipment that would make them a viable minor race within SFB.

Ideas?

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 07:14 pm: Edit

One question, for the uninitiated, what's an Exodrone?

What chance does a drone using race have against Ph-gs?

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 07:37 pm: Edit

Exodrone:
Speed; 32
Endurance (unkown); presume 3 turns (ATG not withstanding)
Warhead; 50
Damage; 12
Spaces; 2

I hope this also answers your second question

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 08:06 pm: Edit

While I'm not sure if the Bargantines really "deserve" being fleshed out as an actual race, I definately would like to see a 6-12 scenario Bargantine Campaign, including fleet actions, and Module M assaults. It might even be a good intro mechanism for Star Fleet Assault(?) - the space marine combat system previewed in P6.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Andy, that's a great idea. You just need to find out in what F&E Hex Landfalk is.

Anyway, I should've been more clear on my idea. Sorry about that. I thought maybe the Bargantines could get a few minor ships from other races, of from unpublished races. Kind of like a potpouri fleet. I imagined maybe an Orion CR, a Magellenic or two, and perhaps even a NGG unit (maybe a Helgardian).

I'm just tossing out ideas here, and really have no notion

What do you suggest for a campaign?

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Not knowing a thing about their background from the Nexus article, here is a thought:

"The Rise and Fall of the Bargantine _________ (Empire, Enclave, Republic, whatever)"

A campaign highlighting the major military actions in the history of this minor race. Could include scenarios where the Bargantine's "obtain" their ships, liberate their planet, establish themselves as an independant race, and their ultimate defeat at the hands of somebody.

Early scenarios would give them the opportunity to assemble a fleet of ships through capture and purchase (with an obvious note as to what the historical fleet turned out to be). The fleet obtained would be used in the remainder of the campaign, with the amount of repairs allowed between each scenario varying dependant on the amount of time between events and the repair ability the Bargantines possess at the time.

Along the lines of Andy's idea, I could imagine several scenarios highlighting advanced BP/Ground combat on ships, bases, planets between the Bargantines and their former masters.

Such a project would be a lot of fun, and I'd personally love to work on it, but, as I said, I know zero about what is in the Nexus article.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 09:15 pm: Edit

BTW, I thought the nascent Bargentine Empire LOST the campaign ...

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Jeremy; that sounds like an idea. Bargantines themselves are implied to be a smattering of Klingon subject races (perhaps a few Klingons too) who rebelled, and declared the Bargantine system to be independent. The article says they also laid claim to the Landfalk system, around which the published campaign revolves. The campaign idea was inspired from the Falklands' War between Argentina and the U.K. a few years before. Hence the Exocet SFB drone equivalent in the game; the idea being to simulate a "shipwreck" missile attack. Anyway, there's lots of "ground" combat and boarding actions, so you could have a field day with your ideas.

Mike; I have the Nexus issue in front of me, and there's no historical outcome mentioned. Was the historical outcome brought up in a Starletter?

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 10:02 pm: Edit

I dug through my pile of old SFB stuff and found a copy of Nexus 11. I didn't even know I had the thing. I'll give the Bargantine stuff a read and see if I have any more ideas.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 12:02 am: Edit

The campaign was also printed in Commander's Update 2. Other scenarios were updated therein but I don't know if the Bargentine were changed any. No listed victor in the 1988 version though.

New units: Depends on how closely one wants to emulate the historical analogue. You could give the Bargentine's a single Hydran Hunter with the ability to launch Exodrones to match the British Type 42's in Argentine service.

For other units: The small patrol craft run by the PNA are probably best equated with Klingon Interceptors while the Esporas building during the war are most equivalent to a G1L. Most of the remaining historical Argentine units discarded in the 70's translate to various EY survivors (D4, multiple F4s and E1s).

Maybe let the Bargentine have a small auxilary scout.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Maybe the Bargantines could refit another D6 to a CV, or something?

By Charles E. Gray (Cgray45) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 05:25 pm: Edit

With EY out, I would say that most 3rd tier powers should have mostly EY era ships with some refits-- in fact, I could see some "new build" EY ships, from those worlds who absolutely had to have a ship, or wanted some indiginous shipbuilding capability, but couldn't put together a modern shipyard. There's precedent for that in the real world, IMO.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Charles:

By the time of the Bargentine campaign, the D6 is old enough. By 185, I doubt anyone has the plans to a D4 much less than an actual D4.

The generations are EY -> MY -> GW. I agree that these "backwater" areas would use ships one generation back, but by 185 that generation would be MY, not EY. Therefore, the D6B is the appropriate ship to be used. (Along with the F5B.)

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Like Mike says, the Bargantine campaign is post-GW, so the EY ships are going to be scrap or irrelevant, good for occasional convoy escort and nothing else.

I can certainly see them getting a bunch of obsolescent stuff, like interceptors, old fighters, E4s and so on.

Whilst the Bargies could have tried to become independent earlier on, they couldn't have managed it before the Klinks became economically exhausted by 18 years of war. So there's not really much scope for setting it before then.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 08:12 pm: Edit

This entire idea might go well in R8, which is supposed to contain the "national guard" ships. Given the background, wouldn't that be what the Bargantines had? (The only problem is that I'm not sure of the primary era of the R8 guard ships--they could still be pre-GW/GW and thus too early, but then you're looking for obsolete stuff anyways...).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 08:22 pm: Edit

By the way, the Bargantine War is an Olivette Roche melodrama, her way of "commenting" on the British-Falkland-Argentine war without really doing so. Which means that the Bargantines and the Exodrone are purely fictional constructs.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 08:47 pm: Edit

SVC; Curses! Foiled again! So, exactly when did this LITTLE revelation come about?

You can't imagine how angry this makes me

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Petrick and I stumbled on it in the tapes this afternoon. There was an article in Star Fleet Gazette which referred to the works of Olivette Roche and gave some examples of her pure fiction. The Bargantine campaign was one of the examples given.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 07:35 am: Edit

SVC. Even if relagated to "Simulator Status" I think that, if done well, it would make for a very fun Campaign series (some squadron battles, some duels, fighter actions, marine assaults). Heck, it might even make a cool OpV scenario.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 10:58 am: Edit

I think it would be a fun campaign too.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:27 am: Edit

I had orginally assumed that the Bargentines fell into the "official in Commanders, but 'forgotten' in Captains" category.

But then you located Leebeeyah on the F&E map! If *they* are official, then how can the Bargentines not be?

By Jonathan Perry (Jonathan_Perry) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 01:56 pm: Edit

It's not difficult to figure out why the Exodrone couldn't be made official. As to why the Bargentines can't be official . . . ?

If the Vudar were able to throw off the yoke, and survive, then it isn't hard to imagine a race/entity that could throw off the yoke - and fail. No way that little rag-tag fleet survives. Entirely likely they would have been "saved" by the ISC, then quickly crushed by the Andros. So sad.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 07:52 pm: Edit

How about this? How about a Klingon Civil war after the GW, but just prior to both Andro and ISC incursions?

I can envision small pocket states cropping up, and needing to be quelled by the exhausted Klingon DSF.

Just a thought.

Otherwise this whole Olivette Roche thing has me infuriated beyond belief

Seriously, the Exodrone used to be my favorite weapon of all time in the entire scheme of things-SFB. I had visions of springing it on unsuspecting SFBers during a campaign or something. Ah well. Maybe someday.

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 03:20 pm: Edit

I'm still fuming over this. Just thought I'd share

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 03:31 pm: Edit

As with many things, there is always a kernel of truth in every fantasy. Doubtless there were many "tiny statelettes" on many post-GW borders, and maybe one of them, somewhere, had a vague similarity to what Olivette wrote. She probably read a dozen such accounts on many borders and synthesized them all into the imaginary Bargantines, so there was probably some similar race (or, more likely, several with various aspects which all got rolled into the Bargantines). How many TV shows make up countries where they send their spies or undercover operatives, countries that borrow some aspects of real countries? (think Nikita and Soldier of Fortune)

But the exodrone must remain pure fantasy.