Charles Lucky Coleman:

In the case of skids, pods refers to the pods used by freighters.

You cannot attach a skid to a battle pod or a PFT pod or a repair pod that a fleet tug would move around. There is a specific "civilian pod" (R1.34) and skids can be attached to it. But Skids cannot be attached to the pods used by navy tugs (even if a salvage tug or harbor tug could be used to move such a pod), and they cannot be added to mobile bases, not to the two basic pods (as you noted) or to the added pods.

By Charles "Lucky" Coleman (Mwmiyd) on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Thanks Steve

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, April 20, 2018 - 10:54 pm: Edit

? re webs and anchor ships.
Interesting situation currently happening and a quick reply will be most appreciated ! :>)
Nasty Thol CA enters a globular web but gets tractored by wonderful Peladine CC ship, Pel CC at 18, Thol CA at 8 .
Next imp, Pel CC ship drags CA but CA is still in globular web, strength 16.

The question is this, can the CA declare itself to be an anchor now while moving at pseudo speed 8 thus breaking the tractor and assuming anchor duties at speed 21 once trac is released ?

G10.1161 is being declared but does G10.1167 over ride this ?
Thanks.
Cheers
Frank

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Friday, April 20, 2018 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Frank upon further review and studying your logs. There is an issue with the idea that you could not tractor him or keep him tractored. It does not say that a tractor is broken when he becomes a web anchor. It says you cannot tractor a valid web anchor. You tractored him on 24. That comes after changing web anchor status. On 25, he wanted to change to web anchor status. But he is tractored. Nothing I see says your tractor is voided. So because he is tractored already, he cannot become a valid web anchor.

(G10.1163) A valid web anchor point (ship, shuttle, PF, asteroid, web anchor buoy) in a web hex cannot be tractored, even in a zero-strength web (G10.24). A unit serving as an anchor cannot be displaced (G18.671). See (G16.682) for an anchor in stasis.

So while we also have G10.1167, I see this as it isnt possible for him to become a web anchor while tractored.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, April 20, 2018 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Charles,
I think the web anchor breaks the trac automatically just like 2 tractored ships about to enter a nebula hex, the trac is lost immediately as tracs do not function in webs.

I think G10.1167 is the key, to serve as an anchor, the ship cannot move so for the Thol CA to declare anchor status, it has to be at speed 0 1st so therefore it has to declare ED, get to speed 0 in 2 imps and then it can legally declare itself to be an anchor ?
Cheers

Frank

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 02:12 pm: Edit

But the problem is tracs function fine in webs...they cant reach through a web to the other side.This is more like launching a WW...the trac hits before the WW can launch...so you cannot launch. In this case...he could have declared he was an anchor....then you could not traq him. But he didnt till after you had him in trac. Which required him to wait till the next imp before he could. So since he was traced...and legally traced in the web he should not be able to become an anchor. Of course add in, he cannot increase or decrease the web size and that makes it even more proof that he cannot be a valid anchor.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 03:09 pm: Edit

good points.

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 04:37 pm: Edit

Rule (G10.597) establishes that a moving Tholian ship could suffer deceleration damage if it adopted anchor status.

There is a specific rule that a ship held in a tractor beam cannot launch shuttles or fighters (G7.941) [excluding seeking shuttles (G7.9432)]. There is a specific rule that if a ship performing erratic maneuvers is grabbed in a tractor it is no longer erratic unless released (G7.922). There is no rule saying that being held in a tractor beam prevents such a held ship from changing its status from able to pass through webs to unable to pass through webs, or vice versa, or from adopting web anchor status.

But note that if a moving Tholian ship drops its web pass status, or adopts anchor status, it is subject to damage and possible breakdown under (G10.59).

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 09:06 pm: Edit

Ok Steve but...where in the rules does it say that a previously tractored Tholian which decides to become an anchor voids the tractor? The rule says you cannot tractor a ship that is a valid anchor. It does not say that a ship already tractored voids the tractor. I see that as being different.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Also it ignores (G10.1167) A ship serving as a web anchor cannot move except to lay, extend, or shorten the web.

At least in this specific case no ship that is moving should be able to become an anchor.

You have a globular web of 6 web pieces forming a circle. So just how can a ship be a valid anchor when it is moving...and unable to perform a single exception that is required to be an anchor? It cannot shorten the web. It cannot lay anymore web and it cannot extend the web.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 07:39 am: Edit

SPP,
Sounds like the Thol CA can declare Anchor Status while at high speeds and being tractored.
Couple more questions if I may as I have never really played against the Tholian's web
thingy. :>)

First, the CA did roll for break down and survived it, it also took 4 damage on her #1 formula was 16 [ not sure where this figure came from ? ] - 12 = 4.

What happens to the tractor now ?
Is it broken and if so, is the CA speed back to 20 or is it 0 due to becoming an anchor ?
If the answer is speed 0, it should be able to launch a WW immediately or next imp ?

If the tractor link is not broken, what happens to the Pel CC when next scheduled to move ?
Does it move [pseudo speed 18 ] or is the move ignored because the tractor is not broken but an anchored ship cannot be moved ?
Some thing like a ship tractored to a base effect?

Thanks for your help, your answers may generate more questions from me ? :>)

Cheers
Frank

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 10:12 am: Edit

Further to tractor question, I do not think a move can be ignored so when the Pel CC is next scheduled to move [ if tractor link is not broken due to Anchor Status ], would the tractor link then be broken and if so, what speed would the CC move at, pseudo 18 or plotted speed 30 ?

Thanks again.
Cheers
Frank

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 11:58 am: Edit

Well assuming the tractor cannot be maintained then there is no tractor and the next imp you are back to 30. Status change happens after movement.

I made a point in the campaign about my interpretation of the idea that a ships which cannot be tractored as in get tractored...can still have a tractor maintained after it had been applied.

I believe that an example of this sort of exists. A Base with stabilizers can launch a WW. A WW makes the launching unit untractable because it confuses electronics and so the tractor cannot lock onto it. But the base that was tractored does not have the tractor broken.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 01:45 pm: Edit

I'm of the belief the tractor is maintained since it was established prior to Anchor Status declaration but will be broken immediately the next time the Pel CC moves.

Thing is, what speed is the Thol CA at now ?
Stays at pseudo speed 8 since trac is not broken yet then up to speed 20 once trac is broken or is it at speed 0 immediately ?

Cheers
Frank

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Well according to the rules...as far as I can tell..it would still be at 8. Until the trac is broken. Assuming it would be broken.

The obvious idea behind the rule is to make it where the anchor is locked into the web so it cannot be pulled out thus causing the web to collapse. In most cases this would be obvious as to what happens. A tholian sitting like a spider at the heart of its web cannot be removed by tractor.

In this case it gets murky in my opinion because of all the unusual factors involved. But if the rule is as soon as the Tholian declares that it is an anchor...and just that declaration for what ever obscure reason used makes the tractor broken. Then next imp. You go back to full and so does he.

The other possibility is the rule was designed like this to allow a Tholian to be removed from the web if you grabbed it at just the right moment. Had the power that would pull it free. And were in the right spot. As in able to drag it out of the web and not just move it along inside the web.

Anyway...I just do not see it braking the tractor. I see it as if a tholian declares properly...the tractor can never be applied. If not...like a WW...the ship can be tractored and the rest is immaterial.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 06:49 pm: Edit

Well my two cents . I can see no reason why by the rules. That the CA can not become a web anchor. There is no speed restriction for a ship becoming a anchor in construction. There is also nothing in there about speed for a ship becoming a anchor in a preexisting globular web. In fact there is nothing in the rules for that. Now once the ship moves it can no longer be a anchor. You can not extend a globular web once it is complete. There can be a anchor but it will not do anything if it is removed are destroyed.

So the ship anchors itself into the web. There is no tractor rules saying anything about a ship acting as a web anchor. The web rules say a anchor can not be tractored. Not that it breaks a existing tractor.

A anchor can not move except to shorten are lengthen a web.

So the CA anchors itself to the web are anchors the web. Takes Damage from deceleration and roles for breakdown. I think that the advanced tech of the web locking the ship breaks the tractor as a anchor can not be tarctored So i think the tractor is broken and the CA is still moving at speed. Just like any ship caught in the web would be. However once the CA moves it can not be a anchor.. but that would be so many impulses latter and should allow the CA to Emer Decl. This would work the same way as a cast web using a moving ship for a anchor point.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 07:42 pm: Edit

I can't point out a rule that really makes it clear one way or the other; I think SPP needs to rule on this one.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Sunday, April 22, 2018 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Greg...I agree pretty much with your line of reasoning. But there is nothing in the rules that says a pre-existing tractor is broken. Other than as an example a fighter HET which is a violent direction shift. Now...if we go strictly by that. Then if the ship does have to roll for breakdown...that could be enough to cause a tractor to be broken. But still we really need some simple tractor rule about what breaks a tractor. Ships doing a Het of course does not break a tractor. So....

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:10 am: Edit

You do understand even if the CA breaks the tractor. Speed is then what it was before the tractor. As i can find no rule saying the web stops a moving ship. Just holds it in place until enough movement points are generated. He can not WW and can not change anchor status for 8 impulses. He can announce ED but at this range the torps if launched get there first. Note if the tractor holds. Then both ships are stuck as the anchor can not be moved.

My feeling is that the stronger tracter of the web over loads the tractor from the ship and breaks it.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 10:13 am: Edit

Tractor beam rules... the quantum mechanics of the SFU!

I am not looking at rules here but, logically, I would think that a ship cannot become an "anchor" until it is at speed 0. You are "declaring" the ship to be anchoring the web, and to do that it must be at speed 0. So to be declared an anchor, the ship would need to be at speed 0 before it actually attains "anchor" status, even if the rules allow for you to declare an intent to adopt anchor status while you are still moving.

Again, not looking at the rules cause mine are very old, but logically I would think this would be the case.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 10:30 am: Edit

Marc...while very reasonable...a ship can indeed be an anchor and be moving. The term anchor is a bit different than would be normally considered. As an anchor...a ship can move at what ever speed it can achieve based on the power it has to lay web or shorten web. Which is where rule G10.1167 comes into play.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 10:32 am: Edit

And Greg a ship specifically...or a unit...or a seeker...does not stop moving in a web. They maintain speed...accumulate turn requirements and anything else a moving ship does with the exception that they simply do not leave the hex they are in until they have expended enough movement to equal web strength +1 at which point the leave the web hex they are in.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Carroll correct... and that was what i was saying. The ship is still moving just held in the web.
Now what will the powers that be say?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Guys:

Rule (G10.597) specifically says that a ship "would be subject to damage if it adopted anchor status." Since for that to happen, the ship must be in a web of a strength of 12 or more, and moving at a speed of 12 or more (if the web is weaker, or the ship is moving slower no damage results) the ship can be moving Speed 12 or faster and adopt anchor status, and thus could be moving at any speed and adopt anchor status at the risk of damage and breakdown.

The inevitable interaction is that if a Tholian ship able to adopt anchor status does so, the tractor is broken. There is as has been noted a specific rule that a Tholian ship that has adopted anchor status cannot be tractored (G10.1163), there is no rule saying a tractor prevents a Tholian ship in a web hex from adopting anchor status.

It is one of those things when fighting Tholians on ground of their choosing.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Web Anchor, (G10.1161), (G10.1163), (G10.1167). Tractor beams can be broken by (G7.122).