Module S3: Monster Manual
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development: Module S3: Monster Manual
  Subtopic Posts   Updated
Archive through April 16, 2003  23   04/16 04:06pm
Archive through April 17, 2003  17   04/17 02:43pm
Archive through April 20, 2003  19   04/20 07:01pm
Archive through July 04, 2003  24   07/04 10:03am
Archive through July 14, 2003  2   07/14 09:54pm
Archive through August 02, 2003  8   08/02 05:39pm
Archive through January 12, 2004  19   01/12 04:06pm
Archive through April 25, 2004  23   04/25 05:35pm
Archive through June 10, 2004  18   06/10 08:01pm
By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 08:24 pm: Edit

How about giving it two MCIDS (E6.0)? You could add SSD boxes for them (360o).

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 01:12 am: Edit

MCIDS might prove to be too strong. It is just that powerful. I think the best Juggernaut improvement would be to replace the 360 degree phasers with option mounts that can be player selected with a number of defensive systems (ADDs or phasers or something else). That should help catch up with all the improvements to weapons over the past 20 years.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 09:00 am: Edit

Replace the 360s with Ph-Gs. No new weapons charts needed, no change to power curve, increased drone defense.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 12:45 pm: Edit

My first thought is that the Juggernaught is what it is and if it was to venture where the puny one aren't so puny anymore then too bad. On the other hand it seems reasonable to me that the Juggernaught should have some ability to modify itself. I think Andy has the problem answered. Very simple.

The option mount idea also fits this, self modification, idea.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Just give the Juggernaught a FRAX AFD refit, replacing all P-3s with AFDs, and be done with it.

LOL

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 08:51 pm: Edit

The PG bra is a nice fix. A couple of the special sensors also helps in EW thick enviroments.

my 2 cents.

By Spencer Rathbun (Spencerr) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:06 am: Edit

I saw somebody had a race with creators long gone that could build a small enclave. Sounds like the race I'm trying to design. They are a genetically engineered weapon race from another galaxy. Basically grown from vats then pluncked in ships and sent off to fight the enemy. They have instincts which tell them what they are supposed to do when they get to the alpha quadrant. Something like: Find enemy race. Collect all available ships and attack to the best of your ability.

So they wander the alpha quadrant looking for the enemy race, but it has died out. So they are a small nuicience for everybody until they find one last automated space station left over by the enemy race. They kill it and then go into phase two which is find a couple undefended planets and build up a ship yard.

Is your race anything like that?

By Phil Shanton (Mxslade) on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 08:41 pm: Edit

I think I said this somewhere in this topic before, but it bears repeating. The articles that Steve Petrick has done in Captain's Log about the various Monsters are excellent. I hope these will be reprinted in Monster Manual. Anyone who is writing scenarios for this or creating new monsters should pay attention to these articles.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, January 20, 2018 - 01:35 pm: Edit

Question:

Is there enough material to assemble a Module S-3?

If you read through the archived material above, you will find many different ideas of just what and how such a module should be structured. I suspect many people will have ideas to offer, but just to restart the ball rolling, my suggestions are:

The heart of the module should be monsters. I have no idea how many unpublished proposals are sitting in a drawer at ADB... (and to be honest, there might not be any.) but lets assume there are some. I doubt there will be enough to fill a 100+ page booklet similar to existing S1 or S2 modules.

It would be interesting if there were one or even two F&E monster campaigns, for example:

A) Juggernaught Invasion. One empires experience in repelling a fleet of different sized juggernauts.
B) monster Mania campaign. What happens to the Federation when all of the neighbors release a host of monsters into Fed Space?

I would like to see a Star Fleet Marine segment where a monster infested Federation Major World must be purged of an invading menace (Gremlins? Zombies? Fralli?) a SFM campaign scenario intended to free the oppressed Federation citizens from whatever it is that threatens the worlds population. (Extra points awarded if the Fralli can be freed from whatever it was that enslaved them in the first place!)

New terrain?

A monster campaign might be fun... let the players play the monsters in a reverse Captains campaign. Play a set series of scenarios until the climax where the player attacks the home world of whatever empire the campaign is sited in.

Possibly a GURPS PD tie in?

Lots of options.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 12:04 am: Edit

I have 3 (IIRC) new terrain types on file. If SVC ever wants me to resubmit them, I have them fairly ready for him & SPP to do their magic on.

Prairie Dog Space
Slip & Slide Space
Vortexes.

As for monsters; EACH monster probably would take 4 pages to describe completely (on average).

And Juggernauts would take over a dozen. iIRC, they have the original, a cruiser, destroyer & frigate. Do they have a CL? Several kinds of freighter? Mobile base? Shrike squadron?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 12:28 am: Edit

They probably need a production dock for each class as well.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 03:14 pm: Edit

just reading thru the archives, Chuck Stong suggested Stellar Threat Files... if I recall correctly there were several things in SSJ#1 that might not fit anywhere else. Monster Manual scenario book #3 might be the only way those ideas could get published in a regular module.

By Russ Simkins (Madcowak) on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 - 12:34 am: Edit

Quote:

Question:

Is there enough material to assemble a Module S-3?
...
I doubt there will be enough to fill a 100+ page booklet similar to existing S1 or S2 modules.



I can easily think of material to fill up a 96 page booklet and SFB is overdue for some new content:
1st - give it a centerpiece fiction/scenario. Not sure what SVCs plans are but he has a 24-ish page fiction centered on a new monster that he has said he would like to use. If there is some other fiction ready for CL53 than this monster module would be a fantastic home for the kraken. Had to cut the story to the bone to get into a CL's limited space so I would be thrilled to put a little more meat into the story-line. Already has scenario rules for the monster (story action generated using those rules) so several more pages there.
Some more new monsters... No idea what ADB has on hand but there too, I hope to contribute. My little personal mission is to create a set of what I call advanced single-player monsters designed from the beginning to be more challenging, fun, and replayable for veteran players of SFB than the existing classic SFB critters. It has been a lot of work but I'm closing in on getting another one sent to ADB soon and have the core concepts for 5-6 more very unique robo-opponents. I would think there are plenty of other players with interesting ideas for monsters that we can fill up another 15-20 pages for this product with new scenario rules.

Advanced scenarios=more complexity=more rules=more pages.

Currently there are no published monster scenario rules that by themselves take up four pages. Four pages is too much complexity. I know, I did that with the kraken. It's too much without breaking some of it out into other rules. But I do have some ideas that will add to the scenarios without dragging them down with mind-numbing pages of rules.
It has been said that scenario modules don't sell very well. I contend that the way scenarios are presented could be improved, making them more compelling to play and thus more compelling to buy. We humans are emotional creatures and it is hard to capture our attention with dry facts and rules. Yet that's how most scenarios are presented. Just the facts. On the other hand, if you give someone a full fiction story, you get drawn in to the characters and events but since the story tells you how it all turns out, I personally still don't feel strongly compelled to play out the attached scenario. So why not go halfway? A short piece of setup fiction that sets the stakes for wanting to play and win that scenario. Make players feel like there are people on that world in hex#2201. Save them. For all of my monsters I'll be submitting a short 1-4 page setup fiction piece intended to draw the player in, set up the circumstances of the battle to come but stops short of hand-holding you through the action, and certainly not telling how it turns out. You have to play the scenario to find that out. I've already tried this out and I'm convinced it works.
I know, you're already thinking this sounds nice but writing fiction is hard and this will require too much additional time and effort. Nope. Since you don't have to work out all the intricacies of the action or best of all, write an ending, it writes really, really easy. I spent month after month working on the kraken story (over three years) but I can write a satisfying setup fiction in less than a day and really have fun doing it.
So, there's the possibility of 1-4 more pages for every scenario. More pages of content? - check.

The classic monsters are SFU canon and can't be touched but my early focus was on creating improved versions of these beloved oldies that are more advanced but don't replace the original. The planet crusher is a constructed weapon right? Who says they didn't build more than one model? Are there other species of space eels? hmm... My point is I've been doing a lot of thinking about monsters and in trying to come up with really new ways of changing things up, I've stumbled upon lots of ideas that could be applicable to more than just monster, a.k.a. new rules for monsters. I personally have at least 12 pages of new monster related rules to finalize and submit. I've tossed out much, much more that didn't make playing SFB against monsters more fun or didn't add something I felt was needed. If only half pass muster even as a good idea that needs ADB massaging, that's still more pages of new content. Again, I won't believe I'm the only person with some ideas that will eat pages there.

The entire (SM) library could get a little TLC and would make a nice test-bed for the Master Scenario Book concept. I haven't put any thought into what could truly be done to clean/pretty them up but I would love to have the scenarios matched up next to the applicable SPP's Captain Log monster article. Boatload more pages.

Any SP or SL scenario monsters that might be worthy of achieving official SM-ness?

For my own use in playing against monsters, I just refuse to do so without building a quick SSD for each. Even if the monster itself isn't very complex, there is something strangely satisfying about filling in those damage boxes. I do the same for required sci-info too. The real reason I make SSDs is to put all the darn tables you need to refer to in one place. It is a real pain in the rear to jump back and forth between the MCIDS section, the Sci-Info tables, and the SM rules with special weapon tables specific to that monster. Give the people monster SSDs for goodness sake. Gobs more pages. Do I need to keep going?
My original 3" binder for my monster project turned into a three volume set. We can fill 100 pages easy.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 - 05:36 pm: Edit

nice idea i would buy it :)

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Question: Is there enough material to do a module S-3?

Like the rest of you, I would LOVE to see a module S-3, but I seriously doubt it'd ever happen.

Here's why...

In a number of Captain's Logs, both SVC and SPP have told us about running out of good new material for scenarios, and how neither one of them will try to foist off a "Ship 'X' and Ship 'Y' meet in Terrain 'Z' and have a fight."

(That, by the way, is one of MANY things I really appreciate and respect the two of them for.)

If they're having trouble getting new scenario ideas for Captain's Log, for my two cents worth, I would seriously doubt they'll ever find themselves having enough scenarios on file for another purely scenarios book.

Would I like to see more monsters? Oh heck yeah! Love to! So would my friends, Werewolf, Zombie, Vampire, and Oversized Japanese City Stomping Animal. :)

Seriously, I know I can't speak for our friends in Amarillo, but among us, I don't think we'll see an S-3 unless we come up with material for it. I'm trying to (and the Steves will tell you that I'm VERY trying), and while they're supportive of my efforts, I know that their standards are such that they need a LOT better quality than I can do.

Still, they're happy when we share with them and they love to share our (good) stuff with all the other fans out there.

By Russ Simkins (Madcowak) on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Yeah, I agree that in a scenario module format like S3 it would be hard to come up with enough new monster scenarios to fill with any quality at all. So make it a more kitchen sink product with anything monster related. I'm certainly good with including content for the other product lines too, if that's what it takes. I'm just not working on anything outside of SFB myself.
If we can get 5-10 solid new monster scenarios, some new monster specific rules, some new fiction, and fill it with compilation, there's a product.
I don't expect ADB to be doing much of the content creation, just some analysis, critique, and possibly some suggestions on player's work.
If anyone has monster content, I'd be more than happy to help with playtest, design, ideas - anything monster related. Can we get a little monster playtest group going? I'm limited to solo monsters as I have no local group to work with. I'll offer up my stuff to the table to anyone offering their mostly formed ideas too.

I have a couple things far enough along to possibly share like:

A highly customizable improved MCIDS system that could be used on any monster, even the classics. Can change the gameplay in many good ways.

Currently 2 very unique monsters are ready enough for playtest.

Someday soon category (not quite ready)...
Have the core principals for a few more scenario monsters but I've tried to limit my work on them until I eat what's on my plate.
Advanced How to Defeat Monster rules. Far more options so you can't sandbag and with some unusual selections.
A system that is sort of a cross between a good/bad karma and Monopoly's Chance cards. I have very high hopes for this even though it might sound a little off the reservation for SFB. Could possibly be used for non-monster scenarios but wouldn't be as plausible. It is sci-info based.
A boarding party system for monster parasites that can be more than just a nuisance and (I think) is more enjoyable than the stock marine systems. Well, this one is sort of ready for testing now.

My one disclaimer is I am horrible at writing SFB legal-eze. I can get the across idea of the rules, I just don't even try to put numbers in front of them until I absolutely have to. Thank heaven for Steve Petrick.

Feel free to email me, anyone, if you want to exchange monster material (don't ask if you aren't bringing something to the party).

As far as playtesting goes, I'm extremely detailed in how I go about it. Logging it from 1st impressions, the tactics I plan to try on first run thru, intricate records of the gameplay, thoughts, likes, dislikes, etc. All with a constructive, positive attitude. I just want to see monsters get their day.

By Jay Gustason (Jay20) on Wednesday, December 02, 2020 - 10:22 am: Edit

Planet killer 2.0

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, December 02, 2020 - 05:45 pm: Edit

I'd include new/ odd kinds of terrain. Like "standing gravity waves," or my favorite Vortexes. I have at least 3 in draft form.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, December 03, 2020 - 10:41 am: Edit

I’d add an auto kill rule. Self destruction of a CA size class 3 cruiser (or larger) in the FA arc (hex relative, to demonstrate a “down the throat shot into the open maul of the monster”.)

To make it more challenging, any potential damage on shield facings 2 thru 6 does not count. Only damage thru shield facing #1 counts.

Might want to offer an option if the captain can find a way to save his crew (or most of them...) if he has to sacrifice his ship. (Perhaps a victory point incentive.)

It makes the sucker a lot more difficult.

By Jay Gustason (Jay20) on Thursday, December 03, 2020 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Ancient giant monster statue robot metal gear

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, December 03, 2020 - 07:37 pm: Edit

Perhaps rules for the Space Whales that got tamed in Omega? Alunda?

Add a Message


This is a private posting area. A valid username and password combination is required to post messages to this discussion.
Username:  
Password:

Administrator's Control Panel -- Board Moderators Only
Administer Page | Delete Conversation | Close Conversation | Move Conversation