Archive through August 13, 2018
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Rules Questions:
SFB Rules Q&A:
Archive through August 13, 2018
I did mention it (J4.885), they are exceptions to the rule (empire specific), as Richard has noted.
All good
I have information on the Hiver, very interesting critters (I have the module Omega 1 Rulebook, with Barb-1 fighters), It is not until later (in module Omega 2 reinforcements) when the Hivers get Barb-2 that can deploy overloaded sting torpedoes.
All good
SKA "Gaul Auxiliary Fritz", SKA "Agustus", RH-K "Emperor", SUP-K w/ G-IIs and G-SFs "Gladius", WER "Ballista Pompeii", KE "Hotel California", KVUL "Death By Fire", NH-K "Sun Demon Hawk", FFH-K "Blazing Hawk", FFH-K "High Noon Hawk" within five hexes of the tug, heading C, speed 5.
Is this a legal fleet under S.8? I think there is one two many CC in the fleet for the coverage of CAs?
Leaving this for SPP...
KVUL "Death By Fire" ALLOWED AS THE DREADNOUGHT (S8.331).
WHILE THESE SHIPS ARE "COMMAND CRUISERS" (S8.361), ALL ARE CONSIDERED TO BE HEAVY BATTLECRUISERS (S8.333), SO ONLY ONE (1) CAN BE IN THE BATTLE FORCE.
RH-K "Emperor",
SUP-K w/ G-IIs and G-SFs "Gladius",
NH-K "Sun Demon Hawk",
FASTSHIPS ARE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN ONE (1) PER BATTLE FORCE (S8.57). RULE (S8.361) ALLOWS THE PRESENCE OF ONE SUCH SHIP TO FILL OUT A SQUADRON, IT DOES NOT ALLOW A SQUADRON TO BE COMPOSED OF TWO OR THREE SUCH SHIPS, NOR DOES IT ALLOW A BATTLE FORCE TO BE COMPOSED OF TWO SQUADRONS OR THREE SQUADRONS EACH CONTAINING ONE SUCH SHIP.
FFH-K "Blazing Hawk",
FFH-K "High Noon Hawk".
KING EAGLES ARE TREATED AS HEAVY CRUISERS (S8.36).
KE "Hotel California",
THIS SHIP IS SIMPLY CONSIDERED TO BE A HEAVY CRUISER.
WER "Ballista Pompeii",
SKYHAWK-As ARE NEITHER SIMILAR HULL TYPES (S8.361), NOR THE NEXT SMALLER HULL TYPE (S8.367), AND SO CANNOT BE USED AS THE BASIS TO JUSTIFY THE PRESENCE OF A COMMAND CRUISER.
SKA "Gaul Auxiliary Fritz",
SKA "Agustus",
THE BATTLE FORCE CAN LEGITIMATELY CONSIST OF SEVEN SHIPS:
KVUL "Death By Fire" [the one allowed unit of Size Class 2 (S8.331).]
RH-K "Emperor", OR SUP-K w/ G-IIs and G-SFs "Gladius", OR NH-K "Sun Demon Hawk" [the one heavy battlecruiser allowed in addition to the size class 2 unit, this ship does not need an accompanying squadron (S8.333).]
KE "Hotel California" [Considered a heavy cruiser under (S8.36) and for this purpose considered the first of the three ships making up the heavy cruiser squadron (S8.361), but could also be the Squadron leader in its own right.]
WER "Ballista Pompeii" (as a heavy cruiser).
FFH-K "Blazing Hawk", OR FFH-K "High Noon Hawk" [Only one of these can appear under (S8.361) and (S8.57), the ship is considered to be the second of the two ships making up the squadron, not by rule, just that I am putting it as the second of the two "follower ships."]
SKA "Gaul Auxiliary Fritz",
SKA "Agustus",
BUT OF THE REMAINING THREE SHIPS, ONE OF THE FASTHAWKS AND TWO OF THE "HEAVY BATTLECRUISERS" HAVE TO BE CONVERTED TO A NON-FASTHAWK AND NON-HEAVY BATTLECRUISERS OR BE OMITTED FROM THE BATTLE FORCE.
Answered by SPP.
Well as the owner of above said fleet...I am crying to see so many ships disallowed. Oh well...I did not want to win that fight anyway since they were sent out...and nothing can be swapped out now that they have arrived. In the future I will keep in mind the problem of BCH rated ships.
On a side note...I was under the impression I could have one of them as the fleet commander. And use another for the WE KE...which I thought were Heavy Cruisers not BCH. Missed that rule.
So I lose a FFH and 2 Command Cruisers. That will make Greg happy lol.
And now a separate question please.
Was having a...discussion about Scatter Packs. And Free Traders. I was saying that a Drone A armed Free trader can have a scatter pack...and at WS 2 or 3 have it up and ready and fully loaded as in with 6 of the 8 drone spaces aboard it. I was told that only drones in storage could be used and that if no COs were spent to buy 2 more drones it could only have the 4 spaces of drones available in storage since all ships start with fully loaded drone racks.
I felt that you could unload a drone rack to make this possible. He says no...only after the scenario starts can you then start unloading it and it has to be out of service.
Charles Carroll:
I am afraid your opponent is correct. Not even an E4 can have drones unloaded from its drone rack before the start of the scenario unless allowed by special scenario rule. (Note an E4 is used because it is a small warship with a single four-space drone rack.)
To add to Charles Carroll preceding question, can a ship with a single drone rack A and single reload, have a SP loaded with 6 space of drones at the start of the scenario under S4.12 when at WS 2 or 3 by using the stockpile drones and using 2 of the drones from the A rack or is it limited to a 4 space load which are the available stockpile? Ref: (FD7.212)
Marcel Trahan:
As noted previously, you cannot start a scenario with drones already unloaded from a drone rack unless there is a special scenario rule allowing it.
You can, as was mentioned in the earlier question, purchase additional drones with Commander's Option points, and those would also be reload drones, and could be used to fully load the scatter-pack.
Again, you cannot start a scenario with a drone rack partly unloaded unless a special scenario rule allows it.
Charles carroll:
I am afraid that (S8.333) says you can have one (1) heavy battlecruiser, and it can be in addition to a dreadnought or a battleship. It does not say you can have a heavy battlecruiser and a second heavy battlecruiser provided the second heavy battlcruiser is used as a squadron leader.
Sorry.
Charles Carroll:
I do not know what rules you are working under, i.e., you have said these are the ships you "sent out" seems to imply that you are operating under some kind of campaign. If so, surely your opponent can be prevailed upon to allow reasonable substitutions, e.g., replace each of the ships in question with FireHawk-Ks. It is not like you were trying to pull a fast one, you sent the ships out in Good Faith that you were adhering to the Patrol Scenario rules.
Thanks Steve its ok...and yeah it is a campaign...but the reality is I am just not that good with all the S rules because I have not been playing a campaign.
Greg is a fair and honorable guy lol. Even losing these ships. We are each now at 7 Ships. He probably has the edge a good bit because he is Paravian and his cruisers are better than the WER and KE. He also has a scout which of course vs plasma is not quite as useful. But My R torps compensate some. So We will give this fight a go...and just see how things go.
I was trying to avoid a fight. So I sent the kitchen sink. Then I thought about it and wondered if I had done it right. I asked a few people and like me they were not aware of the two rules...the one about BCH and the one about Fast FHs. So the thought was it was fine. Greg Naturally asked here. And we got the right answer. Thank you for you for that.
Anyway I will deal with it as all good commanders do and soldier on.
Chuck Carroll
Well to be fair i did not know that they were BCHs just CCs and was thinking he needed the right number of attending ships. Did not think of the fast ships as well.
It does make the battle a bit closer in BPV now CLLa "Karl Bolle ", CLa "Otto Fruhner", CWM "Karl Menckhoff", FFSa "Paul Wenzel", CAa "Werner Voss", CAa "Hans Rolfes", DDa "DD-A2", DNa "DN-001" within five hexes of the tug, heading F, speed 5.
Gregory S. Flusche:
The Romulans are somewhat odd on a number of points. They have ships dubbed "Command Cruisers" that are "heavy battlecruisers" by rule [specifically (S8.333)], and so limited in their use. They also have a "command cruiser" that is treated as simply a "heavy cruiser" in the King Eagle (S8.36).
If you retained "the King Eagle exception," treated the "Hawk Series" Command Cruisers as just Command Cruisers of almost any other empire, then the force would look like:
Vulture.
Cruiser Squadron #1
RoyalHawk
King Eagle
War Eagle
Cruiser Squadron #2
SuperHawk
FastHawk
Destroyer Squadron
SkyHawk-A
SkyHawk-A.
But you will note that it is still stuck with the only one Fast Cruiser limit.
If you eliminated the Fast Cruiser limit, then the force would be legal, as (S8.361) requires that you cannot have a loose command cruiser unless all other command cruisers have their own two followers, thus
Vulture
Cruiser Squadron #1
RoyalHawk
King Eagle,
War Eagle
Cruiser Squadron #2
SuperHawk
FastHawk
FastHawk
Cruiser Squadron #3
NovaHawk
Destroyer Squadron
SkyHawk-A
SkyHawk-A.
But the fact is that the NovaHawk, SuperHawk, and RoyalHawk are all rule defined (S8.333) as Heavy Battlecruisers, and the rule allows no more than one heavy battlecruiser in a battle force.
For example, a Kzinti Force of a DN, BCH, CC, CC, BC, BF, DW, DW would be legal. It has one DN [(S8.331) and (S8.363)], one BCH (S8.333), has a CC leading the BC (S8.361) and the BF [(S8.361) and (S8.57)], and since the first CC has both of its followers, the second CC is allowed (S8.361), and of course the DWs are also just part of the force at that point.
I fine reading all the S8 rules a few times helps, Romulans are a tough one to work out.
In the early years there is a bolt-only Plasma-F torpedo. If for some reason the unit survived to Y165 would it be eligible to upgrade the launcher to use the (FP14.0) Plasma Carronade firing mode?
Might I inquire as to why this question even arises and just what are you attempting to accomplish?
Question arose in a campaign being run which did not list G3 what ever that is....as being used. Is there anywhere in the regular rules the ability for Hydrans to have Stinger 1s with Gs and HBs and EW in 168? Or as the normal rules seem to state that happens in 170 and 172 for EW.
Charles carroll:
I am at home, but Module G3 is the consolidated annexes, and has an updated annex #4, which covers the Stinger-1 variants you are asking about. I think the original article was in Captain's Log #21, which will also have the data. I am at home so I am relying on memory and that might not be the right Captain's Log. But the data in terms of ship (fighter) descriptions is included and further expanded in the Hydran Master Starship Book.
Again off the top of my head, I think Y172 is when electronic warfare fighters become available. Prior to that date multi-role shuttles could stand-in, and of course still could afterwards. Carriers could still lend to their squadrons before then. Y170 may be the year electronic warfare pods became available.
I will check when I get to the office tomorrow.
I do not have the G3 module with updated annex #4 (so I have no info on the Helbore on hydran fighters earlier than Y170).
EW pods in module J (J11.2) Y168, and Y165 for the Jammer pod (J11.28) (just ECM).
Y172 for EW Hydran fighters.
Ken:
Your question is an interesting one. I can't answer officially, but with your indulgence, I'd like to state something that (at least to me) seems common sense...
The Plasma Carronade capability was introduced as a refit to existing plasma torpedoes. By the same token, the ability of the early "Bolt Only" type plasma... Launchers... to fire seeking torpedoes was (effectively) a refit (I think).
This may be just the way my miswired brain works, but to me, it seems that installing the later refit on a ship that had NOT had the
earlier, more established refit, is something that, if done at all, would only be done on a single ship that was only meant to serve as a test platform and would not be sent into combat except under the MOST unusual of circumstances.
Also, with the rather tight-fisted nature of the Gorn legislature, keeping an antique ship in such a limited role (testbed ship effectively with no additional capabilites) is something they'd regard as a waste of limited funds.
For this reason, while the question you posed was interesting, I don't think such a ship would actually exist.
There is one potential caveat to all that; the simulator.
If your opponent is amenable to it, you can always use a ship set up that way there. 
(Mind you, this is just my opinion, and seeing as how I'm not an employee of ADB, Inc., this can NOT be taken as an official position in ANY way, shape, or form...)
Stinger-1 (standard), squadron service in Y134.
Stinger-1+ (Stinger-1 with better engines, i.e., Speed 15), squadron service in Y168.
Stinger-1g (Stinger-1 with phaser-G replacing phaser-3), squadron service in Y168.
Stinger-1+g (Stinger-1 with better engines, i.e., Speed 15 and a phaser-G in place of the phaser-3), squadron service in Y170.
Stinger-1F (Stinger-1 with no fusion beams, only the phaser-3), squadron service in Y134.
Stinger-1F+ (Stinger-1F with better engines, i.e., Speed 15), squadron service in Y170.
Stinger-1Fg (Stinger-1F with phaser-G replacing phaser-3), squadron service in Y170.
Stinger-1F+g (Stinger-1F with better engines, i.e., Speed 15 and a phaser-G in place of the phaser-3), squadron service in Y170.
Stinger-1H (Stinger-1 with hellbore in place of fusion beams), squadron service in Y168.
Stinger-1H+ (Stinger-1H with better engines, i.e., Speed 15), squadron service in Y170.
Stinger-1Hg (Stinger-1H with phaser-G replacing phaser-3), squadron service in Y170.
Stinger-1H+g (Stinger-1H with better engines, i.e., Speed 15 and a phaser-G in place of the phaser-3), squadron service in Y170.
Stinger-1E (Stinger-1 electronic warfare fighter), squadron service in Y172.
Stinger-1E+ (Stinger-1E with better engines, i.e., Speed 15), squadron service in Y173.
Stinger-1Eg (Stinger-1E with phaser-G replacing phaser-3), squadron service in Y173.
Stinger-1E+g (Stinger-1E with better engines, i.e., Speed 15 and a phaser-G in place of the phaser-3), squadron service in Y174.
Thanks Steve