Steve,

Just validating that a unit with a Bolt only Plasma-F is not eligible for the carronade upgrade.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 12:01 am: Edit

Steve one last question...probably on Hydran fighters. Since we have established they can have HB Stinger 1s in 168 which is the year we are in. Using COs...which should be none...to simply swap a ST-1 for a ST-1H. Is there a limit to the number of fighters you can swap for this? And is there a requirement for the ship to have X number of fighters before you can swap to a HB fighter? As in could a SR Exploration ship with two ST-1s swap both over to HB. Or an LN with 4 St-1s swap for HB and if so how many?

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 12:23 am: Edit

Charles,

There is a nice table for the Stingers in CL#21 (pg 43).

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 12:26 am: Edit

If it were me in the campaign, I'd suggest that such fighters would be limited in deployment just to ships that have spots for hellbore fighters in the first place.

I'd suspect that such stinger one variants were probably less common than the stinger two equivalent variants and might limit them in a campaign in some way.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 12:30 am: Edit

Charles Carroll:

Deployment of hellbore armed fighters is restricted.

The number of fighters with hellbores is pretty much defined by the SSD. If the SSD has hellbore fighters, you can use Stinger-1H fighters in those slots instead of Stinger-H fighters.

You can replace Stinger-H fighters with Stinger-2 fighters, but you cannot replace Stinger-2 fighters with Stinger-H fighters.

In short a Ranger cruiser can have nine fighters, and all nine could be Stinger-2s, or eight could be Stinger-2s and one a Stinger-H, or seven could be Stinger-2s and two of them Stinger-Hs, or six could be Stinger-2s, two Stinger-Hs, and the ninth a Stinger-E. But it cannot have more Stinger-Hs.

A Lancer can never have Stinger-Hs. A Horseman also can never have Stinger-Hs either, and so on.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 12:31 am: Edit

Richard B. Eitzen:

That is already the rule.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 12:56 am: Edit

That was my belief Steve but wasn't sure. Thanks again.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 06:58 pm: Edit

The operative rule on replacing Stinger-H facilities with Stinger-2 facilities and vice versa is (J4.8931).

Replacing Stinger-H with Stinger-2 (or Stinger-1); allowed.

Replacing Stinger-2 (or Stinger-1) with Stinger-H; not allowed.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Charles Carroll:

I have amended the post on the Stinger-1 fighter variants above (13 August). I had previously left off the Stinger-1+ (Y168), Stinger-1g (Y168), and Stinger-1+g (Y170), but have edited them in.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Ken Kazinski said:

Steve,

Just validating that a unit with a Bolt only Plasma-F is not eligible for the carronade upgrade.

Ken Kazinski:

Again, I am unsure what you are trying to accomplish.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Ok Steve dealing with Hydrans again lol...since we are experiencing some...technical question issues with some aspects of Hydran...and what it means for Hydrans as far as the True Carrier rules.

Can say Dragoon...or a Lord Marshall which are not classified as being able to carry heavy fighters buy Deck Crews with COs? Or are the only ships able to the ones in the list which are listed as true carriers?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 06:55 pm: Edit

Charles Carroll:

Only "true" carriers can purchase extra deck crews; see Note #2 under Crew and Marines in Annex #6 and (J4.816).

Hydran "true" carriers are generally listed under (R9.R4). Most other Hydran ships with fighters are "hybrid ships" and while they have many of the capabilities of "true carriers" (e.g., able to lend electronic warfare to their squadrons) they are not carriers. This matters a lot when you think of building a battle force, as the fighters on "true carriers" count against the "three squadron limit" while the fighters on "hybrid carriers" do not. By the same token the fighters on "casual carriers" (such as the WYN Pocket Battleship) do count against the fighter limit.

So you can have a legal fleet of a Trooper (12 fighters) with its NAC (six fighters) and AH (no fighters) counting as one squadron of 12 fighters as a carrier group, with a cruiser squadron of a Lord Marshal (six fighters) and two Rangers (18 fighters), and an Iron Duke (24 fighters) as the other two squadrons of fighters (now three total) with a NAC (six fighters) and two AH (no fighters) with an Overlord (six fighters) with an NSC (six fighters) for a total of 84 fighters, 36 being from the two carriers.

Note: It is entirely possible to assemble a Hydran fleet with even more fighters legally, the above was just a fast assembly off the top of my head. Replacing the AHs with DWAs would add six more fighters.

But, again, Hybrid ships are not true carriers and not eligible to purchase additional deck crews.

By jim howard (Noseybonk) on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 05:02 pm: Edit

change the AH's to DWE's for even more fighter goodness.

By jim howard (Noseybonk) on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 05:03 pm: Edit

doh!, you said that at the bottom

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 06:48 pm: Edit

As another example:

Paladin DN (12xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Ranger CA (9xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Ranger CA (9xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Ranger CA (9xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Ranger CA (9xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Ranger CA (9xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Horseman CW (6xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Horseman CW (6xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Horseman CW (6xfighters) with Mech Link refit and 2xHarriers
Lancer DD (4xfighters)
Lancer DD (4xfighters)
Lancer DD (4xfighters)
New Scout Cruiser NSC (6xfighters)

The above is a perfectly legal Hydran fleet being led by a dreadnought and including a "battle group" (the three Horsemen and the three Lancers) which lets the total force be 13 ships (including the "free scout"). The 18 Harrier PFs are the "three flotillas" allowed under the fighter and PF limit and not impacted by the 93 fighters carried by the ships.

Of course part of it is you are dealing with me, and I cannot imagine a fleet without the smaller ships (light cruisers and destroyers), and would probably have frigates were I to assemble a fleet, but this was to again look at the fighter situation.

Note that only 12 of the Fighters could be Stinger-Hs (two each on the DN and the CAs), and six could be Stinger-E (same ships). All the rest would be Stinger-2s (or Stinger-1s). Of course, as the battle progressed, the Hydran player could land surviving fighters on the larger ships to amalgamate them into squadrons for more efficient lending of electronic warfare.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 10:07 pm: Edit

While I'm finding this discussion of hybrid carriers, formal carriers, casual carriers, and fighter squadron limits VERY interesting, I'd like to branch from it for a bit, if I may.

While I know SVC isn't that fond of mega-fighters, my VERY first thought when reading about them was how much they'd improve Hydran combat capabilities (Stinger-2s double charging their fusion beams at range ten, then going in for a point blank run with the third charge on each fusion beam)...

TBH: I don't know if it was something I really saw in the rules someplace OR if it's just my intellectual desire to be fair, but I have it in my mind that there's a limit to the number of mega-fighters that can be deployed; no more than one non-oversized squadron that has to be deployed from either a true carrier (NOT a hybrid or casual carrier), hangar bay modules on a base, or a True Carrier Ground Base.

Is this actually a rule, or have I taken one too many baseball bats to the head?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 11:12 pm: Edit

I fear this one will have to wait until I get to the office and can do some research. Sorry.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 06:47 am: Edit

Module J2 (J16.0) Megafighters.
(S8.328) Mega packs (megafighters) for all the rules on availability. (most is 12 max megafighters, Federation Hydran 24)

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 10:42 am: Edit

And as a note, (S8.328) is not brief. It runs through five subsections [(S8.3281) through (S8.3285)]. You'll want to read the whole thing (particularly as (S8.3283) notes that heavy fighters and bombers count as two fighter equivalents for purposes of the overall limit).

By jim howard (Noseybonk) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 11:03 am: Edit

they also take up two shuttles (in this case read 2 fighters.) slots, if memory serves me right.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 11:56 am: Edit

Jeffrey George Anderson:

As others have noted, the rule to see is (S8.328).

In some circumstances a Federation force might have 24 fighter equivalents equipped with megapacks, but that requires that 12 of the fighter equivalents be Six F-111s.

The Hydrans can have up to 24 megafighter equivalents, and in some circumstances up to 36, see (S8.3285). For example, in the force I posted you could have 21 megafighters [under the rule, i.e., the 12 on the Paladin and nine on one (1) of the Rangers].

Jim Howard:

I fear your memory is in error. A megapack added to a fighter does not increase the fighter's size. A single space fighter with a megapack is still a single space fighter (J16.13).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Put another way, a Hydran force of 1xDN (Paladin), 5xRN (Ranger), 3xHR (Horseman), 3xLN (Lancer), and 1xNSC (New Scout Cruiser) could have:

0 Megafighters (no ship is operating Megafighters).
4 Megafighters (one of the Lancers has Megafighters).
6 Megafighters (one of the Horsemen or the New Scout Cruiser has Megafighters).
8 Megafighters (two of the Lancers have Megafighters).
9 Megafighters (one of the Rangers has Megafighters).
10 Megafighters (one of the Lancers and one of the Horsemen or the New Scout Cruiser have Megafighters).
12 Megafighters (the Paladin or two of the Horsemen or one of the Horsemen and the New Scout Cruiser have Megafighters).
13 Megafighters (one of the Rangers and one of the Lancers have Megafighters).
15 Megafighters (one of the Rangers and one of the Horsemen or the New Scout Cruiser have Megafighters).
16 Megafighters (the Paladin and one of the Lancers have Megafighters).
18 Megafighters (the Paladin and one of the Horsemen or the New Scout Cruiser or two of the Rangers have Megafighters).
or 21 Megafighters (the Paladin and one of the Rangers have Megafighters).

The limit is that a maximum of two (2) of the Hybrid ships in the Fleet can have Megafighters. But it can be any two (or any one, or none) at the option of the Hydran player (given the year of availability, the BPV available, and of course if the group as a whole is allowing the use of Megafighters).

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 04:19 pm: Edit

That's quite a relief!

Twenty one Mega-fighters are bad enough. Ninety three of them? Well, not only would that be NO fun to play AGAINST, how much fun would it REALLY be for the folks playing them...

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Ninety-three fighters in the sky at once? Be happy they don't carry drones. Can you imagine the map? The table would collapse under the weight of the counters.


Garth L. Getgen

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Dunno. I, personally, LOVE big SFB battles - but I'm a pretty rare type. I could see taking such a force against a Kzinti starbase defended by a SSCS-led force. Would be kool.

In best "Tim" voice:

Look at the DRONES, man!!!