Jared Ikeda:

Wayne Douglas Power is correct that is what the ship description for the Demon-3 says, and the Demon-3C is just the "C refit" of the Demon-3. So a Demon-3 has the same drone launch capabilities as a Z-Y or TAAS. However, as it is in the Klingon Simulator you can basically decide if it will operate as a TAAS, or a Z-Y. meaning it can launch up to two type-I drones in a turn, at the same or different targets, provided both are not launched on the same impulse if simulating a TAAS. If simulating the Z-Y it can launch both type-I drones on the same impulse at the same or different targets. See (as Wayne Douglas Power indicated) rule (J4.24) and its subrules.

Note that while the Demon-3C (or the the Klingon Z-Y or the Kzinti TAAS) can all launch two type-I drones in a turn, the quarter turn rule applies (cannot launch a third drone on a subsequent turn within eight impulses of launching one on the previous turn), and (J4.25) limits each of these fighters to only being able to control two (2) drones at any one time. So even though a Demon-3 or Klingon Z-Y or Kzinti TAAS could technically launch two drones on Impulse #25 of a given turn and nominally be able to launch two more on Impulse #1 of the following turn, if they are still guiding the first two drones they would have to drop or transfer guidance to one or both of them in order to launch one or both of their two remaining drones. (Unless the fighter was equipped with a seeking weapon control pod, of course.)

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - 05:08 pm: Edit

May be playing a planet devastation scenario. As I understand atmosphere. A plasma torpedo...is launched into atmosphere. Lets say at range 1. It moves the first impulse it moves and becomes stuck in the Atmosphere. Where it will sit until the start of the next turn. While stuck in atmosphere it does not expend movement other than it costs 5 points of movement. which is added to its movement. so could reduce the warhead strength. Next turn...if the planet is now one hex away. The top moves forward and hits the planet. Doing damage at normal adjusted for the planets EW, atmosphere EW and number of hexes moved. So would hit after 6 movements. Is this a correct interpretation?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Charles CarrolL

Depends on the depth of the Atmosphere.

If the planet is class M, that means the planet and its atmosphere is all contained in that hex, the atmosphere does not extend into the surrounding hexes. So at "Range 1" you would launch the plasma torpedo (for my purpose, I am going to say you launched it on Impulse #32 of Turn #X). On Impulse #1 if Turn #X+1 it moved into the hex of the planet (it might not, depending on just where the target on the planet's surface is and the angle at which you launched it), at which point it stopped in the atmosphere. It will remain there for the rest of the turn (and might be affected by "phaser damage" if phaser weapons or other things that are defined as being able to affect a plasma warhead occur) until Impulse #1 of Turn #X+2 the weapon will (assuming again a Class M planet and thus not multiple hexes of atmosphere for it to descend through) impact. The weapon will have been on the map for 34 consecutive impulses, but will be regarded as having only moved six (6) hexes (the one from the launch point into the atmosphere, the five hexes of movement counted against it for entering the atmosphere, but it technically does not move, merely impacts, after that point).

See (P2.85) and its subsections.

By Jarod Ikeda (Allanon) on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Where do I find the rule about type III drone launch rate on Heavy fighters?
I found J10.414 where it refers to R1.F9.
But can't find R1.F9 anywhere.

I looked in advanced fighters, advanced missions, and captains rulebook.

I know an F14 can launch all 4 of its type III's along with its Type I launch rate, but what does the Heavy fighter (like the Demon-H) do?

Thanks,
Jarod

Please disregard. I found it in the fighter module (duh).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Jared Ikeda:

Rules that begin with R1. Are General rules. Thus starbases are (R1.1).

The "F" following the period means it is a shuttle/fighter rule. Just as (1.F7) is the general rule on how to convert a fighter to an electronic wsrfare variant.

Both (R1.F7) and (R1.F9) are found in Module J.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Jared Ikeda:

I think I misunderstood your query and over explained how to find the rule.

My apologies.

By Russ Simkins (Madcowak) on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 08:40 pm: Edit

I have a bit of a ticky-tack post but I'm doing development work and so attempting a detailed understanding of an issue win Moray Eel and fighters for building some new monsters and other rules.

(SM3.48) states "Shuttles (other than EWFs, MRS, or SWAC) cannot control drones targeted on the monster due to his powerful jamming."

The SoP: 6B6: SEEKING WEAPONS STAGE
SW Control Step: Voluntary transfers (F3.5) or release (F3.4) of control of seeking weapons; this includes catfish drone activations (FD51.24).
Involuntary transfers and releases can occur at many other points in the sequence; see (F3.53).

(F3.531) Voluntary transfer of control takes place during the Seeking Weapons Stage of the Impulse Activity Segment. It cannot take place on the impulse in which the seeking weapon itself was launched because of the order of procedures in the Sequence of Play, so a self-guiding seeking weapon would use a control channel during its first impulse.

So the way I'm reading that, fighters could never successfully use their drones against a Moray since there is effectively a one impulse timespan where the fighter must control the SW but the monster rules say they cannot.

Now personally, since this is just an argument between me and my opponent (myself) - I would just let myself win the argument and move on but development work gets technical so... what am I missing?

By Russ Simkins (Madcowak) on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 11:12 pm: Edit

and that's what I get for hurrying. Lost part of the SoP sequence

6B6: SEEKING WEAPONS STAGE
SW Control Step: Voluntary transfers (F3.5) or release (F3.4) of control of seeking weapons; this includes catfish drone activations (FD51.24).
Involuntary transfers and releases can occur at many other points in the sequence; see (F3.53).
Launch plasma torpedoes (FP1.3) and/or pseudo-plasma torpedoes (FP6.12).
Launch drones (FD1.2)


So the fighter wants to kill the monster. It launches drone(s) on 6B6 noting the number of the current impulse.
The transfer control stage has already happened for this impulse (earlier in 6B6) so it will have to wait for the next impulse for the EWF or whatever to takeover guidance control. Fighter can't control drone against Moray so needs to transfer control to the EWF (or a ship) but it cannot until next impulse so therefore the drone is not controlled and removed from the board.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 02:49 am: Edit

Fighters can successfully use seeking weapons against the Moray Eel but in a round about way. Launch the fighter as a scatter-pack on ballistic targeting. When the scatter-pack pops, the ship or shuttles listed could take control of the seeking weapons and guide them into the Eel. Complicated and the ship needs to herd the eel into the right place but so satisfying if done successfully.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 02:13 pm: Edit

Russ Simkins:

Fighters are odd in that there exist three examples of their being able to launch seeking weapons and other units taking up the guidance of those seeking weapons in the same impulse they are launched in seeming contradiction to (F3.53).

The first of course is the first drone armed fighter (R5.F1)/(J4.222).

The second, is their use as scatter-packs (FD7.44), which uses the normal scatter-pack rules including (FD7.363).

The third (and newest exception) is remote controlled fighters (J15.341).

While manned fighters have limits on the number of seeking weapons they can launch (J4.24), and are (as are remotely controlled fighters) limited in the number of seeking weapons they can control (J4.25) (among other limitations), it is quite clear that seeking weapons launched by a fighter can be guided immediately by a unit other than the launching fighter.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 05:08 pm: Edit

In game terms, the above does not come up much.

If the fighters are operating independently of any supporting ships, obviously the fighters will generally need to control their own seeking weapons (or transfer them to an EWF or MRS operating with them, or to a fighter with a seeking weapon control pod or pods, or to a heavy fighter that is part of the strike but obviously not part of the squadron). And generally if they are operating with ships it is easier (unless the remote control situation comes up) to have each fighter control what drones it can launch and only transfer them to a larger unit when that becomes viable (seeking weapon will hit target in the next impulse or two, so transfer control to a unit with better ECCM to counter target's ECM).

And obviously the Moray Eel is a special circumstance. In the early game, the Moray Eel would never face more than 18 drones from a given squadron (if the squadron had both an EWF and an MRS and the fighters were able to launch two drones a turn), or 12 (if it had only an EWF) or six (if it had only an MRS), and would have several impulses of MCIDS to degrade them (unless fighters also came into MCIDS range to distract its fire). But the game evolved, and now a Moray Eel might face as many as 24 drones from a given squadron (if it had an EWF and two seeking weapon control pods carried by other fighters). And 24 drones if launched on a frontal intercept is just too much for the MCIDS.

And, again, that is just one fighter squadron.

Back that fighter squadron up with a few ships and ...

Try a single Squadron of Z-YCMs, one carrying seeking weapon control pods. NOTE: Fast drones (obvious since these are Z-YCMs), and are because the Moray Eel is entirely predictable, always launched such that they are at Range 4 from the monster the impulse before it will move, and thus go directly from Range 4 to Range 2, meaning the MCIDS will only have two impulses to fire at any given drone wave.

Turn #1, 22 drones. Monster ends turn 88 hexes from planet. Worst case scenario 16 drones hit for 192 points of damage.

Turn #2, 22 drones. Monster ends turn 76 hexes from planet.Worst case scenario 16 drones hit for 192 points of damage, total now 384.

Turn #3, 22 drones. Monster ends turn 64 hexes from planet. Worst case scenario 16 drones hit for 192 points of damage, total now 576.

Turn #4, 24 drones (includes EWF's type-VI drones). Monster ends turn 52 hexes from the planet. Worst case scenario 18 drones hit for 196 points of damage, total now 772.

Turn #5, fighters are 28 hexes from their base (except the one with the seeking weapon control pods which is 30 hexes from the base, Monster is 40 hexes from planet.

Turn #6, two fighters land nine are stacked up waiting to land, and one is two hexes from the base, Monster is 28 hexes from planet.

Turn #7, two fighters each have two drones loaded (two deck crews working on each), eight more fighters land. Monster is 16 hexes from planet (note; the hangar bay modules make the base a carrier, so it was able to purchase the four extra deck crews).

Turn #8, eight fighters each have two drones loaded, first two fighters launch. Monster ends the turn four hexes from the planet.

Turn #9, three fighters make suicide attacks with phasers on the monster, six shots from Range 3 (each a 50% chance) timed for when the monster is scheduled to move), pulling the monster back away from the planet. Monster is now seven hexes from the planet with 11 moves remaining for the turn. The other eight fighters launch on Impulses #1, #3, #5, and #7. On Impulse #19 the monster is engaged by six fighters launching 12 drones (you have to figure a way to delay it four more impulses for the other four fighters to launch their drones, this can be done with the assets of the base, assumed to be a SAMS or Commercial Platform with two hangar bay modules, perhaps using its shuttles, but you might want to use its shuttles as scatter-packs, your option, however, these must either be all type-VI drones with random targeting for the monster's size class, or each can only have three type-IV drones if the base is a commercial platform, or one can be normal type-I drones and the other three type-IV drones if a SAMS station not armed with drone racks and since the EWF cannot control seeking weapons launched by something not part of its squadron). At this point, if the Moray Eel is still coming, all remaining fighters divide up into attack packs of 20+ phaser damage points approximately and commence suicide runs to try to save the colony. Note: The EWF does not land so that it is able to control drones and there is little point to rearming its type-VI rails.

You have launched 264x4=1,056+4+72 damage points of drones from the fighters (if you can delay the Eel, another 48 damage points of drones can be launched, but not counted here) for 1,132 possible drone damage points. Plus the 144 damage points from the base's scatter-packs, and whatever phaser damage you managed.

To be honest, it is extremely unlikely that a squadron of Z-YCMs would be found at such an insignificant base.

Add a large freighter to the mix, and it could follow along behind the Moray Eel firing its phaser-2 to pull the monster back for a few "bites" until it is disabled (it would take it three turns to fix the phaser-2, so depending on engine damage it might only get one or two such delay shots, but it might get more, giving the fighters more time to return to base and drone up.

By Russ Simkins (Madcowak) on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Thank you very much, Steve. An exceptionally thorough and detailed answer which I truly needed for what I'm working on. It also highlights perfectly the limited flexibility of E6.0 which is, in part, the subject of my efforts.
I was just doing due diligence on some solutions intended to address situations like the routing of eels by fighters when I suddenly wasn't sure there was an issue. I'm quite relieved to hear i haven't invested so much into nothing. The fight is on!

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 11:58 pm: Edit

Russ Simkins:

If you are looking at the Moray Eel, you might also want to include Captain's Log #29 as it had the first "Monster" article, and so had all the various rules around the rulebook collected in one place.

Also see Captain's Log #31 for the "Monster" article on the Moray Eel.

I cannot remember which later Captain's Log it is in, but a later one includes a "Can You Give Me An Example Of..." Article about a Lyran Bobcat flotilla versus a Moray Eel. It continues and concludes in the issue's Supplement. There is also a fiction story in the issue of a Moray Eel being engaged by Klingon G1s.

EDIT: It was Captain's Log #42.

I hope that helps.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 01:22 am: Edit

Ok going to make a rather lengthy post which will hopefully explain my question. I am not good with Andros. The guy I am playing hasnt played for years...and so is getting back into it. Anyway the long and short of it is...we were not sure...how using the SFBOL interface...the damage would be applied after the original internals occurred...and the 2 panels that blew would be done...and then the following damage from more panels blowing. Anyway....His Intruder. Took 164 damage in one volley to his front panels. 84 internals. All his batteries died. hiis front panels lost two panels...and the rest had 4 degradation and 6 power stored in them. So...the two panels that blew...had 5 degradation and 5 power...and 4 degradation and 6 power. Which I believe means they had 11? Power that had to go as internals. At which point two more panels died....then another...in the next volleys....ending up we believe with the ship exploding? Or did we do something wrong? I could post the damage list if that would help. With the Panel energies that it contained if needed.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 05:09 am: Edit

they fill the other panels first i beleive..

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 12:00 pm: Edit

That would have made a difference. The Intruder was effectively toast anyway. But it would not have blown up. Also he had 3 hanger bays with sat ships inside them. How does that effect damage? Or does it? And if so at what point in the damage allocation?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Not an official answer, but Sat ships in the hangar are hit on "cargo" hits. Such, damage goes to *their* PA panels first. This gives the INT *VASTLY* more internals.

If an INT with healthy sats inside took a huge hit in a single volley it would probably lose most of its warp engines and at least 4 phasers and 2 torps. However, the SAT ships would have filled or partially filled PAs and the INT would be likely to live.

[EDIT] SAT ships in the hanger would also absorb any "shuttle" hits on the DAC.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Thanks Ted

Now...so long as I am being annoying and bring up rules I am weak on.

If as an example...I have 5 ships...stacked in a hex. And say 5 T bombs are placed where I cannot avoid them. Do all 5 go off? since its 1 to 1. 1 ship per T bomb? Or is the roll idea used...and if a ship in the list should have set off the mine...it is now dead until next imp and does not go off?

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 12:45 pm: Edit

I also think that Andromedans can direct energy released when panels are hit to SatShips in their hangars. On the other hand, I don't know what the rules say if the SatShip in question does NOT have its PA Panels energized.

IIRC, the rules about this are in the G-section rules on Energy Modules.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 01:01 pm: Edit

I think the rules are in D10(?) on energy panels. Energy flows to ships in the hanger and to the other panels on the ship and the batteries but I do not remember the priority order except other panels on the same ship are before batteries.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 01:03 pm: Edit

The rules are pretty explicit on all of these questions on Andro play. Just go read them and all will be clear.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Wait? Are we talking about the convoluted rules of Star Fleet Battles? The ones that say one thing in one place and say something else somewhere else and some time contradict each other? Those rules? Also that you need a rules lawyer often to parse what was said vs what was meant?

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Releasing energy from PA panels

(D10.424) order of priority
1. Other PA panel boxes of that same panel bank.
2. An energy module (G20.41) in the hanger of the ship which is releasing the power.
3. Other PA panels of the ship.
4. The batteries of the ship OR the panels of a satellite ship in the hanger (G19.25).

Any released energy which cannot be picked up by one of the above systems is applied to the ship as internal damage (resolved as a separate volley with no phaser directional restrictions).

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Charles: The rules nowadays are pretty clear about how stuff works. Not like the bad old Commander's Edition. /brrrr

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, January 15, 2019 - 01:28 pm: Edit

So sorry, I know I asked this before, but I can't find Petrick's answer: on the Fed G-rack, the last load is all ADD darts. Can the main load have ADD rounds, too, or only "real" drones? Can you swap out drones for darts to have a mixed load, or must the ADD rounds all be by themselves?


Garth L. Getgen