Originally Developed by the plasma races, this advance quickly spread to all races.

A probe round can be armed as a "smoke round", which creates interference (ECM) between units that are sufficiently separated.

Armng: The probe is armed and fired normally as if launching a probe for information-gathering purposes. An additional point of warp power is allocated to the probe to create the "smoke" effect. The point of power may be applied on either turn of arming.

The hold cost for a smoke round is the same as for a standard probe round. (i.e. 1 point).

Range: The maximum range a smoke round may be fired is the same as for information-gathering purposes (i.e. 5 hexes)

Procedure and Effect: When fired, the smoke round is placed in its destination hex. For the next following 16 impulses, any DF weapons fire that passes through the smoke round's hex or any of the six surrounding hexes incurs an additional point of "natural" ECM per hex it travels through.

The procedure for determining smoke-based ECM is identical to that used for asteroids, including the normal limitations and advanatges.

Limits:
Smoke may never add more than +3 ECM. No hex of smoke may add more than +1 ECM.

Smoke effects do stack with ECM effects from asteroids and other "natural" sources of ECM.

Smoke only affects weapons fire from ships and bases at a range greater than (but not including) 15. Fighters and PF, having more limited fire control, are affected by smoke when firing at ranges greater than 10.

Interactions:
ESGs do not affect smoke once it is deployed but a smoke round may not be placed in a hex containing an ESG or shot through an ESG hex. Smoke rounds affect ESG strength as probe rounds.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:13 pm: Edit

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Range: The maximum range a smoke round may be fired is the same as for information-gathering purposes (i.e. 5 hexes)

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Interactions:
ESGs do not affect smoke once it is deployed but a smoke round may not be placed in a hex containing an ESG or shot through an ESG hex. Smoke rounds affect ESG strength as probe rounds.

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 11:27 pm: Edit

That's the antimatter version

No

No

Who cares? It's a game.

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 12:04 am: Edit

John Trauger wrote:

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Who cares? It's a game.

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By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 12:12 am: Edit

John;

How about web interactions? Note that web does effect some EW functions (SWAC or PF Scout going wild) but not others. Presumably the probe cannot fire through web. But if it detonates next to web, are the adjacent web hexes "smoke" hexes? What about if it detonates in a web hex?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 12:13 am: Edit

That's the antimatter version
Did you read G5.11?

R6 is both versions.

I still think it would be better to generate the smoke over a one hex area rather than 7. SVC area effect weapons as it is so why make the system easier to say no to. And do you really want a GSC to fire off a 6 hex wide and 3 hex thick barrier between it's own fleet and the enemy fleet for a +3 ECM protection bonus!?!...two FFs do likewise in the next half of the turn and you effectively give every ship in the fleet and ECM drone for an entire turn for just 4 points of power ( loaded in a no attack run turn )!


Personally it'ld be better to say that the smoke probe only protects the vessel that fires it by creating a long trail of smoke 6 hexes long ( using the antimatter bomb launch diagrams and directly forward ) but only about 400 metres in diameter.
The ship can't do EM ( sideslip ( unless following the patern set down in antimatter bomb rules ) HET or turn ) and gains a +3 ECM penalty when firing at other targets but is protected by +1 ECM whilst covered by the smoke and the smoke only protects for six hexes or 16 impulses which ever comes first.

Great for slipping through the enemy optium range and then blasting with Ph-2s or Ph-Gs. Not so great for protecting entire fleets with unused systems on relatively undergunned hull types like the Fed CL or Klingon D6.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 12:20 am: Edit

John,

If I understand the "smoke round" it is a defense weapon against DF fire say from a base. Does it affect the the placing ships line-of-sight or lock-on ? If you haven't thought of a name for the weapon you could call it the genie probe.( Name suggestion is not meant as a sarcastic comment).

By Mischa Chad Robuliak (Alias) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 03:10 am: Edit

Genie probe? Oooh... I'd use it then... ^_^

Just from my first reading of the original proposal, it sounds like the probe doesn't really put out smoke, as much as it does ECM interference (it just blankets an area around the probe, burns out fairly quickly, probably from putting out so much juice...). If that's true, it probably wouldn't void a cloak, at least...

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 08:42 am: Edit

Oh, for the love of Bast....

It's not real smoke, people, anymore than a fighter's "chaff" pack is really releasing strips of aluminum, or "electronic warfare" is really electronic in this era. It's just a conveniently colloquial term for what might be more accurately called a Regional Subspace Tracking and Attenuation Distortion Field; all things considered, I'd rather say "launch a smoke probe" than "launch a RSTADF device".

That said, I can see a fleet launching a wall of these things from range 9 or so, set up to try to ensure that they can get to their optimal firing range (4 or 2 for a Fed, point-blank for a Hydran, etc.). Could be brutal...which could be good or bad, depending on your outlook.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 09:14 am: Edit

the "Genie Probe"?!?

If used in conjunction with "sublight Evasion" (such as emergency saucer or Klingon Boom separation) and attempt to disengage by sublight evasion, does it increase the chances of success?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 01:42 pm: Edit

The only effect of smoke is creating ECM for objects inside or behind smoke at medium to long ranges.

I got the range wrong by a hex. (6 hexes distance not 5). It does make sense to require it to use (G5.33) firing arc restrictions (i.e. straight ahead only unless using directed turn modes)

It would aid base survival as long as the ships are outside range-15 (remember it has no effect if the true-range is less than 15)

Since MJC has been kind enough to point out the fallacy of filling space with any kind of actual matter, it's obvious that smoke would be some kind of temoprary energy effect. That's why ESGs have no effect on it and it would be silly to expect an ESG to clear it. (since smoke would have no effect at close range, the only time an ESG would affect smoke in practical terms would be sweeping Lyran-generated smoke. No reason to saddle the Lyrans with yet another disadvantage to their ESGs)

Smoke being thing and tenuous, I don't see web blocking or restricting it. You should be able to launch a smoke round into a web hex and get the full effect, but I would lean on the probe rules for whether you could launch a smoke round through web. I suspect not.

I'd prefer to leave smoke with the 7-hex area of effect. While the single hex might be more appropriate for base defense, it makes smoke almost useless for open-field use. One of my primary intentions for smoke was to discourage tedious, boring range-30 fleet engagements by making long-range fire noticably less effective. The 3-ECM cap was to make sure it didn't eliminate any point for the longe range-brackets.


The actual SPFX are entirely variable as Jessica points out (thanks!) so let's not get bogged down in detail. Like I said: it's a game. The focus at this stage should be game mechanics.

[rant]

I mean, if you stop and consider it, just about all SFB area-effects (commonsense exception: natural terrain) are totally nonsensical.

Web makes no sense: you're filling MJC's tremendous volume with some kind of energy that is present enough to block most kinds of weapons fire from any angle. Anyone care to invert e=mc^2 and figure out how many tons of matter would need to be converted to energy create a halfway decent energy density throughout just one hex?

T-bombs are even worse. By the inverse square law, if a T-bomb can make itself felt at range-1, it would inflict damage enough to destroy a ship at range-0. It wouldn't do the same damage at both ranges.

So let's not insist too strongly on real-world physics because the game just doesn't support it.

[/rant]

"Genie probe", huh?

I can hear larry hagman's voice now:

"Jeannie? Jeannie?!?"

But I digress.

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Do we really NEED more ecm producing items in SFB?? I don't see it.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Under (FD6) probe modules can be put into a drone. Can this smoke round be put into drone?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 08:19 pm: Edit

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Since MJC has been kind enough to point out the fallacy of filling space with any kind of actual matter, it's obvious that smoke would be some kind of temoprary energy effect. That's why ESGs have no effect on it and it would be silly to expect an ESG to clear it. (since smoke would have no effect at close range, the only time an ESG would affect smoke in practical terms would be sweeping Lyran-generated smoke. No reason to saddle the Lyrans with yet another disadvantage to their ESGs)

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It would aid base survival as long as the ships are outside range-15 (remember it has no effect if the true-range is less than 15)

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Under (FD6) probe modules can be put into a drone. Can this smoke round be put into drone?

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 08:50 pm: Edit

This is a proposed alternate use for a *probe* not a probe module for a drone.

My answer would be "no", you can't have a smoke module for a drone.

By Thanasis Kinias (Tkinias) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 03:37 am: Edit

Is there any need for this now that the Easterners have ECM plasma?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 09:34 pm: Edit

Quite a bit, especially for plasma users.

It's intended to break up the long range sniping game and force fleets to close.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 10:03 pm: Edit

John,

Could a smaller version be created for fighters that would replace a drone?

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 12:44 am: Edit

I doubt it would break up the sniping game. There is enough movement that the smoke would be avoided. With the exception of running targets, when the smoke could prevent shots at the weaker unreinforced after shields. I doubt helping ships retrograde and turn away without suffering damaging counterstrikes will achieve the intended goals.

The major impact of smoke rounds would be in attacking bases where the smoke could be laid in the optimum position to disadvantage weapons on the base. The attacker could launch smoke to cover the impulses when the base rotates and can fire increased weapons at a given target.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 09:57 pm: Edit

I think SVC may mean this thread for the Extreame Measures Module.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, January 15, 2018 - 12:52 pm: Edit

A new thought...use of a smoke probe round to add a modifier +1 to a die roll to determine success or failure for a sublight evasion attempt in cases where there is an enemy ship close by (perhaps less than 15 hexes?).

Not sure how it would work, but that is something that can be resolved.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, January 15, 2018 - 01:40 pm: Edit

I have not commented on this before, but let me point out that a probe is the size of a large drone (Annex #7K). It is designed and built for the purpose of collecting information, with a secondary mission of a very short ranged (five hexes) torpedo (anti-matter bomb).

I do not see an instrument package as something that can converted to this proposed use, and I do not see the energy cost as being equivalent to the proposed benefit gain.

Further, probes cannot be "held." Anti-matter probes cannot be held at all (G5.32), and probes armed for information use a "rolling delay" system (G5.21), which means you cannot add a point of energy above the arming cost for an information probe and then "hold" that point of energy from that point through the rolling delay system. If the probe is not launched, the energy is lost.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, January 15, 2018 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Sometimes, big things can come in small packages.

In my view, the "smoke" is a euphemism for the electronic noise generated by the probe. Like SPP I doubt that the smoke probe can affect all ships direct fire thru the hex the smoke probe is deployed into, as well as all six adjacent hexes. I further question that the cumulative effect of +3 natural ECM is realistic in comparison to the size of the probe and the amount of power used to energize it.

But, in the case of sublight evasion, a fleeing ship is attempting to evade detection by enemy ship(s) by reducing emissions and "ineffect" go dark. See rule on sublight evasion for specifics.

A fleeing ship, particularly one that dropped its warp engine necelles, cut its active fire control emissions might well generate less emissions than a probe that is sqauking electronic noise.

I think of it as being a poor mans decoy, (similar in intent to the Wild Weasel Shuttle.)

My point is, the suggestion I made is that such a use of a probe give a fleeing ship a modest modifier n sunlight evasion only. Not the +3 natural ECM as proposed. Rather a suggestion given that it does not add natural ECM points like a wild weasel Shuttle does. And since the launching ship is attempting to disengage using sunlight speed, there didn't seem to be a need to specify a speed limit... which in any case would be speed zero or 1 hex per turn at most.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

I think the proposed use (sublight evasion) is pointless. The probe takes two (2) turns to arm, and you seldom have enough advance knowledge that you are going to attempt sublight evasion that far out. Second is the simple fact that the probe's "noise' level will not approach the noise level of the jettisoned warp engines exploding to mask the signature of the ship. It is simply not going to be enough to cause a loss of lock-on by itself to gain what amounts to a second die roll to successfully sublight evade.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Steve Petrick:

Yes, the Probe would require two (2) turns to arm. And if a thoughtful captain knew that attempting a sublight evasion attempt might be needed, would allocate the power if it would increase his ships odds of survival. It would be a modifier to the original (only) attempt. I do not recall asking for a second attempt at making a successful Sublight Evasion die roll.

Also, not all ships that may need to attempt a Sublight Evasion, have warp engines to drop and explode. Detached saucers for example, have no warp engines by definition. Unfortunately, iirc, not all saucers have probes (CA class ships have the probe in the secondary hull, for example.) so in those cases, this proposal would not apply.

Qualified examples would include, frigate , destroyer, saucers, POL and all variants.... off hand I forget if the Probe launcher is in the DN or BB saucer.