Archive through April 23, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
The "X" Files:
OLD X2 FOLDER:
X2 drones:
Archive through April 23, 2003
Is that an X2 rule or a general rule?
MJC,
I don't understand.
This is the "X2 Drones" thread, right?
Why would I post a non-X2 drone rule here?
What threw me was the 12 Impulses note for the C-racks.
I thought everyone was agreed that X1R would make a note that the C-racks in the late X1 period dropped to an 8 impulse delay between launches and in the X2 period dropped to a 6 impulse delay.
My error.
Strike that, make it 8, thank you.
Don't know if We ever agreed to C-racks going below 8 though...
John T.:
That is an excelent alternative to the H'esk proposal of previous. I like it!
Question though, chambering would commit you to the next drone to be fired, right? At least, at the moment of chambering?
There would have to be some sort of record to keep track of what's in the chamber and when it was placed there.
This'll make me look unskilled.
Can you partial load a rack?
If so I don't see why you couldn't unchamber the drone. If not, you're probably stuck with it, unless we write in some kind of ejection mechanism.
Sure, you could unchamber it. It'd take time, though, and more time to re-load. I think it's a pretty good idea. We had a term for it in the service; "battle-carry". It meant you had a round in the tube, based on what sort of opposition you expected to run into. It would take some record keeping, but I think it's worthwhile. Question, though. At what WS will this really be the biggest help? IIRC, WSIII actually allows drones on the board at the start of the game. What about WSI and WSII?
I've heard it called having "one up the spout".
You can only get one turn's worth off in WS-III so you'ld need to answer the question of how many space in a rack, which kind of rack and how big are the drone.
Type VII are one space, Type VIII are 1.5, Type X are proably 1 and Type XI are probably 2.
Now sure if you load up on Type XI drones and have 6 spaces to your X2C-racks and after launch you then count one drone as being "chambered" you could spend Turn 1 reloading and IIRC have a full rack ready on turn 2 with a Type XI ready for launch aswell.
So you get two Type XI off and one turn three get another Two Type XI off per rack.
If you haven't won by the end of turn 3, you'll need a turn to reload and rethink your attack run.
I would think that loading a chamber would take only a short time but unloading the chamber would take longer. As such I figure that weapons status would be irrelivent since you could have the drone of choice in the chamber on impulse one of turn one under all WS. Unless the question is at what weapons status can you have one in the chamber and a FULL rack?
John, this is your idea but please allow me to propose some possablities on how it could work. Let me use a six space XG-Rack as an example. There is six spaces for drones and one chamber. The chamber can hold up to two spaces but only one drone. Firing a drone from the chamber does not constitute the "Rack" as in service. Loading the chamber does constitute the "Rack" as in service. The chamber can be loaded and fired once per turn, in either order. This is important because if a chamber is loaded previously it could fire the drone then be reloaded after but on the same turn. This allows for a droned to be launched on the next turn but keep the acual rack out of service for reloading.
I would venture to guess that it should take four or eight impulses to unload the chamber but one to load. To unload you must have available spaces in the rack to fit the drone.
Drone XG
| Chamber |
| _______ | ____ | ____ | ____ | ____ | ____ | ____ |
Loren,
I considered chambering to be one of those things crews do that isn't in the manuals.
I'm split on whether to provide accounting space for a chambered drone. It's not something a ship's going to do all the time. I tend to think it's best as a part of the written notes players make during the game.
I would figure that the practice of chambering would first start occur when the launcher and rack and independent enough to load a drone in the launcher even if it was well ahead of when it could be launched, even if the launcher went offline with the rack when the rack was reloading.
Then as launcher and rack get a bit more independent, the launcher would remain active after the rack is shut down, enabling the launcher to launch even if the rack is shut down.
These would be refits we can apply as time goes on. (It's important to give X2 a similar "organic" texture to X2 that GW-tech has.
Otherwise, go ahead and play. I'm not territorial about the concept. I'll just give my stuff the version that makes the most sense to me. 
Well, here is what I imagined when you posted you idea. I used a metaphor of today’s hand weapons.
Currently, drone racks are like a barrel pistol. You load bullets into the barrel and the bullet is fired from the barrel. To reload the barrel you take the whole thing out of action.
With the new concept you get a rifle magazine clip. The Clip is the rack that loads the firing chamber. The clip in a rifle can be reloaded while the firing chamber is loaded and capable of firing.
Similarly, the loading of the firing chamber is quick but unloading it is slower (especially since the ammo isn't simply ejected but placed back into the rack.)
If properly handled, this would allow ships to maintain their racks better and keep a steady flow of drones ready for launch. It could also allow ships to enter the battle with one extra drone in the rack, so to speak. (Locked and loaded with one in the chamber).
Now, as to playability the duel H-type rack system would be easier and more efficiant but I've always had some reservation about that idea because of the space such a system would take up. However, with your chambering idea you get much of the same benefit with very little added physical space.
I'm going to integrate it into my main proposal with the main credit to you John. The only question is whether to make it a general quadrant wide improvement or just a Klingon improvement. I'm thinking the latter.
Loren,
Your thought processes pretty much mirror the original inspiration. We go from using revolvers to clip-loaded drones.
Klingon-only would be cool.
Logically though, it'd be easy for anyone to do. I got the idea while writing the rules for the drone array. I considered it as a special rule for drone arrays and thought "hey, anyone could do this."
Ya, any one could but I figure that perhaps no one but the Klingons did...at first. Having been commited to their respective designs they could not simply refit their ships once they saw the Klingon design in action. Further, no one saw the pressing need to go to the expense of redesigning new ships until the Xork invasion. Then, perhaps, everybody uses a Chambered Rack. Creating a bulky but workable add-on chamber to the out side of the old ships and incorporating the new rack into new builds. Orions might adopt it a bit earlier on new builds and/or in option mounts.
Whatcha think?
We could make the chamber incompatible with ADD rounds. That would limit who would want to use it.
Good idea Tos.
Loren,
I can deal with making chambering a Klingon thing and that gives the Kzinti a nice Xork era upgrade.
It's actually the Kzinti's who gain the most.
Instead of have a 6 space X2C-rack they can have a 6 space X2C-rack plus "a drone on the rail".
This means that instead of being limited to 4 Type VIII drones over a 2 turn break ( 25 impulses in toto is we all think a 6 impulse delay between X2C-rack launches is okay ), we can jump up to a full four Type XI drones, hurling not 8 warhead spaces at the enmy but 12.
I would like to put some serious restrictions on the Chambered ( although it's really railed ) drones, such as it takes dustcload, Nebulae, T-bomb/NSM/ship-explosion & Asteroid damage sitting on the rail ( although this may create a problem for fighters ).
That assumes that the rail is literally outside the ship. I don't think that's the case. Having a drone in the tube and another on the rack right behind it ismore what I was thinking this was about. The explosion penalty is nice, as is the long "unload" time, but this may be one of the benefits that just doesn't have a downside. Drones in 2X may need all the help they can get, anyway, to remain effective.
I never saw the drone being held out side the ship. In fact, I figured the rack it self would be designed deeper into the hull and the tube above the rack. This way the chamber can be locked and the rack can be serviced. Sort of like an auto loader for a torpedo or a tank gun. When the breach is sealed you can launch the drone while servicing the rack. But the whole thing is interior to the ship. Which is why I don't see there being a simple refit as the placement of the system is entirely different.
Alright no penalty other than the D12 Chain Reaction explosion risk.
Are other drone racks mounted in the shuttle bay or shall that just go up with their respective racks?
Do they have to be "joined racks"?
I can see Klingons getting messed up but Fed not.
I don't think it's much of a game breaker even though it does change the Dynamic of some turns ( kinda like the X1 Feds and Two turn 16s and one turn 12s.
But I do think it's more book keeping than it's worth.
Forgive me but since I've been concentrating on the Plasma I haven't followed this discussion as closely as I should.
Will 2X drones be available for use by GW and 1X?
Kenneth: I wouldn't think so but that has not been discussed yet.
MJC: These racks would not be apart of a shuttle bay (at least not in my view). As far as book keeping, it would be possible, if as a player you so chose, to ignor the chamber and simply play the rack as normal. The chamber is an added benifit of technology and innovation that allows a rack continous launching with no down time for loading. To gain the bennifit, you must keep an accounting.
Ken,
I proposed it as a X2 thing so as not to disturb seeking weapon balances there.
L.K.:
Go sit in a corner of a round room.
I could forgo the advantage and run the rack normally because I might want to be lazy, but since I've already paid BPV when I purchased the ship for the ability, I'ld be shooting myself in the foot.
K.J."
I hope not...atleast not all the X2 drones...mayby just most of the warheads, like General availiblity Ph-2 swordfish warheads.
But I think two GW ships launching Speed 40 Type XI drones at each other would suck, particularly if one of them was a kzinti.
With hardly any ability to stop these drones and the ability t do horrendous damage ( Type XI are 48/10/40 you know )...you might be able to deal with one in a GW ship but not 4...so the GW ships would be trashed in quick order.
Now a Type IVF with advanced explosive warheads ( 32/6/32) isn't so bad, despite being seriously hardcore in and of itself.