Archive through April 24, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: STELLAR SHADOWS: Stellar Shadows proposals : 02-Stellar Shadows Feds: Federation Battle Disk: Archive through April 24, 2003
By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 09:32 am: Edit

Robert Cole wrote:


"I believe an alternate Federation ship development scheme - designed around a single secondary hull - would be an excellent design study. Could these Disks be part of that? Possibly."

At the very least this would make a wonderful (IMHO) SSJ issue...

If accepted for future developement in the "historical" SFB timeline it would seem to be the "perfect" solution for the Zork wars dilema... i.e. how to account for the inability of the original star fleet ships to deal effectively with the Zorkians while allowing the Federation to survive and proscecute the Zork war later on...these "Battle Disk" upgrades on "Conventional" X ships secondary hulls would provide for a significant increase in the combat power of the existing fleet while not having to force whole sale changes to the ship production rules for larger hull sized ships...just allow for the "overbuilding" of the battle disk saucer types!

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Robert, a couple more things.

One last comment on the wing timing. As game mechanics go your solution would be fine. I just pictured it in my head that the wings would take real time to open up. I figured four seconds to be pretty fast. One second might toss the crew in the wings up against the wall a bit but maybe the stabilization fields would absorb that. The opening time would give some warning to opponants that the change was taking place. Game Mechanics wise is suppose it about the same.

Second: What about landing on planets? It seems to me if these could land there would be no end to the tactical uses. First, a Battle Disk Squadron could hide on a planet or asteroid for what ever type of mission. A troop type might have two barracks and two cargo in each wing, land and unload fourty BP and however many tanks and GCVs the cargo could hold. Just befor landing the wings open. After, the troops and GCVs debark. Then it takes off again for support opperations. Don't even get me started on the GPV value of such a thing! Even the deck plans wouldn't be that difficult! Consider the rescue type missions available!
Maybe these could be Starfleet Black Ops ships?

One extra (possibly insain?)thought, though I think this could be too complicated, I was thinking yesterday when I read your idea that these were not built because of Warp Dynamics problems. What if opening the winds disrupted the warp dynamics in such a way as to increase the movement cost? 1/3 while closed, 1/2 while open. Seems like a penalty but it could be a free breaking system too. Basically, unpowered, unplotted mid-turn speed changes. The major problem I see with it is mixing it with powered and plotted Mid-T Spd Chngs. The process might make someones head explode and I wouldn't want blood on my hands. Thought I'd share the idea anyway.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

Quote:

1. Are these Disks intended for combat only? Or will they have a patrol capacity? (danger is they could fall into the traditional role of dreadnoughts in SFB...ie kept at Starbases in a reserve condition until activated...just like Dreadnoughts are supposed to (until the start of the General war)).



Well... I don't envision these having much use in the traditional patrol role. They aren't robust enough for some missions (scientific research, frex). However, as a Pirate Killer these could be quite fun. Black Ops would love these.

Quote:

2. Are these ships intended for battle groups (as in F&E)? if so, are they more likely to operate in pairs or groups of three ships, or 6 ship groups? (Golly, sounds battlestar Galactica/Cylons more and more!)



Hrm... my original plan has them under development just before X-ships. They wouldn't be around for most of the GW, and by the time they are available, they aren't as capable in comparison with their opponents. If they were deployed earlier, then they very likely would have been used in a Battle Group role - 3 or 6 ships.

Quote:

3. Is the idea to give the federation a PF capable group without having to deploy the PF tender/base facility?



No. They aren't attrition units. Highly specialized, perhaps, but not designed to "fight & die".

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5. If No to #4, would this ship type be compatible with the Zork wars time period?



Got me. Loren Knight says he has some ideas. I am keeping out of the X2 topics for now, so I'm not even sure what is being discussed.

Quote:

6. Are each of these disk ships intended to operate in all ways like a conventional ship/SSD in Star Fleet Battles...or will one player control multiple units with a comon "Squadron" SSD/Energy allocation sheet?



Full fledged ships.

Quote:

At the very least this would make a wonderful (IMHO) SSJ issue...

If accepted for future developement in the "historical" SFB timeline it would seem to be the "perfect" solution for the Zork wars dilema... i.e. how to account for the inability of the original star fleet ships to deal effectively with the Zorkians while allowing the Federation to survive and proscecute the Zork war later on...these "Battle Disk" upgrades on "Conventional" X ships secondary hulls would provide for a significant increase in the combat power of the existing fleet while not having to force whole sale changes to the ship production rules for larger hull sized ships...just allow for the "overbuilding" of the battle disk saucer types!



Sounds like a start! :)

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 05:57 pm: Edit

David Slatter:

Quote:

Is this an X-ship? Doesn't seem to have the BPV or shield you might expect for an X-ship, so I'm assuming Y178 ish. Nice looking design.



It's designed just before X-Tech. No X-Tech on the ship itself.

David Slatter:
Quote:

It is however, a bit good.

You have, effectively 4 photons (megaphaser counts as 2) and 6 P-1 on a frigate, with a better power curve than a fed DD, and excellent turn modes/breakdown ratings.

The only caveat is the poor arc of the megaphaser, but then the ship is pretty mobile.

It's too good for its BPV.

BTW, if SC2 units can't mount a P-4, why should a SC4 unit manage to mount a megaphaser, which is only a somewhat downgraded P-4?

I really think the megaphaser is OTT, but then I havn't seen any megaphaser yet, so I don't know any of their limitations.



Probably. I'm no good at BPV decisions. However, if they were completed, they would have been fielded against HDWs, FFXs, PFs, Mega-Fighters, etc. They need to be good.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Loren Knight:

Quote:

One last comment on the wing timing. As game mechanics go your solution would be fine. I just pictured it in my head that the wings would take real time to open up. I figured four seconds to be pretty fast. One second might toss the crew in the wings up against the wall a bit but maybe the stabilization fields would absorb that. The opening time would give some warning to opponants that the change was taking place. Game Mechanics wise is suppose it about the same.



Well... it probably makes more sense physics-wise, but it just seems too much to track.

Quote:

Second: What about landing on planets? It seems to me if these could land there would be no end to the tactical uses. First, a Battle Disk Squadron could hide on a planet or asteroid for what ever type of mission. A troop type might have two barracks and two cargo in each wing, land and unload fourty BP and however many tanks and GCVs the cargo could hold. Just befor landing the wings open. After, the troops and GCVs debark. Then it takes off again for support opperations. Don't even get me started on the GPV value of such a thing! Even the deck plans wouldn't be that difficult! Consider the rescue type missions available!
Maybe these could be Starfleet Black Ops ships?



Well... the rules have it that no Barracks or Hull inside the Wings (my thinking is that you can't sleep / live inside them - the only access to the systems is maintenance tubes), so part of this idea doesn't work. However, these Disks should certainly be able to land on planets, and a Ground Assault Disk would be capable of discharging lots of troops.

\quotePOne extra (possibly insain?)thought, though I think this could be too complicated, I was thinking yesterday when I read your idea that these were not built because of Warp Dynamics problems. What if opening the winds disrupted the warp dynamics in such a way as to increase the movement cost? 1/3 while closed, 1/2 while open. Seems like a penalty but it could be a free breaking system too. Basically, unpowered, unplotted mid-turn speed changes. The major problem I see with it is mixing it with powered and plotted Mid-T Spd Chngs. The process might make someones head explode and I wouldn't want blood on my hands. Thought I'd share the idea anyway.}

Icky. I still don't do Mid-Turn Speed changes, the thought of having to deal with this is just painful.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 03:41 pm: Edit

I was hit with an interesting use for the wings today.

Carriers.

So I reworked Robets SSD really quick. (quick thanks to Mike Raper. I stole the F-18's off of one of his SSDs)

Wings-open the entire shuttle-bay is open to space, effectively turning it into a balcony with positions equal to the number of shuttle boxes. It might be an interesting limitation to say that this is the only way to launch/land from the fighter bays.

Besides, the designation, while not completely accurate, makes for another disk-pun. I call it the DVD.

http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/DVD.gif

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 05:09 pm: Edit

What if these ships were owned and opperated by the Federation Marines and not Starfleet regular.

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