?? (*Wasn't there an engraved tube that's his??*)

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 08:15 am: Edit

I do not the booth is not working. make him watch hours of All in the Family Reruns.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Had two more thoughts...

What if one of the heavy weapons the Chomak use were "Anti-Shield" weapons, like the "Drill" element of the Uthiki Boson Drill, were able to ignore the VRF of the Magellanic Outer Shields (as per rule MD2.217), but said heavy weapon was NOT able to put near as much energy into PA panels, or energized PAs in such a way that the Andromedans were able to clear the energy more easily (perhaps like the lack of degradation points from `Phon Energy Howitzers). That specific integration of relative technologies might serve as a fig-leaf for why the other Magellanic people were so easily handled by the Chomak while the Andromedans had such a field day with them.

The other thought is, instead of "All in the Family" (... BTW: i THINK the line in the opening song that is hard to understand is, "Gee, our old DeSalle ran great..."), you might get me to behave by threatening me with the Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, or a Yahoo Serious film festival...

Waitaminit... I should have learned the lesson Brer Rabbit was trying to teach me when he begged Brer Fox to not throw him into that briar patch... Lessee... Got it! Godzillathon! Showa movies (originals, mostly from the sixties)...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 01:30 pm: Edit

One of the things you run into is concepts that might be sound on their face, but wind up making an empire unpopular to play.

One could postulate that the Chomak are at this juncture "in decay." Ken's original background pretty much says that as of Y160 the Chomak have been a space-going civilization for 7,400 years. For most of that time they have had no "opposition," until they began encountering the Magellanics. They are probably not as indolent as the Drexarii (at least we are not going to allow the Chomak to have Drex technology). But maybe the Chomak will have what amounts to "X" technology, but be saddled with "poor crews." And maybe their ships are actually partially inoperative (this would be just a "game" background, i.e., the SSDs would only reflect those parts of a given ship that are operational and not the inoperative parts).

You could limit the advancement of the empire by also implementing Tholian "Auto-Forge" technology, but the auto-forges themselves are breaking down which puts limits on numbers and types of ships.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Jeffrey George Anderson:

Nobody is saying the Chomak have to be pushovers for the Andromedans. No one is saying Chomak weapons have to not work versus the Andromedans (although they obviously are not going to be destroying a Dominator in every engagement).

All that is being said of the Chomak is that, in the end the Andromedans defeated them.

Obviously players will be happier if a fight between a Chomak force and a similar BPV Andromedan force is fun with each side having a chance at winning. No one wants to play a game where his force is set up on the map and then just removed from the map on Impulse #1 when the other side says "Boo."

And, just for you, we are bringing back Zam Phir's Pan Pipes.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Playing while Howard the Duck is also playing.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 05:41 pm: Edit

SPP: You are (as always) correct, but you know how some folks are SO eager to help that they get to be pains in the neck (I type with a sheepishly apologetic grin on my face)...

So it'll be the chiropractor who throws me in my personal, engraved agonizer booth, complete with elevator music.

And Richard? I always try to find something to like about most films. Sure, Howard was horrible, but as I remember, Lea Thompson was cute in it...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Jeffrey George Anderson:

No problem. We will use computer generation to replace Lea Thompson with someone less cute ... say (deleted as too horrible to mention on a public board).

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 07:11 pm: Edit

I was going to ask how being stuck watching Lea Thompson for a couple hours counted as punishment.

"Please, Br'er Wolf, not another Gal Gadot highlights reel. Anything but that!"

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Margaret Thatcher?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Roseanne Barr??

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 11:58 pm: Edit

Richard Simmons???

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Sunday, April 29, 2018 - 03:58 am: Edit

(... would someone just send me on a hit-and-run raid to that Dominator so I can make this all go away...)

Waitaminit... I think I just got hit with another thing that the Chomak might have; robotic boarding parties in large numbers! The other peoples of the Magellanic Clouds are so fearful of them because of how easy it is for Chomak to CAPTURE enemy ships (withOUT risking any of their own people), but such techniques are far harder to employ against Andromedan ships, but not against Andromedan bases and (especially) planetary facilities.

I'll need to check the rules for docking ships to bases, but it might present a good reason for WHY the Andromedans felt the need to whack the Chomak.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, April 29, 2018 - 11:49 am: Edit

According to the data in (MA1.2) and (MA1.3) - as shown here - the Eneen only had an as-yet-unpublished Gunship as of Y36, when they made First Contact with the Chomak. Since the Eneen captured warp technology from the Jumokians during the Eneen Rebellion of Y30-Y33, it's worth noting that the Jumokian Gunship - which has also yet to be published in SSD form - is noted as having been limited to SFB Speed 10 at the time. While the Eneen reportedly had access to Neutron Guns from Y30 onwards, along with the early laser technology they "acquired" from the Jumokian League, such ships would have been easy to "dissuade" by a fleet possessing "modern" (GURPS Prime Directive Tech Level 12) ships.

Between Y36 and Y67 (when the Chomak withdraw their forces back to their home cluster), the Eneen advance their technology base significantly - but still have a way to go before they "mature" in that regard. The "Middle Years" Eneen are saddled with older ships which cannot be upgraded to "modern" (SFB Speed 30) warp drives - such as the CL and DD - or have "technology samples" (such as the BDD) which struggle to fit their intended post-H'Gar battle doctrine. Their first true "modern" ship, the CA, would not enter service until Y75, by which time the Chomak had long since withdrawn from what would become the Eneen's northern provinces.

And that's just the Eneen. The Baduvai do not make First Contact with the Chomak until Y125; their early attempts to expand northwards had been stymied by the Uthiki, who coincidentally first came to terms with the Baduvai in Y67, the year of the Chomak withdrawal. (Unless it wasn't a coincidence; perhaps the Uthiki themselves had encountered the Chomak prior to Y67, and didn't want to risk any trouble by allowing the Baduvai to venture northwards until the Chomak packed their bags from the region?)

And even if one were to say that the advent of Baduvai and Eneen "war" classes would have made them more capable of holding their own in combat against Chomak warships by then, both Magellanic Powers would have been far too busy keeping tabs on each other - or on the Maghadim, for that matter - to devote the kind of resources needed to launch some sort of expedition against the Chomak Cluster. At that point, if the Chomak were minded to care one way or another what was going on over in the "main" area of the LMC, they might not be in a hurry to entangle themselves in what, prior to the Andromedan conquest at least, was a status quo which suited their interests.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, April 29, 2018 - 11:57 am: Edit

As for what may have happened in Y67 to oblige the Chomak to give up their holdings north of Eneen space, and what they might have been doing there in the first place, it might be worth taking a fresh look at some of the other "ancient" species out there - as well as other events which can trigger such dramatic responses.

I've noted the Helgardians (RN100.0) in this thread before. They are a long-lived species, with a lifespan averaging a thousand Earth years, but they have a low reproduction rate. By and large, they can only establish a few new colonies per century - which was fine back in their old reality, where they had ten thousand years (with no enemies to fight) to build a star empire and construct a Ringworld around their home star - but also means that they are merely "first among equals" among Triangulum empires in the "modern" era.

Beyond this, there are the Chlorophons (OR7.0), who have an average lifespan of 2,200 years! Despite this, there is only a relatively limited window in which a given Phon is both mature enough to handle the controls of a starship yet still small enough to physically fit within one. Plus, it's not clear how many Phon buds can be sown at once, or how many Keepers can be sustained by any "gardener" Phons assigned to oversee the growth of a given extra-solar colony. It's been noted that the Phons had both developed and discarded warp travel thousands of years before other Omega Octant species even began rational thought. Perhaps it took until the first "modern" warp engines were developed before the Phons could make a real go at maintaining a continual presence in space - or, perhaps, they simply used long "fallow" periods between each era of warp activity to allow each wave of colonies to develop to the point of being able to support further expansion.

And then there are the færie-like Loriyill (OR12.0). No-one knows for certain how long they have been in space, or what they had been up to prior to their withdrawal to the Home Stars - which may, or may not, have been related to the earlier war they had fought against the Souldra (OR13.0). They possess a strong degree of detachment from other empires - even the Chlorophons. Notably, they apparently lacked any sort of phaser technology prior to the First Cycle.

And in terms of calamities, there are "weather events" such as the Zosman Cataclysm, which is noted in Captain's Log #52 as having swept through the Zosman (OR23.0) home territory in the Phi Sector c. Y70. And there are plenty of "monsters" out there which can cause all sorts of problems, be they "living" beings such as Sun Snakes (which accounted for the Paravian home system over in the Alpha Octant), or "mechanical" entities such as Death Probes or Juggernauts. On that note, I suggested in the Module C5R discussion thread that it would be interesting to see a few LMC-specific monsters - for example, perhaps one could create a "mechanical" monster which was armed with heavy lasers, as a parallel to the phaser-4s used on Juggernauts.

So, it could be that the Chomak took quite a long time simply to explore and colonize the home cluster itself, even before they first ventured out into the Fringe region - particularly if their earliest non-tactical warp technology had the same kind of range limitations as seen in pre-ISC space, as noted in SFB Module Y2 - and that some sort of danger (or combination of dangers) may have transpired to oblige them to enter a new period of retrenchment orr rebuilding from Y67 onwards.

By Samuel Davis (Tancapkzin) on Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 01:23 am: Edit

How many scenarios have been published for the Magellanic cloud and what about the Triangulum galaxy , tholian home galaxy , and omega sector

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Samuel Davis:

As of Captain's Log #39 there were 16 Magellanic Cloud Scenarios. It would take time to go through Captain's Logs #40 through #52 to see if any additional ones have been published.

As of Captain's Log #39 there were five Triangulum Galaxy Scenarios. It would take time to go through Captain's Logs #40 through #52 to see if any additional ones have been published.

As of Captain's Log #39 there were four Tholian Home Galaxy Scenarios. It would take time to go through Captain's Logs #40 through #52 to see if any additional ones have been published.

As of Captain's Log #39 there were 43 Omega Octant Scenarios. It would take time to go through Captain's Logs #40 through #52 to see if any additional ones have been published.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 06:26 pm: Edit

SL288 (Sel) CL41
SL292 (Omg) CL41
SL297 (LMC) CL42
SL300 (LMC) CL43
SL309 (Omg) CL44
SL323 (Sel) CL47 [civ war]
SL345 (Sel) CL51 [Sel/Jin]
SL349 (???) CL52 [Jug/And]

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Stewart Frazier:

The thing is you have to actually look at the scenarios when it comes to the Seltorians. There are more scenarios involving Seltorians, yes, but they are not all "Tholian Home Galaxy" scenarios. (SL345.0) for example takes place (it is thought) in the Alpha Octant of the Milky Way and mat not have involved the Seltorians at all. There are two scenarios (that I can think of off the top of my head, but did not mention) where Seltorians are involved, but they are "between galaxies" in the deep space, and so not "Tholian Home Galaxy" scenarios. (A Hive Ship and its supporting vessels is attacked by Banshees in one scenario, and a Hive Ship and its supporting vessels run into Juggernauts.)

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Monday, June 03, 2019 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Okay, throwing my 0.02 in regarding the Chomak...

I think the problem is the Andromedans benefit from knowing what we know. We know the past, present and future of the Cloud. We know the location of all bases, capitals, and planets. We know what is going on in the Alpha and Omega sectors at the time. And we assume the Andromedans know all this as well.

It has been stated the Andromedans would not ignore the Chomak as they had rebuffed the Andromedans several times. But what exactly is "rebuffed". Perhaps SPP suggestion that the Chomak only had (or could build at any time) a limited number of ships, and each "rebuff" mortally wounded the Chomak.

But there is a problem, and it is in the Desecrator starbase description in (R10.7) "the Desecrator was not particularly well armed; the Andromedans did not design it to resist a determined attack".

But the Magellanics destroyed one Desecrator, and crippled a second. And the Andromedans never bothered to bolster the third Desecrator (there last link to their home galaxy) to the standards in Module C3A? They gambled here and ultimately lost.

It is also stated the Andromedans never had that many ships, but were able to fool everyone because they could rapidly redploy and make their forces look better then they truly were. Yet despite their lack of ships, what did they do? Attack almost the entire known Milky Way Galaxy (Alpha, Omega, and apparently Xork space) at the same time. With only the resources of the LMC (mostly). Why did they not focus on one sector at a time? Why did they not build up their forces in the LMC first? They had planned their invasion centuries before. Why the rush?

Yes, most of the above was ret-conned after the Andromedan history had been originally appeared. But it has to be accounted for now.

Perhaps the Chomak were like the Tholians in F&E. Conquering them is going to cost you a hundred ships and you gain a handful of economic points. Perhaps the Andromedans built a firewall of battle stations along the Chomak front and were satisfied with leaving an increasing garrison of ships until they finally felt they could conquer the Chomak?

An the SFU history is full of decisions made by empires and captains that made no sense but where done any way. A few notable examples:

The Klingon/Lyran conquered the Hydrans but did not pursue them into the Old Colonies. Reason: They did not know the economic/production capabilities there and did not want to pursue the remaining Hydran forces into unknown territory. What happens? The Hydrans rebuild there forces and reclaim there territory. The problem is the SAME thing happens in the General War. They did not learn the first time around?

The "Surrpise Reversed". A Romulan squadron parks across the neutral zone from a Federation ship they plan to attack. They shut down their ships, enjoy a good meal and get a good nights sleep so they can attack the ship in the morning. But, to their surprise, the Fed captain learns of their plans and makes a pre-emptive strike. They weren;t expecting that, but why did they assume the Fed ship would still be there in the morning and not have simply left?

The "Fall of the Will". The Tholians, despite every previous subject species having rebelled, create the Seltorians to obey them. They give them a full range of ships and bases (starbases, dreadnoughts, battlecruisers). The need for bases is obvious, but did they need starbases? Their biggest threat were pirates, monsters, a few rag-tag armed freighters. If they needed the resources of a starbase, did they need to armed to take out a fleet? Did they need command rating 10 and 8 ships? Why did the Tholians not limit them to frigates, destroyers, light cruisers? The Tholians had plenty of command ships to assist if needed. Explanation? The Tholians simply did not believe the Seltorians would rebel. This not only cost the Tholians there empire, but almost the extinction of their entire species.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 - 10:41 am: Edit

The Klingons knew the Hydrans were still a threat the second time but they did not have the resources to do anything about it since they had wars to fight on other fronts.

"Surprise Reversed" was a planned invasion, not an attempt to ambush a single ship. The ship showed up and blasted them.

The Tholians thought they had finally worked out the subject race thing when they genetically engineered the Selts to do the job and be loyal. Their confidence seems logical even if it was misplaced.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Jon,

Then why did the Coalition not pursue their broken fleet into the Old Colonies Squadron and destroy them? Why did they allow them a retreat path to the Old Colonies Squadron? (Because we need them to switch focus to the Federation so they can be in the game).

The Romulan invasion plan called out for the specific destruction of ships. This squadrons target was the Lexington. Why didn't they park while cloaked? (Because we wouldn't have a story)

Does not explain why the Will allowed the Seltorians some of the items they did . They needed the Seltorians to do their tasks. I don't buy the Seltorians needed all they were given. Logic would dictate some precautions. (Because there would be no chance of a successful revolt and no Seltorians in the Milky Way).

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 - 01:20 pm: Edit

The Klingons did not pursue into the Old Colonies because it would have taken a large expedition to map it out and find them in the first place and they could not spare the ships. Bottling them up until they could force the Federation to peace terms seemed the better option. Once the Federation was gone (and the Kzinti likely conquered) they could take the time to start work on the Old Colonies (and the Kzinti Barony).

Because cloaks take a lot of power.

The Tholians did have a precaution. The same precaution that allowed them to subdue other previous favored servant races: the web. The only reason the revolt succeeded or was even started in the first place was that the Selts were able to turn their shield breakers into web breakers.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 - 01:36 pm: Edit

In the General War, the Klingons and Lyrans were fools on the Hydran Front. They should have already mapped out the Hydran Old Colonies before the war started given the history, and the fact that the Lyrans were right there. Of course the original plan was to take care of the Hydrans first, then the "cat animosity to other cats" gene kicked in.

Romulans and Tholians; Their mistakes showcase the arrogance of these two species towards all other species.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 - 01:46 pm: Edit

I imagine they would have if the original plan went through but the Lyrans went nuts over the Emperor's dead son and the timetable went to hell with the Lyrans attacking the Kzinti before the Klingons were even ready.

There is a bit of handwaving over the off-map areas being so secret. I find it hard to believe that it is easy to hide the locations of your colonies. You have to have merchant traffic going there. Can't you just capture a freighter that goes there every so often and get the charts?