Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Shrike-M Medium Dreadnought	2		10/07 03:30pm
	KB9R light battleship	2		10/07 03:32pm
	Cormorant Minesweeper	7		10/07 03:42pm
	K9H Heavy Dreadnought	8		10/08 04:20pm

As always my plug for this to be called "R13 Unique, Proposed and Never Were ships"

List of new ships?
ISC
1. Destroyer sized Patrol Carrier
2. National Guard Type Scout (from converted DD?)
3. Alternate small Q ship
4. Alternate large Q ship
5. Police PF to replace skiffs
6. Escorts optimized towards defending from the drone guys (D racks replacing some F torps?)
7. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

Gorn
8. DW based Patrol Carrier
9. Light CV comparable to Fed ADW (note this is a failed design due to PF development)
10. Alternate small Q ship
11. Alternate large Q ship
12. Police PF to replace skiffs
13. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS) NEEDED for Gorns?

Romulan
14. Destroyer based Patrol Carrier (F5, F6 or Skyhawk)
15. Early Kestrel type mini tug
16. F4 based scout
17. Alternate small Q ship
18. Police PF to replace skiffs
19. Alternate large Q ship
20. MurderHawk (killer hawk with D racks replacing F torps)
21. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS perhaps based on Snipe?)

Tholian
22. Destroyer sized Patrol Carrier
23. PC or DD based ship to act as a minimauler (Basically cored out to hold a phaser 4 with mauler arcs)
24. Conjectural CW or C with webcasters replacing some or all Photons/ Disruptors. Later years as WC become more readily available?
25. Alternate small Q ship
26. Alternate large Q ship
27. Police PF to replace skiffs
28. Neo Tholian DN PF collar
29. Neo Tholian CA/ CL scout collar
30. TK5P (F5 rear hull w/ Tholian built boom replacement) Perhaps with disruptors to P1?

Federation
31. DW based Patrol Carrier
32. Late Middle years drone bombardment ship (OCL based? DD based? A failed ship soon converted back to the original config?)
33. NCL based drone bombardment ship with a special sensor
34. Alternate small Q ship
35. Alternate large Q ship
36. Federation National Guard minitug based on the EY destroyer
37. Fed BCA. BCV with A20s
38. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

Klingon
39. DW based Patrol Carrier
40. Light CV comparable to Fed ADW (note this is a failed design due to PF development. Has special sensor? Converted soon to a light PFT?)
41. First DB ship (D4 based?)
42. Alternate small Q ship
43. Alternate large Q ship
44. Police PF to replace skiffs
45. F6V
46. F6 PFT
47. D4 or F4 based minitug
48. F6 minehunter (to compare to the Sparrowhawk minehunter)
49. F6 commando ship (to compare to the Sparrowhawk commando mission)
50. D3i
51. Specialist commando support ship (F5V or F4V specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

Lyran
52. DW based Patrol Carrier
53. Alternate small Q ship
54. Alternate large Q ship
55. Police PF to replace skiffs
56. Middle years replacement for LTT/ FFTs? Canon says they came late to the minitug concept and they need some way to move pallets around.
57. Lyran CL repaired by Klingons with D5 engines and struts. This thing would be a killer but too expensive and it would mean one less CL -> BC conversion.
58. Lyran Police PFT (from Crawford) as a more popular alternative to the Police CVE
59. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

LDR
60. DW based Patrol Carrier
61. Alternate small Q ship
62. Alternate large Q ship
63. Police PF to replace skiffs
64. Specialist commando support ship (MPV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

Kzinti
65. DW based Patrol Carrier
66. Light CV comparable to Fed ADW (note this is a failed design due to PF development)
67. Heavy Survey Cruiser
68. Light Survey Cruiser (based on a CL or CVL? Proposal already at ADB from McG)
69. Alternate small Q ship
70. Alternate large Q ship
71. Police PF to replace skiffs
72. Q ship before fighters were available (drones replace fighters?)
73. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

Vudar
74. DW based Patrol Carrier
75. Alternate small Q ship
76. Alternate large Q ship
77. Police PF to replace skiff
78. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

WYN
79. DW based Patrol Carrier (maybe a couple kinds?)
80. Alternate small Q ship
81. Alternate large Q ship
82. Police PF to replace skiffs

Hydran
83. Heavy Knight (comparable to LNH)
84. DW based Patrol Carrier
85. Alternate small Q ship. More fighters and less weapons?
86. Alternate large Q ship
87. Police PF to replace skiffs
88. Specialist commando support ship (FFV specialized to tote along GAS/ GBS)

Orion
89. LR based around a large Centerline weapon (like a G torp)
90. Pirate small Q ship
91. Pirate large Q ship
92. Specialist Ore Freighter based Q ship (basically it LOOKS like an Ore Freighter but is equal to a large Q ship…)
93. LR or CR based Patrol Carrier
94. Later years Orion National Guard Ships

Jindarian
95. Metal Hulled BCH
96. Metal Hull DNL (conjectural? For free campaigns?)

Seltoran
97. True DNL (conjectural? For free campaigns?)
98. True DN (conjectural? For free campaigns?)
99. True CVA or SCS (conjectural? For free campaigns?)

Generic
100. Half sized pods that can be active on a FFT/ DWT
101. Medium Freighter between the Large and Small sized. Has BOTH some integral storage space like a FT (say 12 spaces) and can also tote a pod.
102. Q ship that depends on PFs toted internally (basically a Q ship with the “pods space” replaced by an internally toted PF, 2 repair and a mech link). Special rules for recovery or launching?
103. Fighter & Bomber based recovery shuttles. Several capabilities:
a) Can tow fighters/ bombers of same or smaller size akin to the PF tow bar concept. Towed unit must eject all weapons / pods/ packs first
b) Designed to recover pois pods. Each size can pick up and tote the equivalent of 2 crews from that sized unit
c) units have lots of chaff and ew pods but little if any armament.
d) Based on the appropriate heavy fighter or med/ heavy bomber this unit has the speed to get in and get out fast.
104. Special pod thing that is basically a defsat with no weapons. Its basic use is to act as a transporter relay for ships that don’t care to show a planet a down shield. Can be set up in tactical time frames but is basically disposable (reattaching it is a pain, whatever). Size? ½ size pod/ PF sized (so it can be linked?)/ HTS sized (so it eats up lots of hanger space?) SIZE and Feasibility OPEN TO DEBATE
105. Qpod (from Alan Trevor, 2/1/10, R13 thread) Basically a pod for LTT or Freighters with the same deception systems as a Qship. Probably less capable than a true Qship as it is not hardwelded.
106. Q ship type ground bases. Alternately a way for a base to be hidden until the moment it fires. I would guess this could be just a BPV cost for the “refit?”
107. Ground Bases using armor instead of shields (from the Jindo model?)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 05:54 pm: Edit

MISSING VARIANTS OF THE F5W
Barton Pyle was not the only one who suggested doing the “missing” variants of the F5W war destroyer (scout, drone, minesweeper, commando, theater transport, penal, X-ship, leader). There is nothing wrong with this sort of proposal (i.e., take a hull and compare it to the list of common variants and look for “missing” ships). We could do these “obvious variants” any time we needed to fill pages, and no one would get design credit for them. (There is no “creativity” in comparing lists of variants. Barton didn’t expect design credits; he just wanted the better support ships available.) The history says that the Klingons used F5s (which were easier to build) for these support variants to conserve the inadequate production of F5W hulls for mainline combat, but then the F&E crew went and campaigned for the escort version (since F&E players always want their carrier groups to be one combat factor bigger than they are) which, some argued, opened a door for all of the others. It’s not impossible that one or more of these might appear at some point.

EVALUATION: Certainly doable. Might be selected for R13 once we start counting pages.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 06:12 pm: Edit

MISSING VARIANTS OF THE F6
When we did some variants of the F6 back in Captain’s Log #31 (I think it was 31), we specifically did not do a carrier variant (because it looked to use that the top-mounted engine meant that the hangar deck would be unmanagable) or a PFT variant (because the ship just looked to small to us). We could do them any time, if we needed to fill pages, but we’re not convinced that these are needed or worthy designs. Perhaps that will change in the future.

EVALUATION: Certainly doable. Might be selected for R13 once we start counting pages.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 09:39 am: Edit

I'd like a Romulan KDRL, leader variant of the KDR.

EVALUATION: could certainly be done.

Can we allow the Romulans to construct the KDR under license during the Andro war?

EVALUATION: oh, Hell no.