Gregory S. Flusche:

The Jindarians are a variable depending on the leadership of the given Caravan.

Sometimes they will share.

Sometimes they will not.

Sometimes they will stand and fight for a given mining operation.

Sometimes after an initial clash they will pull up stakes and leave.

What course the Jindarians take in a given situation is pretty much "at the needs of the plot, or the scenario, or the campaign."

See the Jindarian scenarios in Module C6 for a case where amicable sharing became something less amicable.

See (SJ4.0) for a background on Jindarians trading outside of their Caravan.

See (SJ9.0) for a background on Jindarians peacefully mining the same asteroid field as another empire, and a clash that left that field divided between them, and the Jindarians eventually leaving.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 11:39 am: Edit

George Duffy:

I believe the actual quote was something along the lines of "Win, or we will not get to hunt down and kill Tholians."

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Has it ever been established whether there is any sort of "higher authority" for the Jindarians, above the level of caravan? It's been a while since I looked at the Jindarian background material but I have a vague recollection that at various times different caravans have been observed cooperating with each other and at other times they have been observed fighting with each other. But I don't recall whether each caravan is completely sovereign or whether there exists some higher authority to which they nominally owe allegiance. Certainly there have been plenty of times in our own history in which different "states" were nominally subordinate to some higher authority but in practice acted independently if that higher authority lacked the power to compel obedience.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

While it has been established that there is some sort of general transfer of information (all KNOWN Caravans in the Alpha Octant appear to have produced fighters, bombers, Interceptors, fast patrol ships, and advanced technology at roughly the same time and otherwise identical in performance across the Caravans and at approximately the same time those units or systems were deployed by the empires of the Alpha Octant) there is no known central authority. Generally, unless a meeting is arranged, no one Caravan appears to even have any knowledge of where any other given Caravan is. Caravan A might know that Caravan B was at Site X, but in most cases this appears to be because Caravan A had grown too large and splintered into Caravan's A and B, other than that Caravan A has no idea where Caravan B is now (or where they were going other than a vague direction not the same as the one Caravan A took), and Caravan B has the same knowledge about Caravan A. If a meeting of Caravans is arranged, the same procedure holds once they leave the meeting site. It all goes back to that Jindarian paranoia about being found by someone, but even the Jindarians seem to have lost the knowledge of who they are hiding from over the millennia. So clashes normally occur when Caravan C moves to a new hide/mining site, and discovers that Caravan A is already there, and things are not resolved peacefully (perhaps because Caravan A and Caravan C are holding some kind of grudge).

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Maybe they're hiding from...

...the SELTORIANS!!

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 04:30 pm: Edit

While i am sure it is not Seltorians that the Jindarians are hiding from. It really may just be a racial thing. long lives and independent thinking. With close family ties. They live in tight family groups in relatively small spaces. Each group with its own form of government and living how they please.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 27, 2015 - 03:26 pm: Edit

I want to point out that even if a Seltorian-Jindarian story would not be fit for the cover of Captain's Log, it could still be used. We publish do the Seltorian-Juggernaut "Fire in the Deep" story.

Nor does it mean a Seltorian-Jindarian, or Seltorian-Andromedan, or Seltorian-Branthodon scenarios would not be published.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Friday, March 27, 2015 - 03:53 pm: Edit

I'll write it.

Just waiting on Sir Gregory.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Friday, March 27, 2015 - 05:52 pm: Edit

Well as real lifer has slowed me down i do have a good base for it all. I am playing it has i have with my friend. Problem is we do not have all the Seltorian stuff. However with klingons is great fun.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Saturday, March 28, 2015 - 05:22 pm: Edit

Steve should i post what i have here are send it to you? Have it almost done in the format you sent me other then cleaning it up and playing out with my friend it is about right in how i feel about the scenario.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, March 28, 2015 - 06:10 pm: Edit

You had best send it to me for a look. I can tweak format and ask initial questions.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, March 30, 2015 - 09:54 pm: Edit

SPP can you send me the format or whatever to make this scenario?

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 08:19 am: Edit

Greg, do you have a scenario for the Jindarians vs. Seltorians written up yet?

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 05:06 pm: Edit

I sent the write up to Steve. He sent me revision and then i reread and sent back. If You like i can send it to you?

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Thursday, April 09, 2015 - 05:45 pm: Edit

If it's ready for a story, I'm ready to write it.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 05:53 pm: Edit

In the vein of the Bargintine campaign, would there be interest in modeling the North Korean mess?

Perhaps quoting SVC in the real world military thread.. "the no good terrible horrible last option" scenario.

In a non historical alternate timeline, the Usurper launches his war of return too early. Easily defeated by the Kzintis, the WYN hex becomes the "hermit Empire".

Banishing the Orion's, (who never actually finish the ship yards in the WYN hex) the hermit empire can only produce early years ships, and become dependent on the kindness of the Lyran And Klingon empires. In this alternate history, the Kzintis tried two different times to invade, easily defeated each time by intervention by the Klingons and Lyrans.

By year 205, the hermit kingdom navy is obsolete, poor in crew quality, equipped with second hand Klingon fighters. (No bombers or PFs.)

Over the years, it has been revealed that large numbers of Kzintis have been kidnapped,taken to the hermit kingdom and forced to teach native WYN born racial kzintis how to "pass" as Kzintis.

In a desperate effort to maintain a strategic attack capacity, the Hermit Kingdom perfected (or said it was "close to perfecting") a xeno bio plague that was proven deadly to all major and minor empires in the alpha octant.

Diplomacy is widely seen to have failed.

The only remaining option is the "No good, terrible, horrible" direct attack on the hermit kingdom.

Can an invasion of the WYN/hermit Kingdom be successful? In year 205, what forces are available?

Will the Klingons or the Lyrans use the pretext of another Kzintis attack as an excuse to conduct their own operation? Would the major and minor empires of the alpha octant cooperate to prevent a quadrant wide plague?

How effective would the hermit kingdoms early years defenses prove to be when attacked by X fleets?

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 11:06 am: Edit

The scenario lacks the artillery threat of the real scenario. Maybe the WYN developed shielded long range drones that can survive the trip through the radiation zone and are trying to hold Kzinti border planets hostage with the threat of heavy bombardment. The Kzinti could block the threat to one planet or even a few but not all of them. Meanwhile the WYN keep converting more ships to drone bombardment platforms and the Klingons keep supplying them with long-range drones to modify.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 11:57 am: Edit

Or... just make it a scenario rule. An exception to the normal rule set. Or allow them to introduce a special drone with enhanced range and strategic movement capacity.

That last idea might be workable if the drones could be targeted by ships or PDU ground bases on the targeted planets.

I have to count the hexes, but f the Kzintis home world were with in range of this new scenario only drone type, it could reach several minor and major worlds in both the Klingon and Lyran empires, and a couple of independent worlds as well.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Having drones able to reach the Kzinti homeworld would be beyond alternate history and require rewriting the tech rules. Drone bombardment goes less than an F&E hex in range (in F&E drone bombardment occurs in the same hex). In addition the homeworld almost certainly has enough firepower between orbital bases, ground bases, fighters, bombers, PFs, and ships to make drone bombardment a waste of good drones.

I was thinking they could threaten to hit a bunch of minor planets and mining asteroids and the like along the WYN-Kzinti border. You could even take the radiation zone immune drones out and have the WYN use old ships converted to drone bombardment platforms that dip out of the zone, fire the drones, and then head home. While this kind of a drone attack cannot target bases directly it could devastate minor planets along the border with general destruction.

If you want to mimic the North Korea situation a bit make it a WMD threat and have some of the drones armed with bioweapons capable of destroying the targeted planet's ecosystem. Could make for a fun scenario where the Kzinti defender has to try to identify which drones are carrying the bioweapons.

You could make a mini-campaign out of it as the Kzinti has to secretly assign his limited defense assets to a number of targets and/or patrolling the edge of the zone and the WYN player chooses attacks. The more ships on patrol on the zone the greater the likelihood of being able to intercept enemy raiders but the fewer assets you have on defense at possible targets. If you go with WYN Radiation immume drones the patrol ships could instead detect the drones early and ships could engage them before they reach the target.

The Kzinti start with limited assets but quickly move more units in each campaign turn. Eventually the Federation (corollary to the United States) sends ships to assist. The end game could be an incursion into the cluster to wipe out the WYN.

If you want to go really nuts you set up diplomatic tracks showing Federation, Klingon, and Lyran support. Atrocities like bioweapons or massive planetary destruction against the Kzinti up Federation and Lyran support but lower Klingon support. Incursions into the WYN cluster up Klingon and Lyran support as they do not want the Kzinti to control the Zone. Lyran support would probably consist of ships that can raid along the border to support drone attacks (and possibly the bioweapons). Klingons would provide fewer ships but would probably supply drone frames.

Depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go I suppose.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Well, if its a campaign setting, it could be a variation on the admirals game.

have upto 7 players/sides and track ship losses.

eventually the WYN/hermit empire forces fail to have enough ships to oppose the allies.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 05:04 pm: Edit

I don't think the WYN have enough ships for the Admiral's game to need that many players. If you wanted to branch out you can have the Kzinti, Feds, Klingons, Lyrans, and WYN all have their own Victory Conditions.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 07:38 pm: Edit

Special drone raid (320.3) might be usable in the F&E context...

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Stewart:

Yes it might. That would reduce the scope of the scenario/campaign to a more manageable size, IWT.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Years later, but the hermit kingdom still survives.

Option: instead of a bio weapon that could infect/kill alpha octant inhabitants... what if the wyn cluster started developing a APT unmanned ship weapon?

Suppose this computer controlled "drone ship" (for lack of a better name...) could be programmed to seek out the star of planetary system... and by entering the stars hex, releases the infant star snake in the ships hold?

Star explodes killing the populated world and the rest of the star system with it.

Sure, there are problems with this approach, the established rules do not allow for such a thing...

But, the Hermit Kingdom could spend years developing such a device. Might even successfully destroy near by star systems. It would explain why the bordering empires would try to "buy off" the hermit kingdom. I.e. Keep them satisfied to enough to not deploy the sun snakes.

Worse yet, what if the Wyns started a sun snake hatchery?

That might be enough to unite all the closest empires to put a stop to the hermit kingdom.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Monday, October 07, 2019 - 04:10 pm: Edit

I am guessing that only a mature sun snake nearing the end of its life cycle can blow up a star.

The WYN also never struck me as having the most robust R&D program to develop this. Also, where do they get sun snakes? They have to be rare (or there would not be a lot of stars left). Can the snakes go through the WYN Zone? If not, that means they would have to hunt them outside and they would need a lot of them.