Thank you so much SPP !

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, September 27, 2019 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Stewart Frazier:

Incorrect. The drone reloads in cargo boxes are not restricted to drone bombardment and type-III drones. Rule (FD10.671) allows drone bombardment units on a bombardment mission to exceed the normal limits on type-III frames, but does not detract from the drone storage. See the SSD for the CBT in Module R2 or any other DB unit. The cargo boxes simply hold drone reloads. Note that the Kzinti Battle Pods while capable of the DB mission if on a tug and there are two of them, are not specifically "DB" units (Do not have the DB designation in their notes column). A Klingon D6D in combat can have its cargo boxes holding 200 spaces of drones, and they can all be type-I drones (or type-IV, or type-II, or type-V, or type-IM, or type-IVM, or type-IF, or type-IVF). They are simply proportional to what was purchased for the drone racks.

The "No reloads" for the type-D drone rack simply refers to their not using the normal reload system, but having multiple magazines. Look at the Kzinti BF, CMF, and NCF, each has type-D drone racks and a Cargo Box for 50 reload drones, but are not bombardment ships.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Friday, September 27, 2019 - 07:16 pm: Edit

Steve

So...if I am reading you right...The Kzinti Combat Tug....has 472 spaces of available drones? Since every space in a cargo box is available? So he can launch 6 drones a turn forever and reload scatter packs till his crew decide to quit from over work? Which is way different from most other ships which are limited to their expendables.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, September 27, 2019 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Charles Carroll:

The number is 272 spaces.

One magazine of a type-D drone rack holds four spaces.

There are three magazines in a type-D drone rack, which gets you to 12 spaces for one type-D drone rack.

The ship has (with two battle pods) six type-D drone racks which gets you to 72 spaces.

While the combat tug has eight (8) cargo boxes, it is allowed only two (2) cargo boxes of reload drones per battle pod, so only four (4) of the cargo boxes have reload drones (the other four can have drones too, but you will have to buy those individually). So four cargo boxes at 50 spaces each gets you to 200 spaces, added to the 72 spaces is 272 spaces.

So, yes, the ship can launch six drones a turn for 45.33 turns assuming no scatter-packs (reducing the number of turns) and no additional drones were purchased with Commander's Options (which might add a few turns) or are provided by other ships or bases or etc. And of course the drones might all be type-IVs, which reduces the number of turns to 22.66.

You might also look at the Kzinti DND (R5.75) which also has six type-D drone racks and does have 450 spaces of drones in cargo boxes for 522 spaces, or 87 turns of six type-I drones a turn, or 43.5 turns of six type-IV drones a turn.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, September 27, 2019 - 08:20 pm: Edit

edit

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Friday, September 27, 2019 - 10:23 pm: Edit

Ok thanks Steve....that just sounds...impossible. But then they are different in how they work....at least the Battle Tug is. But hey....different ships can do different things. That ship still has some restrictions. The main danger it presents is 8 Disruptors and 7 phaser 1s. Anyway thank you sir.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 28, 2019 - 01:44 pm: Edit

Charles Carroll:

A thing to remember is that the Combat Tug and Drone Dreadnought are not supposed to be "dueling" ships. They are supposed to show up in "fleet engagements," where six drones a turn is pretty much just part of what is going on. There are reasons why the Klingons have a lot of anti-drone racks, and the drone throw weight of these ships has an impact on those. You have to look at synergy, and there are just a lot of defenses against drones:

Anti-drone racks, special sensors, disruptors, drones, tractors, T-bombs, expanding sphere generators, that only work against drones, and some, phasers, wild weasels, that work against drones but also all other seeking weapons. In a long fleet battle you can reach a point where many of the drone defenses are largely exhausted (anti-drones, drones, T-bombs, wild weasels), but so is most of the offensive drone capacity (type-A, type-B, type-C drone racks found on most Kzinti ships). Which leaves phasers, disruptors, tractors, expanding sphere generators, and special sensors to deal with the continuing drone fire from these units. Such a large battle can still go either way despite the ability of these ships to launch a continuous stream of drones. You need to keep track of the fact that they will be launching those drones and so you will need to plan to defend against them while you are pounding through their supporting ships.

They will be doing the same to you, of course.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 28, 2019 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Note also that this Kzinti cargo thing is not something new. Look at the ship descriptions for most Kzinti dreadnoughts. For example, the original Kzinti dreadnought (R5.42) (admittedly created by "un-space control shiping" the space control ship) has 32 spaces of drones in its two type-C drone racks and four type-B drone racks, and 32 reload spaces, and 300 spaces in its cargo boxes. A total of 364 spaces, increased to 396 by the Y175 refit. What is lacking (compared to the DND per se) is that the racks are not type-D so it does not have the "sustained" launch rate. Well, it could, if it only launched four drones a turn. That is to say:

Turn #1: launch one drone each from B rack #1 and B rack #2, and two drones from C Rack #5.

Turn #2: launch one drone each from B rack #1 and B rack #2, and two drones from C Rack #5.

Turn #3: launch one drone each from B rack #3 and B rack #4, and two drones from C Rack #6. Reload two drones each into B rack #1, B rack #2, and C rack #5.

Turn #4: launch one drone each from B rack #3 and B rack #4, and two drones from C Rack #6. Reload two drones into C rack #5.

Turn #5: launch one drone each from B rack #1 and B rack #2, and two drones from C Rack #5. Reload two drones each into B rack #3, B rack #4, and C rack #6.

Turn #6: launch one drone each from B rack #1 and B rack #2, and two drones from C Rack #5. Reload two drones into C rack #6.

Then just keep repeating. Note, however, that this rate of launch pretty much requires the use of type-I drones in the type-C racks. You could use type-IV drones in the type-B racks and maintain a four drones per turn launch rate until all drones were expended. And, yes, this same drone launch rate could be used by just about every Kzinti "warship" after the Y175 refit, but a dreadnought has the cargo storage to sustain it. And the type-D drone racks on the DND mean its sustained six drones a turn launch rate could be all type-IV drones while the regular DN's sustained four drones a turn launch rate could at best be two type-Is and two type-IVs, and the DND can combine all six of its drones into one stack if it so chose, but the DN would have to really work at it to get all four of its drones in one stack (given the delay between launches of the type-C drone rack).

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Saturday, September 28, 2019 - 06:30 pm: Edit

Hi Steve

Can DefSat work in a nebula or they are treated as mines, which cannot be used in a nebula?

Marcel

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, September 28, 2019 - 07:04 pm: Edit

SPP, missed the Deployment entry with the CD but I didn't find it for the CBT (or BP) so what is the enabling rule for its cargo drones??

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 28, 2019 - 07:19 pm: Edit

Marcel Trahan:

DefSats can only be placed in orbit of a planetary body (R1.15G), They cannot be deployed during a scenario (there are no rules for doing so, and an absolute requirement that they must be in orbit around a planet or moon, and operate like captor mines which, although stationary, also cannot be deployed during a scenario). Even if you happened to have a small moon or planet within your nebula, DefSats must be in orbit, and are considered to be size class 7 (R1.15C). Which means when you set them to orbit the moon or planet you found in the nebula, 100 turns later they would be destroyed under (P6.73).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 28, 2019 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Stewart W. Frazier:

As noted in my previous response (although buried well within it) see the SSD for the CBT with battle pods in Module R2 which includes the following among its notes: "The Tug-C has two cargo boxes filled with drone reloads, 50 spaces per cargo box, for each P-B3 battle pod (a total of 200 spaces in this configuration)." The configuration, of course, is the Tug-C with two battle pods.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Sunday, September 29, 2019 - 10:33 pm: Edit

SPP, sorry, but that note is not on my copy of R2 but it's the '92 edition, nor in G3 under Annex #7N Drone Reloads …

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, September 30, 2019 - 12:47 pm: Edit

Stewart Frazier:

Sorry, I do not have a 1992 version to look at. The note is on the 2012 version.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Monday, September 30, 2019 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Ahhh, game evolution, gotta love it!

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Tuesday, October 01, 2019 - 08:29 am: Edit

How many seeking weapons weapons a drone using BMB or BHB can control?
Is it like the FGB-S and FGB-M (6 if drone using, otherwise 3)?

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, October 01, 2019 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Marcel,

Both have a V in the masters ship charts (control 6 if seeker using, otherwise 3). Note the BHB is also a scout.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, October 01, 2019 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Marcel Trahan:

Ground fighter bases are basically defined by (R1.28A), even if they are operating bombers.

If the fighters (or bombers) operating from the fighter ground base are armed with seeking weapons, the fighter ground base can control a number of seeking weapons equal to its sensor rating, despite the fact that the fighter ground base itself does not have any seeking weapons. If the fighters (or bombers) are not armed with seeking weapons, the fighter ground base can control a number of seeking weapons equal to half its sensor rating (the norm for a unit with no seeking weapons).

If the fighter ground base in question has a special sensor, then it can use that special sensor to control up to an additional six seeking weapons.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Tuesday, October 01, 2019 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Hey SPP, will that CBT drone note (on the SSD) be included with the battle pods on the MSSB update (since it could also apply to the TGT)??

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, October 01, 2019 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Stewart W. Frazier:

Perhaps you should put it in the Kzinti MSSB after action reports topic?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, October 02, 2019 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Good point.

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Monday, October 14, 2019 - 11:57 pm: Edit

Hi Steve

I have a few questions regarding a ships towing a moving enemy ship.

1) For HET, does the breakdown rating of the towing ship is reduce by 1?
2) If the towing ship suffer a breakdown, does it tumble automatically?
3) if the tractored ship was moving, does it recovers it movement since the tractor is broken by the breakdown?
4) Does a tumbling ship can still control its seeking weapons previously launched?


Marcel

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Marcel Trahan asked on October 14, 2019: I have a few questions regarding a ships towing a moving enemy ship.

1) For HET, does the breakdown rating of the towing ship is reduce by 1?
ANSWER: (G7.3222) The HET breakdown number (C6.51) is decreased by one for every ship (not including PFs or non-ship units) towed (i.e., held in a tractor beam); e.g., a rating of 4-6 becomes 3-6. A ship being towed (i.e., being held, even if it is the only one actually moving) is not subject to this penalty unless it is also tractoring a ship. The movement or non-movement of the ships is irrelevant; it is the question of which ship is generating the tractor beam that decides which is under the penalty. This applies only while actually linked by tractor; not after the tractor is released or broken.

2) If the towing ship suffer a breakdown, does it tumble automatically?
ANSWER: (G7.3223) If a breakdown occurs, the tractor link is broken and cannot be restored on the current turn. In addition to the damage resulting from the breakdown, the towing ship takes one point of internal damage, distributed directly by the DAC (D4.21), for each point of its practical speed (C2.411). For the remainder of the turn, the towed ship does not move, while the towing ship automatically tumbles (C6.55). Shuttles, fighters, and PFs do not count for purposes of this rule and are not affected by it.

3) if the tractored ship was moving, does it recovers it movement since the tractor is broken by the breakdown?
ANSWER:Breakdowns are resolved after movement in the Sequence of Play (Annex #2), so the released ship would not regain any movement point on the impulse the breakdown occurred.

4) Does a tumbling ship can still control its seeking weapons previously launched?
ANSWER: (C6.553) Ships that are tumbling are considered to be using Erratic Maneuvering (C10.0). Under (C10.0) you will find: (C10.512) A unit using EM cannot guide seeking weapons.

Hope the above helps.

By Charles Carroll (Carroll) on Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 05:16 pm: Edit

One last thought on that....does the bonus to het for first het still apply? Just to be sure here lol. I assume it does.

By Francois Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, October 15, 2019 - 09:20 pm: Edit

SPP,
Couple of follow up questions re Marcel's questions.
Re the tractoring ship breaking down, it applies the break down penalties and then additional damage due to the tractor link and failed HET attempt.

Is this 2 volleys or one ?

Re DERFACS, do Frax ships get DERFACS in Y166 ?
Do Frax disruptor ground bases [ or any non Klingon disruptor ground base] get DERFACS in Y166 ?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank