[ LOL ]

Yeah...it's probably the most politically incorrect set of words I think of.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 09:49 pm: Edit

I should have a 2X CC/CA ready to send Wed-Thursday. I wont have much spare time until Tuesday night anyway.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:24 pm: Edit

I've created a thread called "2X integrated proposals" for folks to put there stuff in when they finish it; that way, we can keep it together. I put my Fed proposal up earlier today, including four SSD's and all the systems info I could think of, along with my rationale for why I did what I did.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 12:41 am: Edit

Here is a new idea. A new box type. Smaller than a shuttle bay...a drouge Bay. Two on a cruiser. Includes one drouge each. Munitions must be purchased. Let me look up drouges for more details.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 03:34 am: Edit

You stole my idea. I was going to propose for Fed-unique technology a "drogue rack" where drogues have matured into remote-controlled fighters (assuming they aren't already there. My copy of J2 came in the mail and I haven't unpacked it yet)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 01:47 pm: Edit

You made a good buy John. After you read those drogue rules you'll see it differently, I imagin.

I basically imagin a small side bay, typically to each side or above or below depending on the ship design that is a small bay just big enough to get around and work on the drogue. They fit one drouge each and have the special tether each. Ships with a Drogue Bay (D-Bay or Drogue) would have one deck crew for each pair as part of their design.

I have determined it is too complicated to include the drogue in the ships BPV so I would say that if there is no drogue the the Drogue Bay is just a free shuttle hit. If you do buy a drogue to fit into a drogue bay it would be calculated as force points and not Comm. Ops.

There would also have to be X2 versions of the various drogues defined.

Additionally, a cargo capacity could be defined for the bay with no drogue. Perhaps 25 points?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 06:03 pm: Edit

I can deal with that.

Perhaps do this instead of expanding T-bomb deployment again.

I still like the idea of the Feds developing remote-controlled fighters.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Both those points are good John.

Maybe let the mighty XCC have T-Bomb alotments of a GW DN since that is, in a way, their function.

Fed RC fighters. Hmmm, could be smaller high speed scatterpacks with a couple phasers, type things. Or...howabouts...


Federation SAFE-X22 (Semi-Autonomous Fighter Enhancement):
Damage= 10+4 (4=shield).
Speed 30 (Has the Mega-Fighter qualities built in. There is no "M" version possible. No WBP).
Drones = 2 x special, 2 x Type VIII, 2 x Type IX.
Pods= 2
Chaff=4
Phaser=PH-G FA, Ph-6 360°
Notes: Two built in EW Pods (non-functional when crippled).

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 07:18 pm: Edit

I kinda liked the idea that the Feds installed one or two of these RC fighters on all ships instead of drone racks and used them to do the drone launching.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Then that would be a drogue for the most part. Except that a drogue is way less expensive. I mean, take a look at the illustration on the back of the J2 rules.

All ships can carry drogues.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 06:45 pm: Edit

I'm posting a new fighter in attrition units.

By Roger Dupuy (Rogerdupuy) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 03:05 pm: Edit

This is an element x2 design should include:

With many of the improvements in x2, there should be dangers associated with pushing these said improvments over the top.

Exerpts by those whom you may know:

By Loren Knight 1/11/03
"I need the ASIF on my designs because the Warp will generate more power(150%) but be most susseptable to damage when they do. A XCC will have 15 or16 warp boxs per engine. They take double damage when 'Hot'.
During combat you get all the power a Captain may want but after you are going to have to clean the hell out of them. However, if you never soup 'em up (as in the months between combat) they purr like a kitten for as long as you want!"

[Hot Warp takes double damage.]

By Christopher E. Fant on 1/11/03
"The Shields are bigger, but have a weakness. If a volly of 30 points comes in at one time against a shield, you roll a die. If a 6 is rolled, then the Generator burns out and you lose your shields."

[Big Shields, but can burn out.]

By Jeff Tonglet 2/1/03
"Another thought bouncing around, but I don't know which thread it fits in.
X2 should not be about designing gizmos that solve tactical problems for the players.
It should be about ships that are still fun and challenging to play.

For example,
·All 360 degree weapons
·Ships with heavy weapons covering all the arcs, so that maneuvering becomes secondary
·Phasers that do so much damage outside range 8 that all you have to do is approach, blast, game over.
·Heavy weapons that hit in the 1-6 bracket outside range 4. Getting in close is a problem in itself. Getting autohits from a ship further away means you got drones/plasma through the defences"

[X2 should not be about designing gizmos that solve tactical problems for the players.
It should be about ships that are still fun and challenging to play.] - Just re-quoted Jeff.

By michael john campbell on 2/4/03
"X2 ships should have more than 1 Achilles' heel. "

['nuff said]

By Shannon Nichols on 2/4/03
"Increasing warp engine power By 50% is to much.Your flying dreadnoughts at that power, not cruisers. Remember X-1 was too hard to mass produce in 205. So in 215 2X is going to be mass produced. Not very likely. Efficiency is a better way to go. Reduce the movement cost of the ships. Reduce the cost of EW. Make heavy weapons more effective By increasing damage out for power in. Reduce the powering cost of phasers.Or make them more powerful. But also reduce their number. By 205 the races will have had 25 years to get it right. If the 2X ships are not over powered it will give 0X ships a chance. An make it easier to balance the various generations of ships against each other."

[Let's stay away from F.A.T. "Freakishly All Too many boxes" SSDs, .]

By Shannon Nichols on 2/5/03
"Also if we go with smaller size/power 2X ships, it allows for easier future expansions. Selling SSD books is part of picture to."

[Having a GW heavy cruiser go toe to toe with a x2 frigate physically demonstrates the amazing advances of x2 tech.]


By Jeff Tonglet on 2/6/03
"Is it a cookie cutter to have everyone else the same BPV? No.
Is it cookie cutter if everyone has 10 ph-5, 4 heavy weapons, 15 C Hull, and 48 warp? Yes."

[an fellow member of the P.A.C. "Players against Cookiecutterism." ]

Mike Raper on 2/6/03:
Seriously, though, camp C is the most appealing to me as it provides new ships that are more flexible than 1X, but also somewhat more powerful... not By virtue of being bigger, but By being better. The same or less weapons, but better ones; that kind of approach."

[Mike R. is also a member of P.A.C.]

Aaron Gimblet on 2/12/03
"Hey, its a thought. Currently if you look at the SSDs, smaller ships are just like their larger cousins, only individually less capable. What if we made them functionally different?"

[So is Aaron G.]

Loren Knight on 2/13/03
"I'm hoping for a new challenge in the new X2. There should be new ways to fail miserably and new ways to win gloriously."

[my thoughts exactly!!]

Thanks for your patience.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 12:16 am: Edit

Please read the messages in the "Link to CL23 X1 changes" topic. Several SVC posts are reposted there which put a limit on how different and fresh we can be.

By Philippe Le Bas (Phil) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:19 am: Edit

I have some very crazy ideas about X-ships I have designed for my own F&E enjoyment.

Are you interseted to see them ?
Why do I ask that ? Because I would be interested to see SFB SSD of them.

A preview:
K-C7X 12-16/6-8 (note for non F&E players a K-DX is 13/7 and has a CR 10): X-battlecruiser based on C7; flagship of Dark shadow fleet; CR 11; max 1 in service. No more weaponry than a DX, better defense, the extra space is used for huge command capacities.

L-DNX 18/9: trimaran conversion of CCX. Conversion could be similar to CC=>DN

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 11:24 am: Edit

Phillipe,

Sure. If you like, I can make you an SSD of those. Email me the specifics, and I'll give it a spin.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 11:19 am: Edit

D.___.0 REPRODUCERS
D.___.01 Preamble
Second generations X ships have an onboard system that uses transporter tachnonogies to turn energy into matter and thus create any material whose details are outlined in the ship's central reporducer database.
These systems can produce any thing from a bowl of choclate-chip icecream to a positronic inverted phase induction coil.
The reproducers have an excellent quality in battle, they allow the Damage Control Teams to repair systems without using spare parts, but rather convert matter and antimatter in the matter/antimatter reactor, that powers the ship, into the parts they need.

D.___.1 Opperation
When the Reproducers are to be used for the repair of systems, the ship must power the divices and this tends to cost 1 point of power per SSD box to be repaired.
When the SSD box is repaired then the Damage Control teams will be busy with their tools ( and themselves ) repairing the boxes but certain restriction which are for the most part dependant on spares shall not be applied.
• SSD boxes repaired by damage control teams with the aid of reproduced parts shall not count as an SSD box repaired for the calculation of D9.76
• Due to advances in management X2 ships are also not limited by D9.741
• The damage control teams making repairs with reproduced parts are busy repairing the systems and can not be employed elsewhere, if CDR points are to be spent this turn they can not be spent by damage control points that are otherwise occupied.

D.___.2 Limitations
There are several limitation to the repair by Reproduced parts.
• Each SSD box to be repaired requires 1 point of power to be spent on making the parts.
• An uncontrolled ship does not have access to the contents of the central database and as such a ship that has lost all Control Boxes can not repair using reproduced parts.
• Sheild boxes can not be repaired with reproduced parts.
• One slight exception to the limitations is that the reproducers can manufacture continuos sectuions of girders and plating and as such the vessel is free to repair Excess Damage Boxes under the preproducers rules.

D.___.3 Shield Boxes
Due to advances in understand about the process of repairing shield boxes the ship may repair shield boxes by diverting Damage control Teams to the process of repairing Shield boxes.
The shield boxes do not count as SSD boxes for the purposess of CDR except that each sheild box to be repaired will reduce the availible Dam Con rating for the purposses of CDR that turn by 2 ( unless the sheild is to be repaired slowly with one point of Psuedo CDR being spent on each turn.
In this way the ship can repair sheild boxes per turn equal to half the Dam Con rating of the vessel FREE OF CHARGE.

D.___.4 Example
Using the proceedures of Reproducers involved in the repair, an X2 cruiser with a Dam Con of 8, could use ten point of power to repair 4 sheild boxes and begin repair of one Phot-torp and repair one transporter without spending any CDR points.


If a ship is willing to spend alittle power then the ship may never actually need to dip into it's CDR points until it becomes uncontrolled.
In case anyone hadn't noticed these REPRODUCERS could more commonly be refered to as replicators but lets not go there.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Interesting idea. perhaps unbalancing. perhaps a lightning rod for a Paramount "cease and desist lawsuit."

This is a massively upgraded repair box.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 09:48 pm: Edit

I'ld rather have Dam Con 6 without no D9.76 limitation even if I had to pay power for it than than have a regular Dam Con 8.
Partly because you can not spend more than 5 points on any one system in one turn meaning that even though you can not repair 8 points worths of Phot-torp in a turn the D9.75 restrictions mean you can not invest 4 points of CDR ythis turn in one Phot-torp and the other 4 points in the other and rebuild 2 phot-torps in two turns.
It's a descided bent in the game making life easier for GW frigates and harder for X2 cruisers.
8 Dam Con isn't much better than 6 if the current ruless remain.

Dam Con 8 on Two Photons.
First turn 5 points on Photon A.
Second Turn 3 Points of Photon A Finishing it and another 5 points on Photon B.
Third turn 3 points on Photon B.
Three turns to repair.

Dam Con 6 on Two Photons.
First Turn 5 points on photon A.
Second turn 3 points on Photon B finishing it and three points on photon B.
Third turn 5 points on Photon B.
Three turns to repair.

Going up to Dam Con 8 won't be as much of an improvement as 33%.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Going to 8 allows for 8 systems to be repaired rather than 6.

You did catch something I missed and would like to see the max number of repair points per turn raised by 1 (to six). This would allow the repair of a Ph-V in one turn. Currently a Ph-1 can be. For X2 the Ph-V should be as well, other wise the Ph-V becomes a hinderance.

I say a hinderence because if you reduce the number of phasers and can't repair them as fast it would become a tactical hinderence (albeit only a little).

(XG17.33) SECOND GENERATION LIMIT DURING ONE TURN: The amount of repaire points a X2 unit can apply to a system on a X2 unit is raised to 6 rather than 5. This reflects advances in modularization and redundancy built into X2 designs. In the case of an X2 unit repairing a previous generation unit the maximum amount of 5 remains. For a non-X2 unit repairing a X2 unit the cost is doubled and the maximum repair that can be applied is also 5.

Note: An 8 repair box is significantly better for EDR in that it can be divided into 4 and 4.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Suppose we integrate MJC's idea in suggesting that a ship can put power into their damcon = 1/2 damcon rating ange get that many repair points.

this would be outside normal CDR and not subject to the max boxes=Damcon limitation that CDR is.

The power of the system could be varied by allowing/disallowing it to work alongside alongside normal CDR.

At that point, a 6 damcon is fine is you can drop 3 points of power to make it effectively 9.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 09:50 pm: Edit

That would work.
But you'ld need to up the G17.33 limit to what ever the Ph-5 is.


I'ld also like to see the rule occompaied by some kind of minor damage repair system to shield boxes, E.G. free CDR for Shield Boxes every turn.
Whilst a free capasity that would effectively make an "undead" ship, it wouldn't be strong enough 3-4 shield boxes per turn, to actually ruin play balance.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 01:16 pm: Edit

I could go for that.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 10:56 am: Edit

D.___.5 Post scenario Repairs

Using the Reproducers is emencey powerful when dealing with the repair of a vessel.

The following multipliers apply to the following rules inplace of the multipler listed in those rules depending on whether or not the ship ended the scenario in a controlled or uncontrolled state.

Rule	Controlled	Uncontrolled.
D9.42	x 6	x 4
D9.43	x 5	x 3
D9.44	x 6	x 4
D9.45	Special	Na

Special systems are repaired as though the ship had an overhaul that does not incurr the overhaul penalty. If the ship was uncontrolled then the repair could not be made.


Furthermore the reproducers so greatlty aid the ship in repairs that the ship could repair all it's damage through the employment of a Psuedo Overhaul, which repairs all damage like an overhaul, can be done in deep space and does not coyunt as an overhaul for the purposes of the Overhaul penalty.
The Psuedo Overhaul can only be done once per overhaul, that after it is used, one need an overhaul to regain the ability do it.
E.g. an X2 ship in the Captains game could overhaul his ship three times, visiting space dock once and only pay for the one Overhaul penalty.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 01:11 pm: Edit

I just thought of where you would apply power to an ASIF on the EAF. On the Life Support row. Any power beyond Life Support is the power for the ASIF. So as a rule, you couldn't opperate an ASIF with out powering Life Support. This can fit with all the powered ASIF proposals and requires no change to the EAF.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Do you get an emerdency ASIF when you go to emergency life support.