Archive through December 14, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Rules Questions:
SFB Rules Q&A:
Archive through December 14, 2019
Regarding (J3.212) Wild Weasel post explosion period...(J3.2121) appears to indicate that a destroyed WW will continue to attract seeking weapons even after the 4 impulse explosion period. Is this a correct assessment?
Regarding Bill's question, yes. Seeking weapons will continue to target the WW hex unless the ship that launched the WW brings up its fire control or takes other actions that would violate the WW rules, such as a speed increase.
However, new seeking weapons launched at the ship after the post explosion period would indeed target the ship.
I do not know the correct answer to Majead's question. I await Petrick's official ruling.
(F3.5) Transfer of Control
(F3.53) Sequence:
(F3.531)
Under (F3.42) self-guiding seeking weapons (which includes type-VI drones as well as type-III frames and drones with ATG and all plasma torpedoes, and quantum wave torpedoes and any other self-guiding seeking weapon) is controlled by the launching shihp at the point of launch. So, yes, a wild weasel launched on the same impulse will attract all such seeking weapons because they do not gain their own lock-ons until the next lock-on step.
Most (but not all, obviously) self-guiding seeking weapons will still be distracted by a wild weasel even if they have their own lock-ons. The exceptions are the warp-seekers ( type-VI drones and plasma-K torpedoes). If these have gained their own lock-ons, they will ignore a wild weasel and continue to pursue their target, as long as they can retain their lock-ons (i.e., the target does not move out of their lock-on range, which might be because the target was displaced),.
sIf a War Bird tractors another War bird that is going speed 1. On imp 32 when speed 1 ships move what speed is the War birds going?
I thought one Impulse moves a ship 1 regardless of size class movement cost?
The SFBOL client changes the speed to 0.
Greg,
this may help (G7.36) B
Under (G7.36B) if both of the Warbirds had allocated a point of impulse to move one hex, the two Warbirds must agree that one (1) can use its allocated point of impulse power (assuming both allocated a point of impulse power for movement) to move the combination, the other point is ignored for all purposes (as if it were never generated). If the two ships do not agree that one can use its impulse power allocated for movement, than neither can. (Indeed, if Ship A had allocated for movement and Ship B had not, Ship B could use reserve impulse power to start moving itself to cancel the movement of Ship A, but note that the last Mid Turn Speed Change is on Impulse #28 and that is the last point this decision could be made).
However, Gregory S Flusche seems to be stating a case that Ship "A" is using a point of impulse power to move, and Ship "B" is not. Thus Ship "A's" allocated point of impulse power should suffice to move both ships one hex on Impulse #32. Whether the tractor beam was applied on Impulse #1 (or maintained over a turn break from the previous turn) or applied on Impulse #31, whether the tractor beam was applied by the moving ship or the non-moving ship, the two ships should move one (1) hex controlled by the ship which allocated a point of impulse to movement on Impulse #32, whether the two ships are allied or not.
Thank You SPP That is what I had thought. The client was changing the speed to 0. Even when i made sure i was using imp for movement. This will help a lot in the new campaign that is starting up.
More a statement I guess then a question.
Ship A launches a wild weasel
Ship B destroys wild weasel
Ship B has scatter pack drones 20 hexes away targeting ship A
Ship B who has launched and is guiding the drones then tractors ship A after the post explosion period of the wild weasel.
Drones 20 hexes away, launched and guided by ship B, for some reason, can't figure out the actual target is the ship being held in a tractor beam instead of the debris of a shuttle that died 20 impulses ago.
Further, Ship B could literally drag ship A at speed 15 a mile away from the wild weasel and yet the ship guiding the drones is unable to change their target to the ship they have in a tractor beam.
It all just seems weird to me.
Jack Taylor:
Drones are, compared to ships, even shuttles, very small and do not have a lot of space for computing power (and by definition, their computers are as cheap as possible since they are intended for very short operational life spans). So, yes, your ship can recognize that the ship that launched the wild weasel is now a separate target and you can tractor it now that the weasel is gone [something you could not do while the wild weasel was active (J3.452), or even during the explosion period (J3.2111)], the tiny computer brains of the seeking weapons (whether drones, plasma torpedoes, quantum wave torpedoes, tachyon missiles, etc.) need a more significant stimulus to go "oh, hey, that is our target over there."
Thanks Steve for taking the time to explain it all. Appreciate it.
The Orion Plasma Rack Refit (R8.R5) rule says a ship using the Romulan/Gorn/ISC territory can use this refit. As it says "can" does this mean that I do not have to take this refit and leave them as drone racks even for a R/G/I cartel ship? Furthermore if not required, are the drone racks not covered under (G15.441); that is not under the 10% limit?
Good question, John. While I'm no expert, if I were called for a ruling, I'd use the first line in rule section (FP10.0), "The plasma rack is a rapid-fire launcher for type-D plasma torpedoes, FIRST DEPLOYED IN Y165" (emphasis mine) to say that the Cirentus-Ta, Kublai, Omega, and Stardust cartels were well and formally established before plasma racks were invented, and, as such, those Orion ships equipped with with drone racks AS STANDARD EQUIPMENT (such as the wing drone racks on Salvage Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers) would NOT be treating those as "Outside of Operating Zone" equipment.
HOWEVER, any drone racks (per FD3.0) carried in Option Mounts WOULD count against the limits of rule (G15.441), even on ships with the wing mounted drone racks as standard equipment.
I do have one other caveat to that answer, though. In the cases of both ship types I brought up (I just happened to have my Advanced Missions SSD book handy 
), they have a Y175 Refit toat replaces their Type-A drone racks with Type-C. For the three Cartels whose operating zone is solely in Plasma space (the aforementioned Cirentus-Ta, Kublai, and Omega cartels), I would rule that they could NOT replace their Type-A drone racks with Type-C as standard equipment; instead they would be REQUIRED to replace them with (FP10.0) plasma racks.
HOWEVER, they would still have the option of mounting (FD3.0) drone racks in their option mounts, within the limits of rule (G15.441).
Again, if I were to be called on for a ruling. However, I'm often VERY wrong about such things, so please take what I've said here with a grain of salt.
John Wyszynski:
"Can" means it is optional, up to the choice of the player, not required.
Built in drone racks are not "option mounts," and do not count against the option mount limits, any more than the phasers of such a ship do.
Can someone please give me an explanation of the WYN Radiation Zone's effects, preferably with and example or two? I'm especially interested in how it affects shuttles, scatter packs, weasels, and drones with ATG.
Ginger McMurray:
In simple turns, for the first six turns after you emerge from the radiation zone (whether entering or exiting the cluster) your warp engine will produce less power. On the seventh turn they operate normally; see (P7.1).
All other power systems operate normally.
For the first nine turns your sensors are scrambled, making it difficult to get a lock on. No lock on, no non-self-guiding seeking weapon launches (seeking weapons cannot be launched before Turn #1, i.e., even though you are at WS-III you cannot pre-launch fast drones before the scenario begins). All self-guiding seeking weapons launched by a ship that goes to passive fire control operate under the same scrambled sensors as the ship they are launched from, e.g., if the ship's sensor rating it currently considered to be "2" due to the radiation effects, a self-guiding drone launched on passive fire control would have to roll a 1-2 to achieve a lock-on to the target, and also must adhere to the rules for both self-guiding seeking weapons (the target must be no more than 8 hexes away to achieve its own lock-on, and no closer than five hexes from the launching ship to be launched on passive fire control, and the ship MUST be on passive fire control).
Ships can roll up to three times in a turn to gain a lock-on while their sensors are scrambled, and if a lock-on is achieved, it lasts only that and the seven subsequent impulses. The exception is that any seeking weapon launched while the ship has a lock-on continues to be guided by that ship even if it has otherwise lost lock-on.
Control of seeking weapons cannot be transferred.
Scatter-Pack shuttles are very, VERY chance as you generally need a lock-on to launch them (except ballistic scatter packs of course), they take the entire lock-on period to get to the point where they can release their submunitions (eight impulses), and if you do not have a lock-on when the release (perhaps because you blew the second attempt at having a lock-on) ... Same thing if a ballistic scatter pack releases, no lock-on the drones are lost.
Wild weasels function normally as far as it goes.
Shuttles (which includes fighters), except wild weasels, cannot be launched until the fifth turn after leaving the zone (which you leave on Turn #1 unless special scenario rules say you left the zone earlier), which means you cannot launch them before Impulse #1 of Turn #6 (again, excepting wild weasels), and their fire control is also affected by the radiation effects.
See (P7.0) in Module C1 or the Master Rule Book.
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(P7.22) SEEKING WEAPONS: If a lock-on is achieved and a seeking weapon launched, the lock-on is retained (even into later turns) to that target for purposes of that seeking weapon (only) until:
- the seeking weapon is destroyed or hits the target,
- the lock-on is lost for some other reason (e.g. target goes behind a planet), or
- the next unsuccessful lock-on die roll.
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It's that last bullet that confuses me. If the drone maintains lock on, when would "the next unsuccessful lock-on die roll" be made? Would it only happen if the controlling ship wants to have a lock on after the 8 impulses are up? For example:
Impulse 3: Affected ship rolls for lock on and succeeds
Impulse 4: Affected ship launches drones at enemy #1
Impulse 11: Lock on is lost, but the drones targeting Enemy #1 maintain lock on and are still controlled by the effective ship (limited by its lower sensor rating)
Impulse 12: The enemy has a big stack of plasma headed in and the affected ship wants to shoot at it without the double range penalty, so it rolls for lock on.
- If this succeeds, the drones stay targeting enemy #1 and the plasma can be fired at normally.
- If it fails, the drones are no longer controlled and can be released to ATG (if they have it and assuming they make their own lock on roll). Also, the ship can still fire at the plasma, but the range is doubled because of the lack of lock on.
Impulse 21 (assumed lock on was maintained in impulse 12): Drones are still en route and locked on. A second enemy ship is now in range to fire, so the affected ship opts to try and return a salvo of its own. It rolls for lock on and fails. The drones are released to ATG (if they have it and assuming they make their own lock on roll). The affected ship can still fire at the enemy, but has to double the range and should probably have a busty blond blow on the dice for good luck.
Finally, is it possible to simply accept the range penalty and fire in impulse 21 without attempting a new lock on roll, thus guaranteeing that the drones stay on target?
(P7.223)Tactical Note: A ship with seeking weapons in flight that wishes to launch more or to fire direct-fire weapons faces a difficult choice. Without the die roll, weapons may be impossible to use or at a lesser effect, but making the die roll risks losing those seeking weapons in flight.
I have a question regarding F-7/G-7 shuttle/fighter.
Are they considered fighters or shuttles regarding the following rules?
- can they HET once per turn?
- can they HET to breack tractor?
- can they TAC?
- Can they use close combat maneouvring?
- can they be equiped with fighter pods?
- Do they get the 2 ECM and 2 ECCM like fighters?
- Can they be organized in squadron and receive EW from carrier?
- Is there a limit on how many F-7/G-7 a ship can carry (ie: Gorn CA could carry 6 of them?)
Should they be treated like a shuttle or a fighter, rules seems to indicate that they are shuttles. If treated like a fighter, i am questioning their low BPV cost, because with all the fighters functionality, their are even better then Klingon Z-1/Z-2 or Kzinti AAS at more then half their cost (including admin trade of).
Marcel
There is a reason when I have to invade the WYN Cluster with an adjacent empire I take Lyrans. ESGs do not need lock ons.
Ginger McMurray:
As I understand your query, Wayne Douglas Power has provided the answer.
If not, ask again.
Marcel Trahan:
The F-7/G-7 is a modified shuttle that has a glorious designation as a fighter, and the ability to use type-VI drones, bu is not otherwise a fighter. It is a shuttle, intended to replace shuttles on freighters for a little extra defense, not warships.
Hi Steve Petrick
To make sure that i understood well, F-7/G-7 have none of the ability of fighters with the exception of being able to carry T-VI/Pl-K and all the limitation of an admin shuttle?
Is there a limit on how many admin/GAS/other shuttles can be exchange for F-7/G-7 on a ship or in a fleet?
Marcel
FROM THE FEDERATION MASTER STARSHIP BOOK
(R2.F13) THE SHENYANG F-7: Developed as an independent venture by one of Earth’s largest manufacturers of standard admin shuttles [(J2.0)/(R1.F1)], the F-7 was intended to be a local defense fighter that could be produced cheaply and based on, literally, any ship. The F-7 was, in fact, an administrative shuttle that had been cut down to provide only two (cramped) seats (pilot and gunner), with space for an uncomplaining passenger in the gap between the tandem crew seats. The lower mass provided increased speed (nearly reaching normal fighter velocities) while the poor maneuverability was offset by the two phaser-3s being able to fire in a full 360° arc. Because it had the same footprint as a standard administrative shuttle and used many (over 80%) of the same parts, the F-7 could be carried in a standard shuttle bay on any ship that could carry admin shuttles (which was to say, any ship). There were no ready racks (J4.89) for the F-7; it was designed to refuel and recharge its phasers from the power connections designed for a standard shuttlecraft. The two type-VI drones had to be loaded by hand (J4.8962). The Shenyang Corporation boasted that it would sell thousands of these craft for use by Star Fleet, merchant ships, commercial platforms, and colony worlds, but in fact the market was limited and fewer than 2,000 were built during the entire General War. (Even that was enough to make Shenyang one of the most profitable of corporations.) If this fighter is carried in place of an admin shuttle, the type-VI drones, additional reloads for the type-VIs, and any pods for the fighter’s pod rails have to be individually purchased either as part of the overall force BPV, or with the unit’s Commander’s Option points. There are no free stores that come with the F-7.
The Gorns bought fewer than a dozen for tests and the Kzintis (who politely accepted samples as a gift) used them for target practice, regarding them only with disdain. The F-7 had almost fallen into obscurity when the invention of booster packs (J5.0) provided a brief resurgence in sales.
Due to the way the F-7 was built, the resulting "shuttle" could not be used for suicide (J2.22), scatter-pack (FD7.0) [exception, (FD7.44)], wild weasel (J3.0), or science (J2.212) missions, which is one reason why starship commanders were less than interested in it. (Another was the relatively low speed, which restricted starship maneuvers and required the ship to circle back to pick up the shuttle, or abandon the crew to capture by the enemy.) The F-7 did have two pod rails (J11.111).
While the F-7 was given an "F" designation by the Federation, it is a shuttle, not a fighter. A carrier cannot lend it electronic warfare (J4.9), nor is there an electronic warfare (R1.F7) variant able to lend electronic warfare to a "squadron" (J4.46). Even if an MRS (J8.0) [or SWAC (J9.0)] were to be included in a "squadron" of F-7s, it could not lend the squadron (or even a single "fighter" in the squadron) electronic warfare. F-7s can benefit from electronic warfare pods (J4.9) they are themselves carrying. F-7s can use warp booster packs (J5.0), but cannot use mega-packs (J16.0), and were often operated by remote control (J15.0) so that they could be abandoned without leaving behind their crews.
F-7A: Appearing in Y180, this was simply the F-7 incorporating the advanced shuttle technologies that rapidly spread across the Alpha Octant in that year. The F-7A is Speed 10 with 10 damage points and otherwise unchanged from the basic F-7.
No C-refit. No chaff prior to Y168.
Designed by Stephen V. Cole.
This fighter type always had one chaff pack, but was never equipped with a mega-pack.
SSD and counters are in Module J2.
FROM THE GORN MASTER STARSHIP BOOK
(R6.F11) SHENYANG-G-7 (G-7): The Confederation purchased a small number, records indicate less than a dozen, of the Federation Shenyang F-7 (R2.13) as a test. They did not adopt the fighter for general use. Players can experiment with the fighter under the assumption that large quantities were purchased for use in the defense of planets that simply were not worth the deployment of better defenses. As with many such plans, reality would intrude and some Shenyang G-7s would be found in the thick of the fighting on several occasions. Their 360° phaser armament would make them tricky for opposing fighters, but their weak plasma armament and low speed will leave them vulnerable to rapid destruction by larger units.
If this fighter is carried in place of an admin shuttle, the plasma-K torpedoes, additional reloads for the plasma-K torpedo rails, and any pods for the fighter’s pod rails have to be individually purchased either as part of the overall force BPV, or with the unit’s commander’s options points. There are no free stores that come with the Shenyang G-7.
Due to the way the base Shenyang F-7 was built, the resulting "shuttle" could not be used for suicide (J2.22), scatter-pack (FD7.0) [exception, (FD7.44)], wild weasel (J3.0), or science (J2.212) missions, which is one reason why starship commanders were less than interested in it. (Another was the relatively low speed, which restricted starship maneuvers and required the ship to circle back to pick up the shuttle, or abandon the crew to capture by the enemy.) The Shenyang G-7 did have two pod rails (J11.111).
While the Shenyang F-7 was given an "F" designation by the Federation, it is a shuttle, not a fighter. A carrier cannot lend it electronic warfare (J4.9), nor is there an electronic warfare (R1.F7) variant able to lend electronic warfare to a "squadron" (J4.46). Even if an MRS (J8.0) [or SWAC (J9.0)] were to be included in a "squadron" of F-7s, it could not lend the squadron (or even a single "fighter" in the squadron) electronic warfare. Shenyang F-7s (and the Shenyang G-7 variant) can benefit from electronic warfare pods (J4.9) they are themselves carrying. Shenyang G-7s can use warp booster packs (J5.0), but cannot use mega-packs (J16.0), and were often operated by remote control (J15.0) so that they could be abandoned without leaving behind their crews.
(R6.F11A) ADVANCED SHENYANG G-7A (G-7A): Had Shenyang G-7s been adopted and remained in service in Y180, they would have undoubtedly incorporated the advanced shuttle technologies that rapidly spread across the Alpha Octant in that year. The Shenyang G-7A is Speed 10 with 10 damage points and two chaff packs; it is otherwise unchanged from the basic Shenyang G-7.
There was no electronic warfare variant of this "fighter."
No C-refit (R1.F8). No chaff prior to Y168.
Designed by Stephen V. Cole.
No chaff packs (D11.0) prior to Y168, one until Y180, and two thereafter. No mega-pack was ever developed for this fighter. The fighter can launch one plasma torpedo per turn, but not within a quarter turn of launching a previous plasma torpedo (J4.28).
An SSD for a "squadron" of Shenyang F-7s was in Module J2, and could be used for the Shenyang G-7 by treating the type-VI drone icons as plasma-K torpedoes. There are otherwise no SSDs except the graphics above; use the Gorn fighter counters from Module J.
There is no rule limit on exchanging shuttles, just a trade in abilities. That is to say that if you swap out the shuttles, you gain double phasers and the ability to launch type-VI drones/plasma-Ks, but lose the ability to launch a wild weasel or suicide shuttle.
Your biggest problem is that non-carriers do not have more than the two deck crews provided by (J4.814), and cannot purchase additional deck crews with Commander's Option points, and it would be very hard for the two deck crews to put drones/plasma-Ks on all six of the "fighters" in a timely manner.
And note that you have to buy all their supplies out of your Commander's Options, which means they are not likely to have much.
Thanks Steve
Really appreciated
Clear and complete :-)
Marcel
Hi Steve,
I have a question regarding QWT's and planet.
An ISC ships has QWT's targeted on him which are still control by its Pavarian launching unit. The ISC ship moves in such a way that it gets the planet between the QWT's and himself while still remaining within the LOS on the Pavarian Ship. Does the QTW's still retain lockon on the ISC ships even if the LOS is blocked by the planet or the QWT's can go around, still tracking the ISC because the launching unit still has lockon to the ship?
Marcel