Note that being speed 12, you cannot make a line 18 drones long in one turn (unless you mean for some drones to arrive on the same impulse which may have clumping issues occur later).

I forget how many ships were on each side, but there are significant numbers.

Something like 7-8 per side? It's all fuzzy now.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Richard:

Correct. Not ideal, but we are talking about a year 138 scenario. Just means every other hex would have 2 drones instead of 1.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 10:04 am: Edit

It would be better to scatter drones to not (at least initially) have them in the same hex.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 10:42 am: Edit

Agreed, hence the suggestion to deploy the drones in columns or rows.

In passing, it should also be mentioned that the launching ships needed to move with drones as they are launched, in order to have the first wave bunched up with 18 drones. (Alternatively, a dogleg flight plan could be used, but as ballisticly launched drones would consume one or more way points, it would limit how many could be used late in the flight when on map.)

Speed 32 IIIXX drones, could not be launched in a row pattern unless a dogleg was used. Timing of a drone wall can be challenging.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Scenario Info for those that don't have it.

Fed Forces: Base Station with three cargo pods, OCA, CL, DDM, DDM, FF, FF, POL, POL. WS III, speed 10, within 5 hexes of base.

Kzinti: CS, CL, CL, CL, FF, FF, FF, CLG, Speed Max, WS III, enter 01xx or 02xx.

Drone Bombardment: Waves of 18, 6, 6. On the Turn of arrival, drone has 36 moves remaining, counting from impulse 1 of the turn of arrival, irrespective of the impulse it actually arrives on the map. All have explosive modules, all will only accept the base as a target. No Waypoints remaining. Arrives on 01xx heading B or C.

Year 138: Tractors range 2, transporters range 4, Detection radius of t-bombs is zero (and only cost 3).

Commanders options is only 10%, not 20%. Not sure if this is a year 138 restriction, typo or intentional.

We did a quick count. Feds have the edge in direct fire with 17 photons versus 11 rupters, 36 P1s versus 17. Kzinti can control 54 drones, though only 18 drone racks. Would need SPs to reach 54 drones.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 02:55 pm: Edit

With no waypoint, DB drones can't go beyond base can come back. I did take a map out, and they can be moved such to hit the top, bottom, and 2 flank shields.

Everyone aggress to stagger the impulses. Having all 18 reach range 8 before the first one hits the base would allow 1 WW to take them all out.

Spread them out or Congo line?
To minimize t-bomb damage, they need to be 3 hexes apart.

Can't do that in a congo line with speed 12. Simply aren't enough impulses. Maybe two lines 3 hexes apart?

Spreading them out involves determining a Entry Hex and a Target hex within 8 of the base, that is basically in a straight line. And of course moving them all.

Did I miss anything?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Keep in mind that collateral damage will damage the base even if a WW is deployed if you destroy the WW beforer it leaves the base's hex.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 03:32 pm: Edit

I can force a WW launch with drone ships and SPs. I'd rather not use the DB drones to force a WW as I can't guarantee getting to the WWs before they move.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Does the Fed weapons include the base and its weapons P4, Photons and P3? Plus channels breaking lock ons

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 06:02 pm: Edit

I believe the Kzinti in this scenario can easily move to range 15 or less to the base before any DBB drones get to range eight from the base, so killing wild weasels in theory should not be too much of an issue.

Other than perhaps the defending ships making such movement problematic.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Plus 20 shuttles on the ships each with a phaser 3 waiting to defend the base

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Any scatter pack launched at rng 15 or less will disappear to scout channels

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 06:30 pm: Edit

the FFs only have rng 15 disr, the rest rhn 22, no very little threat. Rng 15 4 P4 can do internals on a KZ frigate.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Yes, it's going to be a bloody battle as the map is fixed.

Hypothetically the Kzintis can get to range zero of the base on turn one and go for point blank drone launches.

Presuming the Fed ships don't do something about that.

Possibly doing something about that might let drones get through as a consequence.

I imagine things could get... complicated.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 07:32 pm: Edit

One should hope that the commanders options are not spent on a minefield otherwiae the KZ ships may suffer major damage before ever engaging, and FF taking a 35 pointer would not last long.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 07:37 pm: Edit

I don't think you can purchase a minefield package with commander option points.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Check Annex 6A Other optional items available and the reference to M 6.3

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 10:16 pm: Edit

You can do the checking, np.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 12:45 am: Edit

Eddie: The quick count of Fed weapons did not include the base as we weren't sure what it had in its option mounts in Y138. P3s weren't counted either as both sides have a lot.

Yep, the feds mentioned the idea of launching all their shuttles for their P3s. In the same breathe, it was mentioned they are as vulnerable to t-bomb explosions as the drones are.

Yep, scout channels were mentioned as both sides have some. Typically, we don't play with EW rules as it slows things down, but have to in this one. My first disappoint was ECM drones weren't invented yet.

Kzinti side isn't impressed with range nor arc of their Disrupters. Its obvious they spent too much time fighting amongst themselves...

I did look up 6A, M6.3 and S2.3 and didn't see any indication you can purchase a mine field with commanders options. Sounds like a discussion you've had with others. I am not sure the fed DDMs are mine sweepers/layers as I only have the Kzinti SSDs handy and early years had some unique designations.

If a minefield shows up, Kzinti leave, cursing their intelligence department.

*********

Richard: Your comment "Other than perhaps the defending ships making such movement problematic." and this one "Presuming the Fed ships don't do something about that" are keys to a lot of potential tactics the Kzinti could use against the base. Leads to the follow up idea of focusing on the pesky Fed fleet, which the DB Drones aren't going to help with.

Its been my experience, Bases with are damage sponges, especially with 3 cargo modules attached. Sure collateral damage is better than no damage, but its just a start of the damage we need to do to the base. Focusing on the base too early is going to leave me with a gutted fleet.

Modified victory conditions mean I don't have to touch the base at all to win....but the bonus points for doing so (107 if its destroyed, 214 if captured) sure would be nice.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 01:07 am: Edit

DDMs are middle years DDs

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 06:31 am: Edit

Nerfed. Each DDM only has two photons instead of the four normally found on a vanilla DD.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 09:28 am: Edit

I think techinically DDMs are the vanilla DDs.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 10:15 am: Edit

There is another way the base can survive the drones, launch the weasel, land it on one of the police ships, that voids the weasel and makes the ship the target. J3.25

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Again, the Kzinti should kill the WW as soon as it is launched, if they can (if range is 15 or less, they probably can). Good tactic though.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 02:35 pm: Edit

Keep in mind that a unit launching a wild weasel gets to choose which of its six shield facings the weasel is launched into and thus the direction from which any collateral damage will be scored. So if the enemy is in direction A, launch the weasel in direction D. On a base, this means that the shield will almost surely rotate to face the enemy at some point, but at least you can put off the damage to some extent.